Romance in Macross (Take 2)

[Thess]

Originally Posted by kujoe

To me, the whole "Alto is better in the kitchen than Sheryl" bit is a throwback to the domestic life of Max and Millia. Guess who's the blue haired pilot who's better at cooking?

I love those scenes in the original TV series. Good call.

Edit:

Originally Posted by Dash_Hunter

Here's proof that Sheryl knows how to cook, from her official blog that someone translated in a thread here:


And here's a bit of another one where Sheryl plans to make lunch for her friends at Mihoshi:

So now, can we please stop this nonsense? it doesn't matter which girl cooks better or which makes Alto looks taller and manlier (), those factors are almost meaningless when a guy decides to start a relationship with a girl.

Yes, I was going to point this out, but I lost the entries. Sheryl knows how to cook, her failure is due to her illness and an opportunity to look moe (by the production).

She is someone who prefers to learn all the skills and not be dependent of people (including flying?), even if it does not go as planned (see becoming a pilot as example). Cooking is an elemental skill, not to be a "good housewife", but to survive in some situations (like, um, say when she was roaming homeless and looking for food in trash cans?). That must have put cooking on her list of priorities.

[magnuskn]

Originally Posted by Thess

Like Alto/Sheryl pushing?

Here is the thing, you don't need to reply when I mention it. It's getting a little bit annoying.

Yeah, but I am not the person making a pretty obvious push to try to force that crack relationship into fanon.

[Thess]

Originally Posted by magnuskn

Yeah, but I am not the person making a pretty obvious push to try to force that crack relationship into fanon.

Neither am I. The production did that before me. Just go and count how many spreads have each pairing.

[magnuskn]

Originally Posted by Thess

Neither am I. The production did that before me. Just go and count how many spreads have each pairing.

I think if we count all official sources, we'd end up with the three mains. As for the last years since then, who knows? I am certainly not going to waste hours trying to hunt down images.

As for "neither am I", you've been trying to push it since you arrived here.

[cheesie]

It would appear that nearly all of the H.M.S Skull Fairy crew, with the exception of Tak, are semes of every archtype.

As you can see, all of you have testified the ups and downs as you forged bonds with your fellow seme species. But when one of us falls down, we fall with them. When one of us rejoices, we rejoice with them. When one of them prances around in a two-year-old stained dress, we bitchslap them, sigh and bitchslap them again. The power of love and unity has sustained us, and will continue to do so in the frontlines.

As ship captain, I order you all to silence yourselves if you're itching to claw at one another. It's either this, or kiss and make up, because clearly, all of you are suffering withdrawals from not having any whimpering ukes to play with. Don't worry, there is more than enough of Tak to go around, no matter how weird your seme kinks are. Actually, if they're very disturbing, please keep it to yourself, I don't want to know.

[magnuskn]

Originally Posted by cheesie

Actually, if they're very disturbing, please keep it to yourself, I don't want to know.

Really? Because I am developing this rad Bilrer/Leon/Minmay fetish...

[raile]

Originally Posted by magnuskn

Really? Because I am developing this rad Bilrer/Leon/Minmay fetish...

The captain just said to keep it to yourself!

[magnuskn]

Originally Posted by raile

The captain just said to keep it to yourself!

But... but... their cranial mutations and those secret smiles they trade with each other! Let me mention it now forevermore in every second post I make, no matter about what it is!

[wisteria233]

Originally Posted by LoveMeKags

She has a hard time concentrating, yes. But I was referring to after dinner, she once again returns to that despair. And that brings Alto down, notice his upset expression.

She was drunk, and once again she wasn't unhappy, and Alto was worried because it wasn't like her, and its the first time he's ever seen her drunk.

Um, another thing I might mention, perhaps it's because it was HER who tasted it. Her taste buds might be different than Alto's. As I recall, he eats the tuna buns and they are fine to him but she states they are salty. So, I think it depends on the taste buds. Plus, given the circumstances, she never could've asked Alto to cook with her because it was a present for him. Once again, Nanase gives her the recipe but she shapes them as airplanes, which might've taken away the flavor because she wanted them to be perfect. She was baking her love into the cookies but forgot to add less of something. And actually, she says "bitter."

A salty cookie is a salty cookie, the only way that that tastes good is if the other ingredients in the cookie itself complement the bitterness. Shaping a cookie also doesn't change it flavor (has actually baked cookies from scratch so knows what she's talking about). You don't use the same ingredients for a normal cookie to make a bitter one. If Ranka says their bitter then they're bitter there is no way around it.

