Gundam Seed/Seed Destiny General Discussion Thread

[Skye629]

You guys are hilarious to follow, no offense, Im not gonna quote anything as that would be insane considering the lengths of your guys posts:

Znozzy: Reading some of your posts may have caused me to rupture a lung laughing (not literally, and no offense, the "Where is the Love" one really got me as Im a HUGE fan of that song)


Deadpool: The scene where Kira flipped the switch off DOES exist, its found in Special Edition movies (to help alleviate the confusion that the explosion from the Minerva's cannon was not the Freedom causing a nuclear explosion)





My stance on this matter is that:

Kira DID kill her

His actions are the most direct cause, sure there were other factors leading to her demise, but in the end, it was the Freedom's beam saber stabbing the cannons right above the cockpit as they fired, critically damaging the Destroy and critically fatally wounding Stella in the process (how this happened is pretty irrelevant imo, as she still died from whatever happened after/when the beam went through)

[Znozzy]

Originally Posted by Skye629

You guys are hilarious to follow, no offense, Im not gonna quote anything as that would be insane considering the lengths of your guys posts:

Znozzy: Reading some of your posts may have caused me to rupture a lung laughing (not literally, and no offense, the "Where is the Love" one really got me as Im a HUGE fan of that song)


Deadpool: The scene where Kira flipped the switch off DOES exist, its found in Special Edition movies (to help alleviate the confusion that the explosion from the Minerva's cannon was not the Freedom causing a nuclear explosion)





My stance on this matter is that:

Kira DID kill her

His actions are the most direct cause, sure there were other factors leading to her demise, but in the end, it was the Freedom's beam saber stabbing the cannons right above the cockpit as they fired, critically damaging the Destroy and critically fatally wounding Stella in the process (how this happened is pretty irrelevant imo, as she still died from whatever happened after/when the beam went through)

Happy to contribute to a good laugh.

Also, the scene with the nuclear reactor being shut down is also present in Seed Destiny episode 35, before the intro-song, around 2 minutes and 2-5 seconds in.

ALSOOOOO.

The Minerva caused the huge nuclear blast shown at the end of episode 34.


http://imgur.com/eODWkLK
See? It's the Tannhauser's beam

[rakusukira]

so after this remaster, will we finally get our movie? hope so. been absent from this thread for a very long time!! good to see this thread is still alive and kicking!!

[Deadpool2000]

Originally Posted by Znozzy

What's shown in the show supports his argument, not yours.

So the show DOES give us a 100% guarantee that Kira killed Stella?

Again, show this. Don't just say it.

Originally Posted by Znozzy

unless you want to blame EA engineer's for making something randomly explode inside the cockpit that was unrelated to the beam sabers stuck in Destroy's Beam cannons.

I don't want to blame anyone for anything. In fact I haven't blamed anyone for anything. That is actually the point.

Originally Posted by monster

There you go. In both cases,

Gonna stop you right there. If in two different scenarios you end up with the EXACT SAME CONSEQUENCE, then the difference between those scenarios is, by definition, inconsequential. It literally does not matter.

Originally Posted by monster

Just because there is no absolute certainty either way doesn't mean the two scenarios in each event is of equal probability.

Who said they did?

Originally Posted by monster

That doesn't really require ambiguity in the part of Stella's cause of death.

What? If one character is dealing with ambiguity and the other is dealing with cerainty then the two scenes are no longer comparable.

Originally Posted by monster

While the Freedom and the Gouf were stabbed near their cockpits, the cockpits themselves were intact when those stabbings happened. The Destroy's cockpit was damaged with the Impulse's first strike and then the Freedom fired railgun shots right near the opening of the damaged cockpit, further weakening it. Then you have that last explosion and, by then, Stella did not have an intact cockpit to protect her.

But the explosion came from the inside, not out. The hole in the front is irrelevant.

And you are trying to prove that it is POSSIBLE that Kira killed her. Which no one is arguing. His attack may very well have killed her.

