Is itatchi a "super genious" compared to others??

[Zu Ra]

If you do remember way back in 03/04 there was this fansub which used to sub naruto . Well they subbed sanin's as Genius Ninjas .

I know how and why Neji and Super Dweeb Sauckay are called genius but at their respective levels not in genrality . But is it right to compare two genin level Ninjas with Itachi ( anime Storyline )

Spoiler for manga:

Saucakay ( Dropout ) and Neji ( chunin ) with Itachi .

The comparision of Hard Gei Sauckay and Neji to Itachi is like comparing Konohamaru and Naruto . In my books who are in the same league as Itachi leaving Sanins are Sarutobi Yondi and Kakashi

[Sabaku Kyu]

Originally Posted by Geta Boshi

If you do remember way back in 03/04 there was this fansub which used to sub naruto . Well they subbed sanin's as Genius Ninjas .

I know how and why Neji and Super Dweeb Sauckay are called genius but at their respective levels not in genrality . But is it right to compare two genin level Ninjas with Itachi ( anime Storyline )

Spoiler for manga:

Saucakay ( Dropout ) and Neji ( chunin ) with Itachi .

The comparision of Hard Gei Sauckay and Neji to Itachi is like comparing Konohamaru and Naruto . In my books who are in the same league as Itachi leaving Sanins are Sarutobi Yondi and Kakashi

I see where you're coming from. Still, just for accuracy..

Spoiler for manga:

Sasuke is a missing-nin and not a dropout, you can't call Sasuke a dropout without also calling Itachi a dropout (technically, he his still a chuunin). Neji is a jounin and so far the only member of the 8 Konoha genin teams to achieve that rank

[Dauthi]

Originally Posted by Uchikatsu

I think it's hard to compare such a thing. Definitely since there's an infinite amount of knowledge...someone always knows something you don't so you really can't be *Genius* If you are not in fact super smarter than your peers. And seeing if he was smarter than Akatsuki Leader...he wouldn't be following this guy around now would he. sure at this point in time you can judge but later is always pending.

Also: jfkfjfjkfjkflsjlfjs I really don't like the poll answers we can do since ...not everyone would pick one of the 3.

Well when i and the manga refers to "genius" i believe they mean a person who is naturally talented at a particular thing. Like in reality a person can be naturally gifted at math. But then again you have others that are even more gifted in that field, and rise to the top as an "elite" or prodigy that rarely comes about.

This is what i had thought of itatchi as compared to other ninjas since his ascent to the top was quick, and once he got there he was still very young, and had few equals (other than a few other "elite").

Also to tall the Sasuke bashers, Sasuke is the main characters, and the authors favorite one at that. Im positive that the generation of main characters will be some of the strongest ninjas, since the story focus' around them. Especially the main characters : Sasuke and Naruto. They will become undoubtedly superiorly strong, as with all shonen.

[Zakura_Angel64]

..itachi wiped out the whole uchiha clan, he can defeat kakashi, obviously he's stronger... do you think neji or sasuke could do that? Sasuke maybe...but neji wouldn't be strong enough to take out the entire hyuuga clan

[Suna no tate]

Taking out a clan as a measure of strength? Hardly especially considering how Itachi did it and who he killed. He attacked at night, and killed a lot of women and children. Not all the uchiha members killed were ninja. In fact most likely very very few of them were. I say this because ninja are always doing missions correct? After all tsunade always says "such and such is away doing an s rank mission". If a large proportion of the uchiha clan were ninja, then it'd be highly unlikely that on any given night, all of them would be together in one place (presumably konoha) and all of them would be slain. If a large proportion were ninja, then most likely some would be away somewhere on some mission. Yet they were all killed. So its more logical that only a very very very low percentage of the uchiha clan were ninja at the time, thus allowing Itachi to kill all the clan members. So who is he killing? Mostly women and children, and civilian men (certainly even the best police officer is no match for a ninja). So how impressive is that act? In truth... not very. If I'm Itachi, I don't see how that is any sort of test of my power. A better test would be to see how many S class missing nins I could collar on my own... but he's far too cowardly for that.