Trust me, I am. My mom does EVERYTHING for my dad who just lazies around even though being retired and having no excuse. There ARE men who just DO that.

If you think that that's the only thing that keeps the relationship between your parents going then you sourly mistaken. Yes, there are men who just do that, but that isn't true for all men. Not all men are like your father, my uncle for instance loves to cook, in fact all of my uncles are better at cooking than their wives/girlfriends and yet they're still together. My uncle and aunt have been married for 30+ years and he's much better at domestic chores than she is and that yet doesn't hamper their relationship.

There takes more things to make to a relationship work than just being with the perfect housewife.

Once again, was not attacking, nor was I saying that the woman had to be a housewife ALL the time, just that she should be able to live by herself. And considering that Ozma vanishes after the war and Ranka is living BY HERSELF, she is still pretty healthy and is going along fine (not her emotions but her physical being). Meanwhile, Sheryl had to get aid from the Saotome household, for she could've moved out RIGHT AFTER Alto came over, but she ends up staying there for a while. This proved she wasn't ready to be independent.

But you're comment is still misogynist, want to why? Because your insulting other women (and men as well) by essentially saying that they can only be in a long term relationship if they are the perfect housewives, and that men should only be attracted to that type. Also Ozma never vanished until Ranka left Frontier. Case in point at the beginning of the series Ranka thought that he only had a desk job at SMS, so you're once again getting the events of the series mixed up. And even then he most likely already paid all of the bills so there was nothing to worry about. Besides that Ranka is supposed to be 16 it isn't out of the ordinary nor is it special that she can take care of herself for a few days. Sheryl was also sick, weak, and on her death bed, so your comparison fails. When you are sick it is much harder to take care of yourself, because it saps your strength to simply move around, and cooking no matter how good you are at it is much harder, because of the heat. Also Sheryl was going through emotional turmoil in addition to her sickness, plus the fact that she does in fact find her own apartment and ends up living alone anyway, also negates your point. Meanwhile Ranka never lives alone nor does she have that responsibility so your point is also negated by that.

Grace does quite a lot for her, considering she makes the schedules, cares for her in sickness (understandable), and even does all of the arrangements when it comes to concerts, battles, even her school. Grace does a lot of decision making FOR Sheryl, making her seem less independent.

Because Grace is Sheryl's manager and that's what a manager does, Grace also raised Sheryl. Grace also didn't do all of Sheryl's decision making, she became hands off of Sheryl's career after the success of Sheryl's first single (Pink Monsoon - Nyan Dora 3). Even the most independent singer tends to have a manager, especially if they're famous. A famous singer's schedule is twice as long your own and much more convoluted. Also Grace did have a hands off way of raising Sheryl, which was why Sheryl in series was used to relying on herself. Not to forget that Sheryl was homeless and by herself for years so she does know how to live on her own (simply because she had to). So you're crusade to try to make Sheryl seem more dependent is failing more than Sheryl's attempt to pilot during a dogfight after only a few months of learning.

She doesn't own a Black Vega card IN the series, but in the movie. I've never seen her reveal that card or talk about it in the series to my recollection. She makes money off of royalties... probably. However, Sheryl working on her piloting isn't actually shown after Ep8, just exaggerated that she learned something in Ep14 (poor flying compared to Alto who'd never flown in his life in Ep1 with a Valkyrie yet managed to do REALLY well).

Why would Sheryl bring up her black Vega card, in series? If she did then she'd just be flaunting her own riches. Singers especially popular singers make a lot of money just off of royalties alone even after they stop singing. Plus Sheryl is a singer of intergalactic fame, so her being very wealthy is a given, and Sheryl was still able to afford her apartment and live alone for a few months (eg: much longer than Ranka by the way). Also Alto has been in flight school for a much longer time than Sheryl was, and he was still shot down in the first episode, he did mention that the controls were similar to his what he was given in school. It also helps that Alto is at the top of his class in this area. He probably has flown a different model at school so once again your again to make Sheryl look bad is negated by the series itself.

I wasn't saying she made lots of money, that wasn't even implied. And once again, she IS cooking in Ep5, so she does know how to cook. Maybe not that recipe though.

That still doesn't mean that she can make a living off of it.

Doesn't matter as you can't get a higher paying job just by knowing how to cook. If you want to be a cook in a restaurant that pays well for it, then you have to be a professional chef. So you're point is still negated.