What I am saying is that it also may not. There is plenty of evidence to suppport that someone in that situation may survive. Even ignoring the Neo instance, we still have PLENTY of examples of this to draw from.

Combined with the fact that she had other wounds that MAY (or may not) have killed her, it makes spotting the precise cause of death impossible.

Could be any or all of those factors. We just don't know.

Originally Posted by Kirayuki

But the thing is nobody blamed Shinn for her death,

Nor did I.

Remember, I am not arguing that Shinn killed her, or that Kira didn't.

I am arguing that the scene is vague and the true cause of death is uncertain. I have been very clear, and unfortunately repetitive, about this point.

Originally Posted by Kirayuki

and there is no one denying his accusation of Kira.

Which proves nothing.

Originally Posted by Kirayuki

It doesn't matter if he is really the killer or not,

Yes.

Originally Posted by Kirayuki

audiences are free to "believe" that Kira is the one who caused her death from what Shinn stated and they aren't wrong.

Sort of.

No nothing contradicts this, so it isn't "wrong" per se. But remember that this is fiction, not an alternate universe. No event happens that we aren't privy to. There isn't a "right" answer that we just never saw because none of this ever happened. The truth is that there IS no actual answer.

Originally Posted by Kirayuki

In fact Kira is one of the possible causes after all, but looking at the one who deals the biggest injury to her, Kira got the short end of the stick.

You could say he's the most likely suspect, but it remains vague.

Originally Posted by cyberdemon

as a kira and freedom fan I have to say Kira DID kill her and was perfectly justified in doing so.

As fan of treating characters like fictional beings and not my friends I have to say that this conversation has nothing to do with the righteousness or damnation of Kira's actions.

Originally Posted by Skye629

Deadpool: The scene where Kira flipped the switch off DOES exist, its found in Special Edition movies (to help alleviate the confusion that the explosion from the Minerva's cannon was not the Freedom causing a nuclear explosion)

The scene is in the original too. I brought it up myself.

The problem is that with his reactor off, his phase shift is also off. And that blast is MASSIVE... Powerful enough to tear the Impulse (whose phase shift was ON) apart.

The shockwave should have killed Kira. Or the heat. Or shrapnel. But surviving explosions while inside a cockpit is kind of what CE people DO...

The point is that his survival is far less likely there than Stella's. The point is that while Kira's final attack may have killed Stella, it also may not. Neither event is internally inconsistent.

[QUOTE=Skye629;4790923]critically fatally wounding Stella ]/quote]

What wound?

Originally Posted by Skye629

(how this happened is pretty irrelevant imo, as she still died from whatever happened after/when the beam went through)

Did she die from whatever happened after the beam went through?

See, whatever she died of was invisible to the naked eye, which implies internal damage. Thing is, internal damage isn't instantaneous (which is why Shinn got to talk to her). Depending on its severity it can kill in ten minutes or ten hours.

[quagmire]

Originally Posted by Deadpool2000

The scene is in the original too. I brought it up myself.

The problem is that with his reactor off, his phase shift is also off. And that blast is MASSIVE... Powerful enough to tear the Impulse (whose phase shift was ON) apart.

The shockwave should have killed Kira. Or the heat. Or shrapnel. But surviving explosions while inside a cockpit is kind of what CE people DO...

The point is that his survival is far less likely there than Stella's. The point is that while Kira's final attack may have killed Stella, it also may not. Neither event is internally inconsistent.

You know why Kira didn't die by the heat, shockwaves, etc from the explosion? Because the Freedom took the brunt of it. Even with the Phase shift down, the Freedom still had basic armor protecting him. And as you saw the only part of the Freedom remaining was the cockpit area where it would be heavily reinforced to protect the pilot. The only BS thing about it is the head still remained intact! The cockpit wasn't compromised. Unlike the explosion from the Destroy where it was internal and they protruded into the cockpit fully exposing Stella to the heat, shockwaves, etc. Kira was shielded by the Freedom.

