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Old 2014-02-01, 14:53   Link #581
speedyexpress48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KholdStare View Post
Like said before, I'm fine with fascination of incest, but there's not much fascination about it. Because most of incest in anime is a joke, it makes me think that they're rather making fun of it instead of portraying it. For example, there is some incest in Kuttsukiboshi which has a quite interesting story behind it, and one of the few examples where it's not some kind of joke.
Exactly my point. Incest in most stories are a joke, and the real serious stories are few and far between (tho the amount of good ones are, erm, fewer...)

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Originally Posted by GreyZone View Post
Usually I'd say that this sounds like hypocrisy, however I do think that it can be pulled off as some subtle kind of satire, to make a point about something, e.g. social criticism, something along the lines of "society made them like that, now it has to accept them as they are" or so.
How is it hypocrisy? There's plenty of things that can be made to look lovely in anime/TV/film that would be disgusting/repulsive in real life...
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Old 2014-02-01, 14:57   Link #582
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It seems to me that a lot of it comes down to the concept that a number of anime series, dare I say more often than not, simply aren't able to handle these issues in a mature manner. I mean sure, sometimes, we get a White Album 2, that does handle sexuality in a mature manner, but for every one of of that, we get like 10 harem comedies or whatnot that does so in a juvenile manner, in which sexual relations are so embarrassing that any deep physical contact will give the characters cooties or some shit. If we can't even get decent portrayals of conventional heterocentric relationships, what chance does anything else stand? And thus, I tend to watch romantic series with a cynical slant. Even stuff like Key which I like a lot are often complete jokes relative to what actually comes across well when it comes to romance with the exception that stands out.

This of course, isn't particular to anime itself but if if you were to give an anime to me in a vacuum and tells me it handles incest, then it would still be an uphill struggle. I'm just confident that perhaps the creators believe that the audience just isn't able to handle sexuality in other than a fetishizied or realistic manner, and when we come to sexuality that isn't 100% conventional then all semblance of taking it seriously flies out the window. Homosexual relationships, transgender folks, incest... the amount of characters that can be sent at me and I can regard them as actual people rather than some kind of fetish marketed object is exceedingly rare.

Of course, it is too much to expect out of a medium that sells a certain dream. But much like in the Matrix, my mind cannot handle such juvenile idealization.

It's why series like Yosuga no Sora, which ultimately falls into these traps ultimately gets much more respect from me. Sure, the sexualization is simplistic and follows more of a juvenile approach towards explicit sexuality (lol we have tits!) but the characterization was of a high enough quality to make me feel that the pain of having to deal with the rest of society and the burdens they carried were something of a genuine creation. For something that was marketing itself off as basically softcore porn, it was contained a lot more substance than one would imagine, if you cared about narrative. And then you just see the opposite like Ore no Imouto and its garden variety spinoffs, and I just go back to sleep.
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Old 2014-02-01, 16:05   Link #583
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archon_Wing View Post
It seems to me that a lot of it comes down to the concept that a number of anime series, dare I say more often than not, simply aren't able to handle these issues in a mature manner. I mean sure, sometimes, we get a White Album 2, that does handle sexuality in a mature manner, but for every one of of that, we get like 10 harem comedies or whatnot that does so in a juvenile manner, in which sexual relations are so embarrassing that any deep physical contact will give the characters cooties or some shit. If we can't even get decent portrayals of conventional heterocentric relationships, what chance does anything else stand? And thus, I tend to watch romantic series with a cynical slant. Even stuff like Key which I like a lot are often complete jokes relative to what actually comes across well when it comes to romance with the exception that stands out.

This of course, isn't particular to anime itself but if if you were to give an anime to me in a vacuum and tells me it handles incest, then it would still be an uphill struggle. I'm just confident that perhaps the creators believe that the audience just isn't able to handle sexuality in other than a fetishizied or realistic manner, and when we come to sexuality that isn't 100% conventional then all semblance of taking it seriously flies out the window. Homosexual relationships, transgender folks, incest... the amount of characters that can be sent at me and I can regard them as actual people rather than some kind of fetish marketed object is exceedingly rare.

