[Anime] Episode 34 : The Theory of Greed

[Ke0]

Actually my spoiler was off, since I finally saw the RAW, did anwser a few questions though

Spoiler:

Ed does realize what Greed's armor is made of, and he uses alchemy to break it down. But the breakdown only lasts a few seconds before Greed can cover that area backup, so Ed uses the technique to expose a spot on ED's chest, and stabs him, killing him. Ed didn't know he was going to die die, then Greed explains why. Ed thinks he was joking around until Greed shriveled up haha

[avmoghe]

Spoiler:

WOW!! Absolutely kick ass episode. Fight between Ed and Greed was awesome. I have a lot of questions now though... I'll put them up later.

The main question is what happened with Mustang and the Ishbal people.

[Yebyosh]

Originally Posted by dreamless

well,

Spoiler:

Greed seems to have a better demise than in the manga at least... so long Greed.

You do mean better for him than for us, right?

Spoiler for Greed in ep 34:

His death here make less of an impact to us as well as lending little in moving the plot, unlike in the manga.

Originally Posted by Ke0

Spoiler:

Ed realizes what Greed is made of (Carbon diamond,, strongest element in the human body, I think it's called Carbon diamond not sure) So he modifies his blade arm thing, to become CD's weakness (which I forgot) which kills Greed

Spoiler:

Incorrect. Greed lost his undying state when the sigil laid down robbed it away. He's mortal when Ed faced him. Ed only needed to break down the Ultimate Shield (done by changing the strong inter-layer covalent bonds of diamond to the weak Van der Waal's forces of normal carbon) then attack him physically. Ed's blade is not superior to diamond.

Spoiler for Points on episode 34:

1. Greed tells Edward that Homunculus are rendered vulnerable when in the presence of the bodies of the dead people they were made in the likeness of.

2. Dante's body was sliced in two. Likely culprit - Lust.

3. Lyra knows all about Greed.

4. Lust keeps referring to a person who supposedly coordinated all of this (as if referring to him/her as the mastermind) while constantly looking towards Dante's mansion.

5. Greed is a wuss in the anime.

6. No Fuhrer action for you manga fans. Accept it.

7. Archer looks forward to having his lil army of Chimeras.

8. Gluttony had a change of diet. Beef & Dog meat mixed with some rhesus meat to spare.

9. The anime crew really paid a lot of attention to drawing Lust. She looks better than usual.

Spoiler for speculations:

As someone had mentioned long ago, it is likely that there is soul transference/switching in the anime. Lyra is likely to be Dante herself with either Lyra's soul switched to Dante's body (which was sliced apart) or taken over by Dante's soul.

I don't think that a weak Alchemist like Lyra would be so knowledgeable in the affairs of Homunculus as to be the mastermind. That plus the other Sins' constant references to "that person" while looking in the direction of the mansion. "That person" made Greed as well as "should be let known" of what's happened. The mastermind is therefore Dante.

Dante must have lived a long time since Greed was sealed 130-140 years ago and Greed recognised her. However he does not recognise "Lyra" in this episode, he only realises it after his undying state gets taken away. So is it not funny that no one in Dublith questions or make a local legend of the 130++ years old Alchemist living in a mansion in the forests? Incontinuity?

Spoiler for personal thoughts:

I don't really like the adaptations done in Greed's arc. It is hard not to when you had read the manga's original version. Izumi's character has been rendered into a brooding mother, losing the toughness and comedic value (which is part of FMA). Shigu is reduced to a side role of useless value when he was supposed to be Izumi's protector and comedic partner. The raid into the Devil's Nest was much better. Greed's demise was better handled as well. Overall in my personal opinion, because they decided to handle the background of the Homunculus differently, the anime crew has restricted themselves to this version. This does not bear well for BONES ability to create an interesting storyline for the remainder of the anime series as their own storyline creations pale in comparison to the manga, e.g. Ed's certification and now Greed's arc. The remaining episodes will 90% be of BONES own creations and that gives me a slight chill judging on what they have done so far...

[dreamless]

Originally Posted by Yebyosh

You do mean better for him than for us, right?

Spoiler for Greed in ep 34:

His death here make less of an impact to us as well as lending little in moving the plot, unlike in the manga.

Spoiler for Greed:

well yea I guess for him... since in the anime the death makes him look more tragic/heroic/like a good guy/etc. etc. than in the manga, where he's just a wuss and maniac

Spoiler for Dante and Lyra:

well, this certainly reminds me of Barbem in RahXephon the moment I saw Dante's remains in this episode... well, considering RahXephon is also BONES' work... I guess it's quite likely that Dante is someone who can transfer her soul into others to continue living, attaining a virtual immortality... I think it's safe to assume that "master" Lust keeps referring to is Dante. The question for now is what's Lyra's role in this. Is she willingly cooperate with Dante, like Helena in RahXephon? Is she doing it to get revenge against the Elric brothers? Is her soul gone or merged with Dante's? Are we going to see Lyra as the end boss? Hmm...

Spoiler for next episode preview:

good, a lot more Lust, and more Lust must be a good thing. It seems we will see the love story involving Lust

[LeafNinja]

Spoiler:

A shame about Greed, but it is interesting to see the direction the anime is taking these events. Would have been nice though to see Bradley in action, hopefully in the future.

[Akichan]

In response to Yebyosh about Greed and Dante

Spoiler:

Dante the mastermind? That doesn't seem to be the case. If she can do soul transfer, then perhaps the soul was transfered from the original person.