[Washu-Chan]

Originally Posted by rakusukira

so after this remaster, will we finally get our movie? hope so. been absent from this thread for a very long time!! good to see this thread is still alive and kicking!!

The real question is, will Morosawa be motivated to do it?

Or at least, retain her as a creative consultant, much like how Roddenberry was "promoted" to Executive Consultant for the Star Trek movies.

It's not like that she (or Fukuda) is the only person who knows her characters through and through, especially Lacus.

[Znozzy]

Originally Posted by Deadpool2000

So the show DOES give us a 100% guarantee that Kira killed Stella?

Again, show this. Don't just say it.

i don't need to show it, since the show supports my argument, not yours

Edit, Hell, lets go for it just because this is silly.



Kira stabbing the charged up beam cannons



Kira drawing his second beam saber to stab the charged up beam cannons again



Beam stabbed charged up beam cannons going boom



Stella trying to cover herself from explosions and shockwaves inside the cockpit



The Destroy's backpack gets blown off, causing more shockwaves inside the cockpit



Destroy, severely damaged and Shinn with Stella outside the cockpit, with a limp body.



Stella trying to talk while shivering in pain from her body dying from internal bleeding and shock trauma.

Then she died, dramatic, i know, but it's pretty simple going from the actual show, Kira finished the Destroy and Stella off.

Another thing.

How the hell did Neo's Windam manage to break in half upon landing? that's a first, even in this show. that entire scene does not add up in any possible way, lol.

[Kirayuki]

Originally Posted by Deadpool2000

Nor did I.

Remember, I am not arguing that Shinn killed her, or that Kira didn't.

I am arguing that the scene is vague and the true cause of death is uncertain. I have been very clear, and unfortunately repetitive, about this point.

Way to go to ignore my point.

Which proves nothing.

It tells you that the show itself doesn't deny the accusation from narrative viewpoint.

If you want to prove your point, don't only prove what the others did could probably kill her too. Tell us if the show blatantly said "Kira is not the killer", or anything that deny Shinn's accusation.

Sort of.

No nothing contradicts this, so it isn't "wrong" per se. But remember that this is fiction, not an alternate universe. No event happens that we aren't privy to. There isn't a "right" answer that we just never saw because none of this ever happened. The truth is that there IS no actual answer.

You could say he's the most likely suspect, but it remains vague.

Being vague and no clear answer means viewers are up to interpret things by itself, and they can't be totally wrong. It's fine and dandy if you think the true suspect can't be determined by hard evidences, however the narrative doesn't work on your favor. Your position itself is not entirely "correct" too.

And for all its worth, it is only vague from looking at hard evidences and actual situation. The narrative however, is not

[Znozzy]

Originally Posted by quagmire

You know why Kira didn't die by the heat, shockwaves, etc from the explosion? Because the Freedom took the brunt of it. Even with the Phase shift down, the Freedom still had basic armor protecting him. And as you saw the only part of the Freedom remaining was the cockpit area where it would be heavily reinforced to protect the pilot. The only BS thing about it is the head still remained intact! The cockpit wasn't compromised. Unlike the explosion from the Destroy where it was internal and they protruded into the cockpit fully exposing Stella to the heat, shockwaves, etc. Kira was shielded by the Freedom.

Honestly, one of the Freedom's most fine crafted works seems to be the cockpit area, it survived a full-powered Genesis blast from the back, a beam shot to the chest-vent area (that didn't slow it down at all). One can say that Zaft really builds good cockpits on their Nuclear powered mobile suits.

[BladeEntity]

Originally Posted by Znozzy

Honestly, one of the Freedom's most fine crafted works seems to be the cockpit area, it survived a full-powered Genesis blast from the back, a beam shot to the chest-vent area (that didn't slow it down at all). One can say that Zaft really builds good cockpits on their Nuclear powered mobile suits.

It's probably coated with a healthy amount of plot and little bit of pink fairy dust...

[Deadpool2000]

Originally Posted by quagmire

You know why Kira didn't die by the heat, shockwaves, etc from the explosion?

Nope.

But that's because the show never tells us.