Of course, it is too much to expect out of a medium that sells a certain dream. But much like in the Matrix, my mind cannot handle such juvenile idealization.

It's why series like Yosuga no Sora, which ultimately falls into these traps ultimately gets much more respect from me. Sure, the sexualization is simplistic and follows more of a juvenile approach towards explicit sexuality (lol we have tits!) but the characterization was of a high enough quality to make me feel that the pain of having to deal with the rest of society and the burdens they carried were something of a genuine creation. For something that was marketing itself off as basically softcore porn, it was contained a lot more substance than one would imagine, if you cared about narrative. And then you just see the opposite like Ore no Imouto and its garden variety spinoffs, and I just go back to sleep.
Oreimo was actually good until season 2. Then it became a complete trainwreck.

The problem is that most anime is aimed at people who haven't had sexual relationships, which is why many anime have nothing that resembles a real life relationship.
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Old 2014-02-01, 19:06   Link #584
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archon_Wing View Post
And then you just see the opposite like Ore no Imouto and its garden variety spinoffs, and I just go back to sleep.
Spoiler for Implied Ore no Imouto spoilers:
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Old 2014-02-01, 19:30   Link #585
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Mm, I suppose Oreimo was indeed entertaining in parts, though my statement isn't really any about it being good or bad. It certainly did have a tongue in cheek kind of attitude that did mark more than just a mere fetish exploration for bits and parts. But ultimately, I didn't really see too much meaning and substance though it certainly might have gone a bit farther than some others would.
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Old 2014-02-01, 23:38   Link #586
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Originally Posted by lightbringer View Post
I'm fine with Japanese fascinations with incest, I guess I'm used to it now. But recently I happened to show an episode of an incest anime to a friend who has no exposure to anime (the plot involved a sister coming on to her brother, but it was a rather tame episode and they were stepsiblings to begin with, with no blood relation) and that did not come across well. Or at all. My friend was extremely shocked. I've been accused of being sick in the head and in need of counselling, and this came from my best friend who I've known for almost twenty years. I thought the reaction was completely over the top.
That's a bit over the top. I mean, not all anime is like that.

I can see side eying you, but not 'YOU ARE SICK!'


As for the topic itself.....

Sorry, but incest gets a huge NOPE from me. And the recent trend of little siblings lusting over Oni-chan is just weird and.....strange to me.
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Old 2014-02-01, 23:42   Link #587
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It works best on people who don't have siblings.
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Old 2014-02-02, 00:55   Link #588
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Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
It works best on people who don't have siblings.
Actually this and Archon_Wing's post made me realise:
  1. Everyone loves a good (drama) story, with good character, development and plots. So a well written incest-themed story will be rated by readers, unless you specifically despise the theme and never accept it in the first place. It's common through. Just like if you are a Korean or Chinese who despised Japan for what they do in WW2. You will never accept a story about glorifying Japanese military personnel, no matter how good the story or character was built or set up. Or if you are a hardcore feminists, you won't like a story where female characters were sexualised and depicted with supermodel body and curve (once again no matter how good the story or character is)
  2. Then we have the typical harem with a sister as love interest to fill up the quota, try to hook up those with "imouto moe", or like Archon put it "juvenile approach" towards incest theme. I don't know, maybe this one appealed for those without sisters? Because for me.... I don't call them to be bad. It's simply just boring, or sometime feels like insulting my intelligence
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Old 2014-02-02, 16:29   Link #589
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Originally Posted by risingstar3110 View Post
  1. Everyone loves a good (drama) story, with good character, development and plots. So a well written incest-themed story will be rated by readers, unless you specifically despise the theme and never accept it in the first place. It's common through. [...]
  2. Then we have the typical harem with a sister as love interest to fill up the quota, try to hook up those with "imouto moe", or like Archon put it "juvenile approach" towards incest theme. I don't know, maybe this one appealed for those without sisters? Because for me.... I don't call them to be bad. It's simply just boring, or sometime feels like insulting my intelligence
Basically, comedy's appeal and desirability is subjective. Not everyone is always in the mood for serious drama with serious subjects/characters/plot that require/encourage deep thought and serious analysis at every turn. Sure there's a place for that, but that isn't what everyone wants at 2am. Sometimes a completely juvenile romantic comedy is just what the doctor ordered, and some of the "imouto moe" shows are there to fill that gap (along with other low-brow romantic comedies and fanservice action shows).