Its far more impressive that he's been able to elude capture. I mean think about it: he killed the entire clan, managed to do it without the 3rd Hokage noticing (and remember the 3rd has that crystal ball), managed to escape Konoha (and the ANBU presumably), and is still uncaptured to this day. Those are the real and impressive feats of said Uchiha Itachi.

[s-class uchiha]

Originally Posted by Suna no tate

Taking out a clan as a measure of strength? Hardly especially considering how Itachi did it and who he killed. He attacked at night, and killed a lot of women and children. Not all the uchiha members killed were ninja. In fact most likely very very few of them were. I say this because ninja are always doing missions correct? After all tsunade always says "such and such is away doing an s rank mission". If a large proportion of the uchiha clan were ninja, then it'd be highly unlikely that on any given night, all of them would be together in one place (presumably konoha) and all of them would be slain. If a large proportion were ninja, then most likely some would be away somewhere on some mission. Yet they were all killed. So its more logical that only a very very very low percentage of the uchiha clan were ninja at the time, thus allowing Itachi to kill all the clan members. So who is he killing? Mostly women and children, and civilian men (certainly even the best police officer is no match for a ninja). So how impressive is that act? In truth... not very. If I'm Itachi, I don't see how that is any sort of test of my power. A better test would be to see how many S class missing nins I could collar on my own... but he's far too cowardly for that.

Its far more impressive that he's been able to elude capture. I mean think about it: he killed the entire clan, managed to do it without the 3rd Hokage noticing (and remember the 3rd has that crystal ball), managed to escape Konoha (and the ANBU presumably), and is still uncaptured to this day. Those are the real and impressive feats of said Uchiha Itachi.

That's not necessarily true. The uchiha had a whole dang police force and there are only 3 survivors to date - itachi, sasuke, and the 3rd MS user (and ?TOBI?).

But, i do find it hard to believe no Uchiha's were out on missions or something. Perhaps since they were an elite clan they were in charge of internal security or something or it was a time when all of the clan was there.

and I do agree that his escape was crazy and the fact that he went unnoticed - crazy to think all those civilians and warriors died w/o being able to alert anyone.

and planned for sasuke to come!

[MobiuS]

Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu

You could say that about Kimimaro as well, since he was locked up most of the time and didn't even train. Haku was trained by Zabuza after he found him as a child

But what Haku and Kimimaro did were a little different from Neji, in that the jutsu they learned were manifestations of their bloodlines. Creating ice and extending bones for users of these bloodlines is as natural as a Hyuuga gaining Byakugan or a Uchiha gaining Sharingan. Not to say that Mayko Hyo isnt an extremely talented technique. It's just that Haku took something that came instinctively to him and applied it in a unique and talented way. Which isn't the same as say Neji learning a technique like Kaiten, which is in no way a manifestation of Byakugan.

Also, how are Neji and Haku greater geniuses than Yondaime who developed 3 totally unique jutsu from scratch?

You do realize just because you have a bloodline does not guarantee you will manifest the abilities from it, or learn the corresponding jutsus its attached to.

Not every Uchiha with a Sharingan got MS. Not every Byakugan can change to a Sharingan.

[Shay]

I vote for the option that isn't there. *cough bias thread cough*

Both Neji and Sasuke have more potential than Itachi.

[Hunter]

I can see how Neji can be compared to Itachi in the sense that they are said to be those who inherited the most of their respective bloodlines (at this point anyway, who know what Sasuke will do in the future) but as far as "genius" can be scaled Itachi showed way more natural progress than both Neji and Sasuke put together.

I wouldn't say he became that way without need for training though, I don't remember anything implying that Itachi didn't train.

Originally Posted by Suna no tate

Taking out a clan as a measure of strength? Hardly especially considering how Itachi did it and who he killed. He attacked at night, and killed a lot of women and children. Not all the uchiha members killed were ninja. In fact most likely very very few of them were.

You are wrong, it was stated in the manga and data book that almost all the Uchiha clan was part of the Military Power Force. It was also said that the MPF members were elite ninja since they were the ones applying law on other ninjas.
And we don't know precisely how Itachi did his clan.