Agreed, but also, the high rate for divorce also goes towards molestation of children and other things.

No it doesn't. The top ten reasons for divorce are...

Spoiler for for length:

1. Lack of commitment towards marriage, sexual incompatibility and infidelity
Commitment may be lacking in one of the partners because marriage happens not always out of love. It could be seen as making a good deal and when it is found that the deal is not what he or she expected divorce happens. Besides, people looking for quick solutions cannot sustain marriage for long.

Philandering habits die hard and this leads to infidelity. People with uncontrollable libido or unhappy with his or her partner cannot be loyal to their partners. So when the wife or husband comes to know of his or her partner cheating on him or her divorce turns out to be the answer. The question that arises is when to divorce.

2. Lack of communication between spouses
Without communication no relationship can be effective. Keeping your resentments simmering within, your partner does not come to know what is happening with you and this is likely to create distance between you and your partner.

3.Abandonment, Alcohol Addiction, Substance Abuse
When one of the partners deserts his or her partner for quite some time or a longer period divorce emerges as the answer. One leaves his or her partner because of the latter’s bad habits.

Alcohol addiction and abuse prevent marital bliss because of the change in behavior pattern which makes an adverse impact upon mental peace and physical security.

4. Physical Abuse, Sexual Abuse and Emotional Abuse
These abuses are not uncommon and tolerating them is not good and a person who loves himself or herself would not put with such abuses.

5.Inability to manage or resolve conflict
Lack of maturity disables one to manage conflicts and handle personality differences or ‘irreconcilable differences’

6.Differences in personal and career goals
People who cohabit before marriage have higher rates of divorce than people who didn’t cohabit before marriage because differences become gigantic in course of time. Initial comfort before marriage was imagined to take things ahead in future but in reality it does not happen.

7. Different expectations about household tasks and financial problems
When expectations do not match it affects relationships most. This leads to personality conflict because none of them are willing to do things or are ready to sacrifice their time and comfort.

Because what one wants the other to do, the other does not do there is dissatisfaction and frustration. In such instances love becomes sour. This exacerbates with financial problems because material needs remain unfulfilled and creates discontent in the minds of both the partners as one cannot give and feels humiliated and the other is frustrated because of long standing inconveniences.

8. Intellectual Incompatibility and Inflexibility
Intellectual incompatibility creates misunderstandings. And the smarter person feels frustrated while the less intelligent partner is mad about not reaching the level of intelligence of the other and makes life miserable for himself or herself and for the others also.

9. Mental Instability or Mental Illness
Insanity does not allow space for normal communication.

10. Religious beliefs, cultural and lifestyle differences
Cultural values clash unless we are highly adaptive in nature. Orthodoxy leads to intolerance and conservatism gags the spontaneity of life. So this leads to divorce after some time of marriage

Notice how none of those reasons include the wives not being able to cook. Also its not that the amount of child molesters have increased its that governments make a bigger effort to get rid of them now, so its reported more. There is a difference.

But once again, independence is a lot of roles pushed into one.

No independence is the ability to survive on your own. You can be a housewife and not be independent in fact its not uncommon for a housewife to be dependent on their husband, and unable to survive when said husband dies or divorces her. You can survive on your own and not be able to cook.

For one, Ranka actually excels at something Sheryl does not: cooking. If she can cook and find it edible to herself, then she can live off it, this shows independence if Ozma dies. She also knows how to work "low" jobs like being a waitress, a janitor (as she knows how to clean), and a model (for the higher jobs). If she didn't have her career by the end, she WOULD be able to support herself. And as I can understand, Ozma is not paid very much. (I'm not sure but he mentions the service he's in doesn't give lots of benefits.)

It is never stated that Ranka excels at cooking, and in order to cook you first need to be able to afford the ingredients. Low paying like waitressing doesn't allow for one to make much money, and neither does janitorial work, which isn't connected to waitressing at all, so your comparison is love. Nor is it considered a skill, that will net you a stable job. Cause face it waitressing is not a stable job. Also it was never shown that Ranka makes those Tuna buns only that she got them from her part time job.

Sheryl, however, does not show this. She is NOT cooking but cutting the lettuce for Alto's soup, which he is stirring. If she does know how to cook, then she certainly doesn't show it in the series. She lacks certain things that would help her be independent if she lost everyone, including Alto, and was left to fend for herself. She is not quite aware of how to go about being a "poor" person like Ranka is. She can't work a job like being a waitress because her pride won't allow it. She, in a lot of ways, takes her OWN steps back from certain areas of independence.