The sample pool in this thread is a bit biased because we're all people who have spent an excessive amount of time discussing anime, and in that sense shows that provide more depth and treat subjects with more seriousness provide for much better discussion. But there's totally a market for "disposable entertainment" as well -- a silly show you'll watch, enjoy for what it is, and then move on.

If you look at general sales and popularity trends, shows that try to be more serious, down-to-earth, and grounded tend to be more hit-and-miss in terms of whether they find their audience. Sometimes it pays of in droves, and other times they languish in obscurity. At least comedies and more light-hearted shows tend to find their audiences more easily because people know what they're going to get; it's an easier sell to the audience that's receptive to it.

That being said, sometimes people do also tend to underestimate or undervalue the redeeming value and elements of seriousness in certain shows they have otherwise dismissed as mindless. Some things legitimately are deeper/more complicated than they think or can see at first glance.


(And that aside... the sort of sibling hijinks and drama in the lighter-hearted anime really have nothing at all do with realistic sibling relationships. I don't think enjoying it or not has anything to do with whether you have siblings, because it's so highly fictionalized/romanticized/abstracted. "Imouto characters" are very rarely designed to be completely realistic for that reason; it'd break the fantasy for people who have siblings.)
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Old 2014-02-02, 22:47   Link #590
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To answer the thread's question - I think one way of looking at it is that the idea of forbidden love generally makes us curious, even if we have no desire to experiment/partake in such a thing. I think it's natural for anyone to be interested in something they know nothing about, so incest stories cater to that curiosity.
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Old 2014-02-03, 08:48   Link #591
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I'm a bit surprised no one mentioned the event in
Spoiler:
this week, perhaps because the incest is hardly intended as comedy. Despite its dramatic power, the hentai-like stylistic depiction was quite disturbing, at least to this geezer.
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Old 2014-02-03, 09:41   Link #592
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I have no problem with "incest" relationships in fiction. As long as said imouto is likeable, romance is romance. But, there are cases where a possible broxsis relationship can feel more wrong than correctly. This depends on how the normal interaction is played out outside of brocon, tsuntsun or other tropes. For the imoutos, partly also how young they exactly look like.

And due to my drama-damaged self, I much prefer a light-hearted imouto romance than some dramafest just for the sake of having drama.
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Old 2014-02-03, 10:33   Link #593
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Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post


(And that aside... the sort of sibling hijinks and drama in the lighter-hearted anime really have nothing at all do with realistic sibling relationships. I don't think enjoying it or not has anything to do with whether you have siblings, because it's so highly fictionalized/romanticized/abstracted. "Imouto characters" are very rarely designed to be completely realistic for that reason; it'd break the fantasy for people who have siblings.)
I have to disagree with you on this. The rest of your post makes some good and interesting points, but I'm inclined to think you're off on this one.

There's a key word that Irenicus brought up before that I think applies here - Verisimilitude.

Most lighthearted anime tend to take place in worlds geared towards a certain degree of realism (i.e. not a fantasy or very futuristic setting). So viewers expect the relationships therein to feel at least somewhat plausible and/or believable.