Originally Posted by quagmire

Because the Freedom took the brunt of it. Even with the Phase shift down, the Freedom still had basic armor protecting him.

That doesn't actually make sense... You're going for a scientific explanation for a scene where science is thrown out the window.

From a realistic standpoint, this explosion was several orders of magnitudes greater than Stella's. It would be like if Stella was hit in the face with a noise maker and Kira was behind the wall when he was shot with a 120mm shell. Sure he has better protection, but the damage is so much greater it hardly matters.

Consider that the blast wave pushed the MINERVA away against its thrusters. The Freedom, massing so much less and with its power turned off, if it weren't just torn apart would have been flung accross the sea at several Gs. And if Kira survived that, the impact would have more than certainly killed him.

So science is out.

Originally Posted by Znozzy

i don't need to show it, since the show supports my argument, not yours

Showing her inside an exploding mobile suit does not prove your point.

More people have survived an exploding mobile suit than people have died from it. And Stella showed the least amount of physical damage (ie. NONE) than anyone else who died or lived through one.

Seems pretty vague to me.

Originally Posted by Kirayuki

Way to go to ignore my point.

I'll bite: What WAS your point.

Originally Posted by Kirayuki

It tells you that the show itself doesn't deny the accusation from narrative viewpoint.

Also tells you the show doesn't CARE who did it. The plot continues the same regardless of the plot. Doesn't matter who did it.

Doesn't make it any less vague.

Originally Posted by Kirayuki

If you want to prove your point, don't only prove what the others did could probably kill her too. Tell us if the show blatantly said "Kira is not the killer", or anything that deny Shinn's accusation.

My argument isn't that "Kira is not the killer."

My argument is "the show is vague on her cause of death."

I feel I have been very clear on this point.

Originally Posted by Kirayuki

Being vague and no clear answer means viewers are up to interpret things by itself, and they can't be totally wrong.

Yes you are up to interpret whatever you want, but yes, all options are, technically wrong. It wasn't really Kira, or Shinn, or her physionomy or any of those factors. It wasn't really anything. Because the show was vague.

The real answer is always that there is no answer.

You can wonder whether or not the top at the end of Inception would fall or keep spinning, but the REAL truth is that the screen cut to black. Neither happens.

It's Schroedinger's Cat except we never get to open the box.

Originally Posted by Kirayuki

It's fine and dandy if you think the true suspect can't be determined by hard evidences,

THIS isn't really up for debate. There IS no hard evidence.

Whether this was done on purpose or just an animation/writing oversight IS debatable. The fact that there is no hard evidence isn't debatable at all.

[Kirayuki]

Originally Posted by Deadpool2000

Also tells you the show doesn't CARE who did it. The plot continues the same regardless of the plot. Doesn't matter who did it.

Doesn't make it any less vague.

But it still stated Kira is the one who killed her according to Shinn's accusation.

My argument isn't that "Kira is not the killer."

My argument is "the show is vague on her cause of death."

I feel I have been very clear on this point.

We know that and you don't need to repeat it

Yes you are up to interpret whatever you want, but yes, all options are, technically wrong. It wasn't really Kira, or Shinn, or her physionomy or any of those factors. It wasn't really anything. Because the show was vague.

The real answer is always that there is no answer.

Except the narrative tell you that Kira is the killer. Final decision lies on the judge.

THIS isn't really up for debate. There IS no hard evidence.

Whether this was done on purpose or just an animation/writing oversight IS debatable. The fact that there is no hard evidence isn't debatable at all.

You don't need hard evidence to tell who kills her.

[Znozzy]

Originally Posted by Deadpool2000

Nope.

But that's because the show never tells us.



That doesn't actually make sense... You're going for a scientific explanation for a scene where science is thrown out the window.

From a realistic standpoint, this explosion was several orders of magnitudes greater than Stella's. It would be like if Stella was hit in the face with a noise maker and Kira was behind the wall when he was shot with a 120mm shell. Sure he has better protection, but the damage is so much greater it hardly matters.