In supplemental material it was stated that she could, and when she was cooking with Alto they were making Japanese dishes, which can be hard for someone to make if they are not used to it, because the preparation is different. Seriously not only are you being misogynist but you're comments make it obvious that you know nothing about cooking. Sheryl also makes enough money to not worry about those things, though with Sheryl she could still join the military. Though waitressing isn't a skill, and it won't a stable job, either so your analogy is lost. Sheryl is also a singer/songwriter, so even if she stops singing she could probably make money off of writing her songs. Also Sheryl and Ranka are 17 and 16 respectively its stupid to think that neither or them won't learn any other skills later on in their lives. As both of them are only in High School.

No, I was talking about foreshadowing that Alto and Sheryl met as children in the series as well. Doesn't it seem a little bit weird that Sheryl seems to be familiar with Alto throughout her entire meeting him? I thought that was a little foreshadowing to the movie's: they met as children.

They only met once and Alto was Sheryl's inspiration. Its also probable that she kept tabs on what was going on with him, and knew that he exited the world of Kabuki.

[raile]

Ugh. Why are you women posting in the boards?! Get back in the kitchen and make me a sandwich!

()

In any case, LoveMeKags is clearly just grasping at straws. And no matter how much you can try and make Sheryl look clingy, un-housewifey (of all the misogynistic things) , doesn't change the fact who Alto loves. Here's a hint: Not your Mary-Sue idea of your favorite character.

[Tak]

Originally Posted by cheesie

Don't worry, there is more than enough of Tak to go around, no matter how weird your seme kinks are. Actually, if they're very disturbing, please keep it to yourself, I don't want to know.

Psst, she says this now, but in reality she just wants me all to herself.

And all those kinks are nothing compared to what she has in her lil' head when we are alone...

- Tak

[Thess]

Originally Posted by wisteria233

Notice how none of those reasons include the wives not being able to cook. Also its not that the amount of child molesters have increased its that governments make a bigger effort to get rid of them now, so its reported more. There is a difference.

...Took the words out of my mouth. I did feel a little of contempt to read that misogynistic speech that made my blood boil.

Originally Posted by wisteria233

It is never stated that Ranka excels at cooking, and in order to cook you first need to be able to afford the ingredients. Low paying like waitressing doesn't allow for one to make much money, and neither does janitorial work, which isn't connected to waitressing at all, so your comparison is love. Nor is it considered a skill, that will net you a stable job. Cause face it waitressing is not a stable job. Also it was never shown that Ranka makes those Tuna buns only that she got them from her part time job.

Cutting in here. I agree with most you said, but we see her cooking for Ozma right? I think it's possible she knows how to cook a certain cuisine (probably Chinese or Japanese), but doesn't know how to make cookies. I don't think Sheryl knows how to cook in the style Ranka could be proficient about (or Alto for that matter), she seems the French cuisine type of "chef".

Originally Posted by wisteria233

In supplemental material it was stated that she could, and when she was cooking with Alto they were making Japanese dishes, which can be hard for someone to make if they are not used to it, because the preparation is different.

And then I read this. Yeah, someone doesn't really know cooking if they believe all the dishes are the same. I wouldn't be able to make Japanese dishes to save my life, but I'm rather good with the Italian and German cuisine.

[Tak]

Originally Posted by Thess

Cutting in here. I agree with most you said, but we see her cooking for Ozma right? I think it's possible she knows how to cook a certain cuisine (probably Chinese or Japanese), but doesn't know how to make cookies. I don't think Sheryl knows how to cook in the style Ranka could be proficient about (or Alto for that matter), she seems the French cuisine type of "chef".

Funny thing, I've always viewed that scene as her attempt to bake cookies for the first time. It also shows near the end credit of later episodes, which corresponds to that very episode.

If we are to be nice and give her the benefit of the doubt, the only thing she can probably make aside from cookies are pancakes. Otherwise, besides cookies, we've never seen her make anything else.

Originally Posted by LoveMeKags

No, I didn't. And Sheryl is not cooking but chopping,

Yeah, chopping is the first step to cooking. Excuse Sheryl for trying.

And according to blogs, she is learning, and learning very diligently.

I have a feeling that you are simply hell-bent on bashing Sheryl no matter what she does, which is fine, except your logic is failing because you obviously never considered that a domestic girl might just NOT be the one Alto is looking for. Seriously, try again.