Now, if you have a sibling (or siblings), you have your own real world sibling relationship(s) to measure against what you see in fiction. So differences can stand out more, especially when differences border on being completely opposite to your own real life experiences. In extreme cases, the differences are so great that the fictional sibling relationship becomes impossible to take seriously - It's just too far removed from your own experiences, and so you can't buy into it.

Frankly, a lot of anime sibling relationships are like that for me, as I do have two younger sisters in real life. And this isn't even just a matter of brocon, siscon, or incest - Yes, that's definitely part of it, but even the idea of a younger sibling doting on you almost constantly (as we see with some such siblings in anime) is radically different from my own real life experience with younger sisters.

If anything, younger siblings often try to stand apart from older siblings, and do this by establishing a certain level of distance where possible.

Anime actually tends to have it backwards if anything - Older siblings tend to feel a certain level of responsibility to look after younger siblings, and hence will tend to dote on them a bit.


Now, if I never had any siblings of my own, I'd have very little to measure anime sibling relationships against. I did know some sibling pairs/groups in school, but not so well that I could say much definitive about it.
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Old 2014-02-03, 11:48   Link #594
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A little expanding with two questions:

1. Is people who fascinated with Anime Incest freak? I wouldn't lie and tell that I hate it. Quite the opposite. I always try to incorporate it to my fanfics, and so does a number of other writers that I know. And yet I don't consider myself to have any type of complex, still follow the rules.

(Of course, it's weird for a 7 years-old to write fanfic.)

2. Would Anime Incest syndrome only affects people who has no sibling? That statement is even written of TVTrope. But me myself has an older sister and my twin brother.
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Old 2014-02-03, 12:22   Link #595
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I have THREE sisters and two brothers, so I have my fill of sibling drama, cold war, powerplay and mind games. In that perspective, incest in both ways is eeeeeeeeeeeeew to me. IIRC, the only time I have seen sibling relationships described accurately, it was in Danshi Koukousei no Nichijou. Even if it was at time played for humor, it certainly conveyed that "been there" feeling to many who had siblings.

Yes, imouto are terrifying creatures, just as the author of Maoyuu can attest.
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Old 2014-02-03, 12:59   Link #596
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Frankly, a lot of anime sibling relationships are like that for me, as I do have two younger sisters in real life. And this isn't even just a matter of brocon, siscon, or incest - Yes, that's definitely part of it, but even the idea of a younger sibling doting on you almost constantly (as we see with some such siblings in anime) is radically different from my own real life experience with younger sisters.

If anything, younger siblings often try to stand apart from older siblings, and do this by establishing a certain level of distance where possible.

Anime actually tends to have it backwards if anything - Older siblings tend to feel a certain level of responsibility to look after younger siblings, and hence will tend to dote on them a bit.
Perhaps it's partly something to do with Japan's hierarchical culture. Since you're a yuri connoisseur, I'm guessing you've seen many situations where kouhai characters act strangely chummy and/or subservient to their "cool senpai". And not just in yuri anime/manga either. This may not be realistic, but it could be interpreted as an extreme followup on the "respect your seniors" rule that runs through Japanese culture. One could say the same for the "doting little sister" stereotype. Anime is larger than life in many ways, and things that are common in everyday Japanese life often get blown out of proportion in order to appeal to certain audiences.

By the way, have you ever read The Catcher in the Rye? The main character has an adorable little sister who dotes on her brother in a way not unlike many anime sibling relationships. And this is an American book written in 1951.

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2. Would Anime Incest syndrome only affects people who has no sibling? That statement is even written of TVTrope. But me myself has an older sister and my twin brother.
I have a little sister whom I have absolutely zero romantic or sexual interest in. The same goes for my female cousins. At the same time though, I'm perfectly unperturbed by most incestuous sibling relationships I've seen in Japanese media, and I even find some of them hot (like in Yosuga no Sora). It's a good idea to separate fiction from reality to some extent.