Consider that the blast wave pushed the MINERVA away against its thrusters. The Freedom, massing so much less and with its power turned off, if it weren't just torn apart would have been flung accross the sea at several Gs. And if Kira survived that, the impact would have more than certainly killed him.

So science is out.

Minerva wasnt pushed away due to the blast wave, you can clearly see the Minerva turning before the blast wave hits it.

Showing her inside an exploding mobile suit does not prove your point.

Yes, yes it does. if you sit inside a exploding cockpit as your mobile suit blows up, you die. the only person not dying from it is Mwu(TWICE!), and that was a straight up retcon the first time.

More people have survived an exploding mobile suit than people have died from it. And Stella showed the least amount of physical damage (ie. NONE) than anyone else who died or lived through one.

Seems pretty vague to me.

To you, not the rest of the viewers. it's not vague, it's so simple it doesn't need to be spelled out by a picture flashing by like Heine, or by a cockpit shot of the pilotsuit's visor-cracking like Anew, Nicol, Sting, Auel and the Three druggies.

Kira made the finishing blow, Stella died as a result caused by the chain-explosions.

Emma sheen didn't have any visable damage when she died in Zeta, but we knew why she died, she got hit by debris, Stella got a cockpit full of explosions and shockwaves. The show isn't vague at all, you are just refusing to face the facts that the show delivered.

You can't seriously sit here and try to twist something so obvious and simple as Kira killing Stella. I've followed Gundam related threads for years and i've never ever seen anyone attempt this before, so kudos to you for doing so, but it's not working, the show simply doesn't leave her cause of death vague at all.

Originally Posted by BladeEntity

It's probably coated with a healthy amount of plot and little bit of pink fairy dust...

Of course, nothing beats a special cockpit coating of pink fairy dust.

[quagmire]

Originally Posted by Deadpool2000

Nope.

But that's because the show never tells us.

The show doesn't have to tell us every little bit of detail. No shows break down every detail and show the audience everything. Things are implied because most people can put 1+1 together and figure out the chain of events.

That doesn't actually make sense... You're going for a scientific explanation for a scene where science is thrown out the window.

From a realistic standpoint, this explosion was several orders of magnitudes greater than Stella's. It would be like if Stella was hit in the face with a noise maker and Kira was behind the wall when he was shot with a 120mm shell. Sure he has better protection, but the damage is so much greater it hardly matters.

Consider that the blast wave pushed the MINERVA away against its thrusters. The Freedom, massing so much less and with its power turned off, if it weren't just torn apart would have been flung accross the sea at several Gs. And if Kira survived that, the impact would have more than certainly killed him.

So science is out.

Here you are saying science is out the window, but then you bring science back into it by saying how the Freedom should have been flung out and impact the ocean at high G's.

This is a TV show. All it has to do is give a plausible reason why Kira survived and that is how he survived. In real life, yeah Kira probably would be a goner if an explosion that big hit him. But, this isn't real life and the plausible reason for it is because the Freedom absorbed the impact of the explosion and the cockpit area is really strong( including the head!).

I'm out of this discussion. Deadpool, for some reason you are trying your hardest to clear Kira of Stella's death. You say you are not, but you are. Saying the show has to spell it out for you before you say something as fact is ridiculous as no show does it.

[Deadpool2000]

Originally Posted by Kirayuki

But it still stated Kira is the one who killed her according to Shinn's accusation.

Which, shock and awe, isn't proof of anything.

Originally Posted by Kirayuki

We know that and you don't need to repeat it

You know, I really didn't think I had to, but people keep asking me to prove Kira's innocence...

Originally Posted by Kirayuki

Except the narrative tell you that Kira is the killer. Final decision lies on the judge.

There IS no judge because this isn't a court. This is FICTION. It isn't real. The only events that happen are what we have access to.

If the show provides no answers then there ARE no answers.

How often do Coordinators have to pee? You can believe it is just as often as Naturals, you can believe it is more often than Naturals, you can believe it is less often than Natural. You can come up with pseudo scientific conjecture to prove any of the these statements. The truth? We don't know. Because it doesn't matter.