- Tak

[wisteria233]

Originally Posted by Thess

Cutting in here. I agree with most you said, but we see her cooking for Ozma right? I think it's possible she knows how to cook a certain cuisine (probably Chinese or Japanese), but doesn't know how to make cookies. I don't think Sheryl knows how to cook in the style Ranka could be proficient about (or Alto for that matter), she seems the French cuisine type of "chef".

I'm not saying Ranka can't cook, I just questioning whether or not she excels at it. Though its unknown whether or not Ranka actually knows how to make Tuna buns.

And then I read this. Yeah, someone doesn't really know cooking if they believe all the dishes are the same. I wouldn't be able to make Japanese dishes to save my life, but I'm rather good with the Italian and German cuisine.

Quoted for truth you don't prepare a french dish the same way you prepare a japanese dish. I'm learning how to cook french and japanese cuisine myself and I can say without the shadow of a doubt that its different from when I make an Italian, or Jamaican dish. You don't cook tofu the same way you cook a duck. You don't cook cous cous the exact same way you cook jasmine rice.

And for the record there are some dishes that can be achieved merely through chopping, its called a salad.

[Tak]

Originally Posted by wisteria233

I'm not saying Ranka can't cook, I just questioning whether or not she excels at it. Though its unknown whether or not Ranka actually knows how to make Tuna buns.

Making buns is a laborious process, and physically taxing. It require a large amount of space and associated utensils. Nevermind that the chef of Nyan Nyan probably wouldn't allow Ranka to use company resources, but she seems too weak for the job anyway.

Trust me on this, because I can actually make buns.

- Tak

[ShinyBunny]

Originally Posted by LoveMeKags

She lacks certain things that would help her be independent if she lost everyone, including Alto, and was left to fend for herself. She is not quite aware of how to go about being a "poor" person like Ranka is.

Um, really?





I hope one day orphan Sheryl living in a dirty alley eating garbage understands what it's like to be poor like Ranka, who lived in a house with her family and then with Ozma and who goes to a fancy private school and probably has never wanted for anything material in her life.

Moving on... I'm sure they can both cook well enough to survive. I can cook really well, but I can't bake. It's a complete different thing to bake and cook. So I can't say Ranka can't cook because her cookies were bitter. As for being independent, Sheryl had to learn that at a very early age because she had nobody in the world to depend on. Even after Grace found her I doubt that part of her ever changed. She doesn't seem the type to rely on anyone and that's part of the reason she has a hard time letting Alto in when she's sick.

Ranka also is independent. Until Alto she didn't seem to bother many people about her problems and worked hard at her job. Ozma probably worked long hours so she was probably herself a lot, making her own meals, going to school and living on her own basically. Both women are independent and would be fine on their own. Both women wouldn't kill Alto if he ate their cooking. And if both of them completely suck at cooking there is such a thing as instant ramen and restaurants. Or he can make his own damn food. This whole argument is just beyond silly.

[Tak]

Originally Posted by ShinyBunny

This whole argument is just beyond silly.

At this point, I think she is borderline trolling, and she isn't very good at it.

- Tak

[wisteria233]

Originally Posted by ShinyBunny

Um, really?





I hope one day orphan Sheryl living in a dirty alley eating garbage understands what it's like to be poor like Ranka, who lived in a house with her family and then with Ozma and who goes to a fancy private school and probably has never wanted for anything material in her life.

Yes because everyone knows that little homeless orphan girls living on the streets and eating out of trash cans with no one to take care of them, and no one to rely on have it so easy. As compared to little girls who have their needs met and taken care of.

@Tak If she's trying to troll she's doing a bad job of it.

[ShinyBunny]

I don't think she's intentionally trolling. If you've been to that Bleach forum you'd know this is what they truly believe. Though unfortunately, most of the people here seem to discuss the series in a reality and canon based way.

I'm not saying I'm not biased and don't have shipper glasses, but some of this stuff is just beyond anything I've seen in other fandoms with love triangles.

[Tak]

Originally Posted by ShinyBunny

I don't think she's intentionally trolling. If you've been to that Bleach forum you'd know this is what they truly believe. Though unfortunately, most of the people here seem to discuss the series in a reality and canon based way.

That place is hell for bitter people who can't stand being on the losing end.

I am not getting anywhere close to it, not even with a 10 foot pole.

- Tak