However, what does annoy me with incest in anime is when a character is made a brocon or siscon for seemingly no reason, particularly when it interferes with the relationships with other characters. For instance, what exactly was the point of Utao's infatuation with her brother Kyouhei in Kamisama Dolls, other than to fulfill some stupid unnecessary harem quota? It just made too many scenes pointlessly awkward to me, and it didn't really change anything in the plot.
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Old 2014-02-03, 16:54   Link #597
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Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
Basically, comedy's appeal and desirability is subjective. Not everyone is always in the mood for serious drama with serious subjects/characters/plot that require/encourage deep thought and serious analysis at every turn. Sure there's a place for that, but that isn't what everyone wants at 2am. Sometimes a completely juvenile romantic comedy is just what the doctor ordered, and some of the "imouto moe" shows are there to fill that gap (along with other low-brow romantic comedies and fanservice action shows).
Well, there's no doubt I used the term Juvenile to emphasize a certain point as in I certainly feel it reaches a certain cap for quality but it's also true that it's not always a negative modifier. I'm sure nobody likes the excessively pretentious demand for high art to be mindlessly applied to every work and I personally find that laughable and only serves to create more division-- I honestly feel there's too much of an urge for certain fans that consider themselves intelligent to actively separate themselves from "narutards" and "basement dwelling otaku" and honestly that just comes off as trying way too hard leading to toxic effects.

I mean, I peruse To Love Ru quite a bit, and it is clearly not a mature approach towards sexuality at all. Oh sure, there's explicitness, but a lot of people confuse that with being mature. It's not-- it's designed to cater to the hormones of young dudes. At the same time, I can't really say no to it every now and then. My complaint is of course that this for too much seems like the default mode, and hell, even though Darkness has even more of this immature approach towards female bodies, it did manage to add a bit of snazz to it while maintaining this approach-- aka it didn't get too serious at itself. And honestly, it still remains enjoyable at that approach.

But to get back on topic; the incest implications in To Love Ru do not bother me at all. Perhaps it's just an understanding of the purpose of the show made it ensured that it should not be taken seriously as the main goal is to provide excuses for unwarranted nudity and Mikan's insertion in the plot always seem kind of questionable but then again she's amusing enough for the viewer to accept her being shoehorned into the story as well as adding this certain relationship angle for a series that is pretty much trying to cover them all. It's kinda like the Yosuga no Sora dilemma where you see decent characterization but the end goal for many that saw the cover was ... that. Is it really wrong to eventually get into that? I really can't answer that. But really, it still works, it does get played off as laughs even though if you'd analyze it too much, there is some real problems. I'm not trying to really pass this off as a masterpiece, as certainly TLR has many problems of its own, but I'm trying to pick something of which vindictive ranting isn't warranted while I pew pew pew from an ivory tower. I would like to do a number of things to the audience here in this thread, but if there's one thing I don't, I really don't want to bore them. This kinda show does fit into your description here though:

Quote:
The sample pool in this thread is a bit biased because we're all people who have spent an excessive amount of time discussing anime, and in that sense shows that provide more depth and treat subjects with more seriousness provide for much better discussion. But there's totally a market for "disposable entertainment" as well -- a silly show you'll watch, enjoy for what it is, and then move on.
I'm also really lucky I brought up examples that had incest somehow, without even actively thinking of it!

Also, I also thought Little Busters! was a pretty naive, silly, and childish story of sorts for a large portion of its run-- if you ask me about Key from a literary perspective, I'm mostly going to sneer outside of Clannad (and even that well...), but it had a real sense of innocence and sincerity that you just can't get from all that wannabe serious meta meta stuff. If there's anything that turns me off; it would be an emphasis on too many meta-elements. And to drag this back on topic, I'm going to bring up how Monogatari handled incest and that was just not in a manner that worked on any level at all. I just get the feeling it's trying to pass itself off as high-brow but ultimately just comes off as it disguising low-brow stuff that I just find unforgettable since there's just no real substance beyond a few lines of subtext.