Originally Posted by Kirayuki

You don't need hard evidence to tell who kills her.

Okay. Arthur killed her. I have zero hard evidence of this, but who cares, right?

Originally Posted by Znozzy

Minerva wasnt pushed away due to the blast wave, you can clearly see the Minerva turning before the blast wave hits it.

And if you push play for another second, you see the Minerva being pushed away by the blast wave. Seriously, the very next scene is a close up of the Minerva being pushed away from the camera.

Originally Posted by Znozzy

Yes, yes it does. if you sit inside a exploding cockpit as your mobile suit blows up, you die. the only person not dying from it is Mwu(TWICE!),

And Andrew. And Kira. And Athrun. And everyone else Kira disables without shooting the cockpit.

Originally Posted by Znozzy

To you, not the rest of the viewers.

No, it's vague to EVERYONE. You can choose to believe the show wanted you to think Kira did it and just didn't do a very good job at it, but it's STILL vague.

Originally Posted by Znozzy

Emma sheen

Isn't in this universe.

Originally Posted by quagmire

The show doesn't have to tell us every little bit of detail. No shows break down every detail and show the audience everything. Things are implied because most people can put 1+1 together and figure out the chain of events.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conjecture

Originally Posted by quagmire

Here you are saying science is out the window, but then you bring science back into it by saying how the Freedom should have been flung out and impact the ocean at high G's.

*sighs*

Allow me to simplify:

Both scenes ignore science and trying to use science is silly. Here's how scientifically unsound the scene is.

That's how I start by saying science is out the window and end up talking about Gs and impacts.

Do you follow now?

Originally Posted by quagmire

This is a TV show. All it has to do is give a plausible reason why Kira survived and that is how he survived. In real life, yeah Kira probably would be a goner if an explosion that big hit him. But, this isn't real life

Take that quote. Copy and Paste it onto Word. Have Word find and replace every instance of "Kira" with Stella and every instance of "him" with "her."

You can now begin to understand why the situation is vague.

Originally Posted by quagmire

Saying the show has to spell it out for you before you say something as fact is ridiculous as no show does it.

Except... THIS ONE.

The show spells out who kills Miguel, Aisha, Nicol, Tolle, Siegel Clyne, Clotho, Orga, Shanti, Azrael, Patrick Zala, Rau, Heine, Aeul and Sting...

Actually, the only two characters I can't think of a clear cut, no doubt killer is Stella and Durandal.

Both I think are on purpose, both I think are done for opposite reasons.

[Kirayuki]

Originally Posted by Deadpool2000

Which, shock and awe, isn't proof of anything.

It proves the show agreed with Kira as the killer.

You know, I really didn't think I had to, but people keep asking me to prove Kira's innocence...

What you did does not prove Kira's innocence at all.

There IS no judge because this isn't a court. This is FICTION. It isn't real. The only events that happen are what we have access to.

If the show provides no answers then there ARE no answers.

There are two, the director and his wife, the scriptwriter.

There is only "no answer" if you refuse to face it.

Okay. Arthur killed her. I have zero hard evidence of this, but who cares, right?

Your fact are not legit because you're not the character from the universe.

[Znozzy]

Originally Posted by Deadpool2000

And if you push play for another second, you see the Minerva being pushed away by the blast wave. Seriously, the very next scene is a close up of the Minerva being pushed away from the camera.

one can interpret it that way, since the Minerva was already turning (as shown earlier) one can see it as the Minerva getting hit by the shockwave.

Either way, the Minerva was clearly turning before it got hit by the shockwave, but i'm not going to deny that it might've been pushed away aswell when it got hit by it.

And Andrew. And Kira. And Athrun. And everyone else Kira disables without shooting the cockpit.

And Andrew, Yeah, that's true. But he came out of it with a dead wife/girlfriend, and a few body pieces gone.