[Suna no tate]

Originally Posted by MobiuS

You do realize just because you have a bloodline does not guarantee you will manifest the abilities from it, or learn the corresponding jutsus its attached to.

Not every Uchiha with a Sharingan got MS. Not every Byakugan can change to a Sharingan.

Very good. A lot of people miss this point. Its why Neji is considered a genius.

Originally Posted by s-class uchiha

That's not necessarily true. The uchiha had a whole dang police force and there are only 3 survivors to date - itachi, sasuke, and the 3rd MS user (and ?TOBI?).

I don't think a police force would be enough. You need ninja to battle ninja

Originally Posted by Hunter

You are wrong, it was stated in the manga and data book that almost all the Uchiha clan was part of the Military Power Force. It was also said that the MPF members were elite ninja since they were the ones applying law on other ninjas.
And we don't know precisely how Itachi did his clan.

I don't really remember this. If you could give the reference to the chapter that'd be great. Still its odd that at on any given night all the Uchiha clan members were together in one place. After all, how many nights of the year is Kakashi in konoha? Or Gai? Or any other ninja? From my understanding, Sasuke's father wasn't much more than just a normal police officer or something. Anyway, even if you're right, we really don't know how large the Uchiha clan is either. It could be no more than 50 people. Or maybe a 100...

[Sabaku Kyu]

Originally Posted by Suna no tate

I don't think a police force would be enough. You need ninja to battle ninja

Uh, Konoha's military police force are ninja. They have been given the specific task of enforcing the law among Konoha ninja, but they still receive normal ninja training and maybe even more since they have to enforce the law of the village. This may also mean that they don't normally have missions outside of Konoha as much as normal shinobi, increasing the likelihood that they were all present in the village on the night Itachi slayed the clan

I don't really remember this. If you could give the reference to the chapter that'd be great. Still its odd that at on any given night all the Uchiha clan members were together in one place. After all, how many nights of the year is Kakashi in konoha? Or Gai? Or any other ninja? From my understanding, Sasuke's father wasn't much more than just a normal police officer or something. Anyway, even if you're right, we really don't know how large the Uchiha clan is either. It could be no more than 50 people. Or maybe a 100...

Sasuke's father was the captain of the police force. I don't feel like looking up manga facts but this wikipedia article explains well the Uchiha clan's involvement with the Konoha police force, though the information may be a little redunant to you http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uchiha_clan

[Suna no tate]

So I see.

Anyone know how large the uchiha clan was? What's the average clan size in the Naruto Universe anyway?

[s-class uchiha]

Originally Posted by Suna no tate

I don't think a police force would be enough. You need ninja to battle ninja

remember the Uchiha Clan Ninja were the Police force, so it is impressive that Itachi took that elite group of Ninja out.

[Half Demon]

well lets end this f~~~ topic, neji neither sasuke can be compared to itachi. It would be an insult to itachi comparing him to neji and sasuke damn rookies. maybe shikamaru cause he was the only one who became the chuunin and asuma has never beat him in the shogi (chess) even though he was a jounin.

[cheese4u]

The only thing that bugs me is that people say Itachi wouldn't be a genious if it weren't for the sharingan. That's like saying Kikashi wouldn't be a genious if it weren't for the sharingan. But we all know he was already a genious ninja before the sharingan. In my humble opinion, Itachi would still be at least a very strong jonin if he didn't have sharingan, if not kage.

[s-class uchiha]

Originally Posted by cheese4u

The only thing that bugs me is that people say Itachi wouldn't be a genious if it weren't for the sharingan. That's like saying Kikashi wouldn't be a genious if it weren't for the sharingan. But we all know he was already a genious ninja before the sharingan. In my humble opinion, Itachi would still be at least a very strong jonin if he didn't have sharingan, if not kage.

I think that if Itachi stayed a good character that after Sarutobi's death would have def. been considered for the position of Kage.

A 13 year old who has the maturity and leadership to be ANBU capt, is def. in the running. However I still think that Jiraiya and Tsunade would've been picked over him.