Quote:
If you look at general sales and popularity trends, shows that try to be more serious, down-to-earth, and grounded tend to be more hit-and-miss in terms of whether they find their audience. Sometimes it pays of in droves, and other times they languish in obscurity. At least comedies and more light-hearted shows tend to find their audiences more easily because people know what they're going to get; it's an easier sell to the audience that's receptive to it.

That being said, sometimes people do also tend to underestimate or undervalue the redeeming value and elements of seriousness in certain shows they have otherwise dismissed as mindless. Some things legitimately are deeper/more complicated than they think or can see at first glance.
"If I wanted a realistic bad ending, I'd just look out a window"
Or maybe in the mirror.

The value of escapism I feel is certainly valuable; we get plenty of realism everywhere, really. I'm not too appreciative of the balance though. Watching White Album 2 has had me reconsider the difference between these perspectives.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
I have to disagree with you on this. The rest of your post makes some good and interesting points, but I'm inclined to think you're off on this one.

There's a key word that Irenicus brought up before that I think applies here - Verisimilitude.

Most lighthearted anime tend to take place in worlds geared towards a certain degree of realism (i.e. not a fantasy or very futuristic setting). So viewers expect the relationships therein to feel at least somewhat plausible and/or believable.

Now, if you have a sibling (or siblings), you have your own real world sibling relationship(s) to measure against what you see in fiction. So differences can stand out more, especially when differences border on being completely opposite to your own real life experiences. In extreme cases, the differences are so great that the fictional sibling relationship becomes impossible to take seriously - It's just too far removed from your own experiences, and so you can't buy into it.

Frankly, a lot of anime sibling relationships are like that for me, as I do have two younger sisters in real life. And this isn't even just a matter of brocon, siscon, or incest - Yes, that's definitely part of it, but even the idea of a younger sibling doting on you almost constantly (as we see with some such siblings in anime) is radically different from my own real life experience with younger sisters.

If anything, younger siblings often try to stand apart from older siblings, and do this by establishing a certain level of distance where possible.

Anime actually tends to have it backwards if anything - Older siblings tend to feel a certain level of responsibility to look after younger siblings, and hence will tend to dote on them a bit.


Now, if I never had any siblings of my own, I'd have very little to measure anime sibling relationships against. I did know some sibling pairs/groups in school, but not so well that I could say much definitive about it.
Ah, it's also true that these things can't be viewed in a vacuum. Sure, it makes no sense to apply 100% realistic standards to a work of fiction, but when I say certain words, they have an immediate value that can't be bent too far. Stuff like friendship, or siblings can't be twisted that far, because if it is, then why even bother with the concept. The doting thing certainly does come off as a kind of wish fulfillment which may make it a bit less believable, though I kinda just toss it with the hundreds of attractive members of the opposite gender that end up falling in love with the lead despite ornery behavior just cuz... But the the fantasy of being accepted by those that seem distant or mean to you certainly has validity with the audience.

It's true that fiction allows us to take these concepts into realms that we really shouldn't in real life, but that's the advantage of fiction. Which is ironically one of the better things I took from Oreimo. But as you know, I don't like that series too much so you may insert me talking about how it went off to contradict and screw it up but nobody wants to see me to do it for the 35436th time, so there...
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Old 2014-02-03, 21:19   Link #598
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Most lighthearted anime tend to take place in worlds geared towards a certain degree of realism (i.e. not a fantasy or very futuristic setting). So viewers expect the relationships therein to feel at least somewhat plausible and/or believable.

Now, if you have a sibling (or siblings), you have your own real world sibling relationship(s) to measure against what you see in fiction. So differences can stand out more, especially when differences border on being completely opposite to your own real life experiences. In extreme cases, the differences are so great that the fictional sibling relationship becomes impossible to take seriously - It's just too far removed from your own experiences, and so you can't buy into it.
Each person is different. I too have siblings, but I don't treat the sibling relationships in most anime as realistic, and I have no problem with this dichotomy. I buy into it because I understand the construct they're trying to establish for the fictional relationship (the internal rules of the fictional universe), and the emotions and actions presented by the characters are plausible and believable within that construct. But does it have anything to do with the relationship I have with my siblings in real life? Very little to none. And this doesn't really bother me at all. Whether the worlds have "realistic settings" or not doesn't change the fact that I still treat it as a fictional universe with a different set of rules.