Kira was saved by the Strike's emergency hatch. Athrun's cockpit wasnt breached during the Savior incident, and he was shown being fine during the Aegis explosion he got caught in while escaping.

No, it's vague to EVERYONE. You can choose to believe the show wanted you to think Kira did it and just didn't do a very good job at it, but it's STILL vague.

No, it's vague to you, not everyone else.

Isn't in this universe.

Doesn't matter, similar circumstances in the same Metaseries, it's hilarious how you keep ignoring SEED related proof to keep your theory going.

*sighs*

Congratulations, you and the viewers/posters of this thread have something similar going on right now.

Except... THIS ONE.

The show spells out who kills Miguel, Aisha, Nicol, Tolle, Siegel Clyne, Clotho, Orga, Shanti, Azrael, Patrick Zala, Rau, Heine, Aeul and Sting...

Actually, the only two characters I can't think of a clear cut, no doubt killer is Stella and Durandal.

Both I think are on purpose, both I think are done for opposite reasons.

Let's sum it up with a link, since you provided one to wikipedia earlier.

TL;DR regarding your thought about this entire incident being vague:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrjwaqZfjIY

[Deadpool2000]

Originally Posted by Kirayuki

It proves the show agreed with Kira as the killer.

Shinn thinking Kira is the killer proves that Shinn thinks Kira is the killer.

Originally Posted by Kirayuki

What you did does not prove Kira's innocence at all.

I know. I said that.

Originally Posted by Kirayuki

There are two, the director and his wife, the scriptwriter.

Nope, not even them. Once the show airs, the only way to change is a RetCon.

HD Remaster could do it.

Originally Posted by Kirayuki

Your fact are not legit because you're not the character from the universe.

Actually, as passive, omniscient observers, the audience is better suited than the characters to make that decision.

Originally Posted by Znozzy

Either way, the Minerva was clearly turning before it got hit by the shockwave, but i'm not going to deny that it might've been pushed away aswell when it got hit by it.

Might? The wind blowing past, the ship tilting and moving off camera is a MIGHT?

Originally Posted by Znozzy

And Andrew, Yeah, that's true. But he came out of it with a dead wife/girlfriend, and a few body pieces gone.

While Stella didn't have a SCRATCH on her. She actually had, thanks to the magic of animation, fewer wounds on her AFTER the explosion than she did before...

Originally Posted by Znozzy

Kira was saved by the Strike's emergency hatch. Athrun's cockpit wasnt breached during the Savior incident, and he was shown being fine during the Aegis explosion he got caught in while escaping.

None of which proves that THIS explosion killed Stella.

Originally Posted by Znozzy

Doesn't matter, similar circumstances in the same Metaseries, it's hilarious how you keep ignoring SEED related proof to keep your theory going.

It's hillarious how you keep bringing up unrelated scenes as if they have any bearing here and aren't even equivalent.

[Kirayuki]

Originally Posted by Deadpool2000

Shinn thinking Kira is the killer proves that Shinn thinks Kira is the killer.

No, not only that.

It proves the show agreed with Kira as the killer. Nobody denied his accusation. And he was the one observing the incident in close vicinity.

Nope, not even them. Once the show airs, the only way to change is a RetCon.

HD Remaster could do it.

The show has aired, and the story has clearly no objection with Kira as the killer.

And the one who planned and implemented the RetCon are those two. They have higher position than RetCon because they can control them.

Actually, as passive, omniscient observers, the audience is better suited than the characters to make that decision.

The characters are controlled by those two I mentioned above. So his word is the same as those two if no one try to deny.

And what audience ? Everybody here said the same thing excluding you.

[Rising Dragon]

Originally Posted by Deadpool2000

Might? The wind blowing past, the ship tilting and moving off camera is a MIGHT?

You don't like your ridiculous argument used against you? Who'd've thought.

Are you done trying to wash the blood off Kira's hands? Because the more this goes on, the more it becomes apparent. You don't like anything negative being applied to him even if it canonically happens, and it's gotten to the point that you're arguing about the most trivial things to try and prove it.