Good thought cheese!

[Dauthi]

Originally Posted by cheese4u

The only thing that bugs me is that people say Itachi wouldn't be a genious if it weren't for the sharingan. That's like saying Kikashi wouldn't be a genious if it weren't for the sharingan. But we all know he was already a genious ninja before the sharingan. In my humble opinion, Itachi would still be at least a very strong jonin if he didn't have sharingan, if not kage.

Indeed. I think that without the Sharingan he would have been an even greater genious than Kakashi could have been without Sharingan. His speed/taijutsu is greater than Kakashi's, and he's younger. Like i said, it isn't the Sharingan, but the fact he is a naturally gifted fighter. The sharingan adds upon that, making him virtually the hardest opponent that we know of so far.

[rasedori]

itachi is a genius because he was an anbu member at the age of 13, got his sharingan at an early age, and he got ms at a young age

[Suna no tate]

Getting your sharingan at an early age means nothing. For all you know, he was scared by a cat at night and that brought out his sharingan. We know it is brought out by stressful situations. He may have been getting spanked by his dad and lo and behold...sharingan! Thats all. Its more impressive that he could use it so well. Even with the sharingan, he was a 13 year old fighting grown men. Thats the impressive part. We know that the sharingan may help you see, but if you can't keep up in speed, you'll still lose. The fact is he was 13 and still physically fast enough. His use of the sharingan is the impressive part, not the getting it. For the same reason, getting the MS means nothing concerning being a genius. We know how he got it. He killed his friend. How does killing your friend make you a genius? It doesn't.

[Rurik]

I missed this post…

Originally Posted by s-class uchiha

Yeah, I agree its the only way to make sense of it all, EXCEPT for the part where we are both confused. You might have missed it, but they Uchiha Police didn't come 2 years after, but right after with the "suicide note" and all. They found his body right afterwards and was investigating. The very natural reading of the Uchiha story places it like this, but I think we have to just let that little piece go and just assume that some time did pass.

Yeah that was one day after Itahci Killed Shisui, and after this Uchiha Cop investigation around 2 years passed

Don't you think the suicide note and finding him dead was pretty much + the fact that right after this incident he killed everyone points to plot hole?! You gotta admit it!

You have to see both Chapter 222 and 223, to have an Idea of what I’m going to post, because Even Me would not understand this very well.

Chapter 222 ends at Itachi been at 11 Year old, and Chapter 223 Begins at the Day of the Massacre, and Itahci been 13 Years old and Been ANBU captain. But in between Chapter 223 Itachi Age Jumps to around 11 or 12 Years Old.

Chapter 223 begins with Sasuke lying in his bed, here is were things get complicated; Now I don’t say it is a plot hole, rather, That Kishi did not handle well the time Jumps and how he wanted to Tell his Uchiha Story.

At a first read Chapter 223 looks like if is just passing yur normal Flashback, but In fact, In this CHapter this Flashback has another Flashback, which are marked by This words at the Beginning:

“Besides after That (the Day of the Uchiha Cop) The Awkward event that happened between Father and Him”

After this sentence, a new Flashback inside the normal flashback begins with The Awkward Event, this event is showed as to announce the beginning of the Flashback.

This is when Itachi passed in front of His Father without even making actual Eye contact, after this We are then taken to Sasuke training and eventually learning the Kato Jutsu, this Flashback inside a Flashback ends at page 16 were once Again the authors Jump at the same scene of Sasuke lying in his Bedroom and Sasuke Saying “from That Day…I don’t believe he is the same brother as before”

Chapter 223 is the one that create the Confusion because everything seems to happen in the same timeline and thus create the notion that only days have passed since Itachi confornted the Uchiha Cops, whereas in reality, we are seen a Flashback inside A Flashback.

Your explanation fo 10-11 is right on, but if he took the chuunin exam at the regular age ~12 or 13 all this fits - but than the chuunin exam age of 10 wouldn't fit!!!

Why it would not fit?, that’s the most easy thing that can fit given is not close to the part were the confusion starts.