Now, I'm not saying that may not bother some other people, but it isn't necessarily problematic for that reason. The fact that it bothers you doesn't mean it bothers everyone with siblings in the same way. Your relationships in real life aren't as big of a determining factor as the way you personally approach fiction and the expectations about things like "verisimilitude" in this regard.


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Originally Posted by Archon_Wing View Post
It's kinda like the Yosuga no Sora dilemma where you see decent characterization but the end goal for many that saw the cover was ... that. Is it really wrong to eventually get into that? I really can't answer that. But really, it still works, it does get played off as laughs even though if you'd analyze it too much, there is some real problems.
This is an apparent dichotomy that a lot of people have a hard time bridging, because the blend of storytelling and sexual content is not as common as what you see in anime/eroge/etc. To some people, just having that sort of content in the work negates any redeeming qualities because it undermines the motivation for the story. But, that is actually part of the base concept that is being challenged.

Again, I would suggest that it's a matter of focus and whether you can let yourself slip into that universe with those characters. If you can only stand on the outside and look at it in the abstract, the dichotomies will pile up. But if you can allow yourself to accept the world being presented, there can often be more depth than it seems like on the outside. Fiction is often much more than the combination of tropes it employs, despite the culture of this community that sometimes seems to believe otherwise.
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Last edited by relentlessflame; 2014-02-03 at 21:46.
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Old 2014-02-03, 22:14   Link #599
Marcus H.
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Well, incest aside, I consider the anime of Yosuga no Sora is one of the most well-written VN adaptations of its time (until Steins;Gate came and excluding the heart-wrenching works of Key). Even with the sexual content, one doesn't feel that it's shoehorned into the story and works well with the level of romance involved. Compare that to ImoCho, for example, where the female lead has to engage in raunchy affairs with her brother OR ELSE.

As a single child (yay!), I honestly don't care much about incest, probably until OreImo came.

I'm sure I'm not the only one who wished that Kirino and Kyousuke were rewritten as (a) starcrossed lovers that are not related by blood or familial ties, or (b) as siblings whose relationship improve after becoming distant to each other.
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Old 2014-02-03, 23:07   Link #600
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Quote:
Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
Each person is different. I too have siblings, but I don't treat the sibling relationships in most anime as realistic, and I have no problem with this dichotomy. I buy into it because I understand the construct they're trying to establish for the fictional relationship (the internal rules of the fictional universe), and the emotions and actions presented by the characters are plausible and believable within that construct.
"The emotions and actions by the characters are plausible and believable within that construct".

But what constitutes the construct?

"The internal rules of the fictional universe".

And what determines the internal rules of the fictional universe? The characters do, if there's nothing about the setting itself that clearly and unambiguously separates it from the real world.

So the characters decide what's plausible and believable for themselves? Well, I suppose so, and that's fine in the latter stages of a story once characterization has been well-developed, but early on, characters acting in ways that seem highly unrealistic to viewers can be problematic.

So sure, if viewers get over those initial hurdles (like you and Tempester clearly have), then it can get easier with time. But a lot of viewers never will get over those initial hurdles, and their own real life experiences (including their own real life relationships) can be a big part of the reason why.

So I think a viewer having siblings themselves will probably make it harder for them to roll with certain anime tropes and character types. There may be some exceptions, but I think there's some truth to it as well.


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But does it have anything to do with the relationship I have with my siblings in real life? Very little to none. And this doesn't really bother me at all.
What fictional relationships do you think speak to people the most: Ones they can relate to, or ones they can't relate to?
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