Also just because that was where Greed was 'born', it doesn't mean that it was Dante who did it.

However, how he recognizes her is a bit weird, I'll admit, I just think it might not be so clear cut here.

[Yebyosh]

Originally Posted by Akichan

In response to Yebyosh about Greed and Dante

Spoiler:

Dante the mastermind? That doesn't seem to be the case. If she can do soul transfer, then perhaps the soul was transfered from the original person.

Also just because that was where Greed was 'born', it doesn't mean that it was Dante who did it.

However, how he recognizes her is a bit weird, I'll admit, I just think it might not be so clear cut here.

Spoiler:

It was my personal speculation as I said. I might be wrong but so far I believe this is what I interprete of the clues laid.

I'm not too sure what is your reasoning for "that doesn't seem to be the case.". Let me explain. Soul transference applied to her means that Dante can transfer her soul (Dante) into another vessel. In this case, I believe she transfered her soul into Lyra, taking over Lyra's body. I did consider that the vessel Dante might not be the primary incarnation of the mastermind but could be the 2nd or 3rd or whatever.

Considering that Greed does bear a hint of recognition at Dante, isn't it reasonable to think that she's the creator of Greed. Otherwise why would he say he's going there to check up on something, to see a familiar face, then showing that expression when he sees her at the window (and she just stood there nonchalantly), then leaving without a bother. He did not and cannot see anyone during his imprisonment. Therefore a reasonable deduction is that he knew Dante before his imprisonment.

Not to forget that Dante show many weird behaviour and philosophies that Izumi has questioned (anime crew trying to give clues on "Dante is not a good girl...").

If you think about it, many of the prominent dead characters have suffered deaths that are displayed on screen i.e. murderer moves in, some action, a hint of blood or of what takes place, then the series show the remains or body. But for Dante's case, all we get is the split corpse. So what is that supposed to imply? It highly means that her supposed 'murder' is very suspicious. Why? Because they do not want to show you something regarding the subject. In this case, what Dante was doing or did before her corpse got split.

Sidenote: Many people have got obsessed with the anime having to follow the manga. But the anime crew is not the manga crew. They just took whatever manga material they had when the anime project was started and set forth their own version of storyline. If they could incorporate any manga material that was published within their time frame, they would do it but they are obligated to follow everything in the manga. Wrath is not a prominent character in the anime. The Fuhrer does not get to show why he rulez. The Sins are Homunculi as Homunculi are Sins in the anime (manga: the Sins are Homunculi made to be Sins). The wonderful manga Greed arc was not followed by the anime. The mastermind in the manga might not be the mastermind in the anime.

[Lunas]

Spoiler for just saw a subbed version:

OMG the fight was awesome ed figured greed used carbon to make a substance hard as diamond and to counter act it ed transmuted it to some thing softer and then he eventualy stabbed him in the chest. In his dieng breaths greed told ed the weakness of the homucouli that if they are faced with the bones of the person that was attempted to be resurrected the homucouli will be paralysed. I dont know what is going on exactly with Lyra but i think dante either told her about greed or did as some one said transfered her soul to her. All and all great episode.

Spoiler for lust revalations:

she mentioned some thing strange that she is the "new Lust" like she wasnt the first lust

[zhoos]

Spoiler:

not sure who ryla really is, but she possess the power to make greed puke out all the fragments of the philosopher's stone. Without the stones, the homunculus will lose their regeneration powers.

Greed got his head smashed off in episode 33, but he grew it back on. So it means that Edward's piercing into his stomach wouldn't kill him. Now I guess we all know how to kill the Homunculi.

However, who is Ryla? Is she the "one" all the homunculi were talking about? Pride? Or the strongest alchemist in the world? She can't be another homunculi, since we deduced that Wrath is the only one to be able to use Alchemy, and the rest of them don't know how to. Furthermore, the alchemy she used was described by Greed to be very powerful.

Greed also said "Am I going to ask her for forgiveness?" when he went to visit Dante. Why? What does Dante giving him forgiveness have anything to do with Greed's existence?

Lust also said "I'm the current Lust." Does this mean there are homunculi produced all the time, and they replace the others? Maybe this means there will be another Greed in the future, and that there could only be 7 homunculi at any time.

Just my thoughts...

[Guido]

Recently saw episode 34 and helped a lot to clarify some doubts about the Homunculi.

Spoiler:

At the first, I thought that this episode could have foreshadowed the last clue about the manner how Homunculi after transmutation are capable to spring to life and pass the gateway to the world of living.

Instead, it made me felt relieved when Greed (on his last breath) volunteered the information to Edward that Homunculi become paralyzed when they are exposed to the bones of the dead humans whose transmutation failed.

Greed told this to Edward for two important reasons:
a) Greed, unlike the other Homunculi, just desired to make a new life regardless of his present condition. He didn't wanted to take orders from anyone, he just want to spend a carefree life. He said it, he was 'greedy', after all.

b)Greed acknowledged Ed's prowess and genius during the fight. Specially left speechless on how Ed managed to remove his shield. He expected Ed came ready to kill him to measure the real extent of Ed's strength. Greed realized that he was cornered after the incident with Lyra, but at no moment did he resigned to die wimpy. If he was going to die, he wanted to receive a honorable end from someone even stronger and wittier than him. So to realize that his existence ended being worthy, after all.

Because of those reasons explained above, Greed confided Edward the secret due that he now realized that Ed's got the strength, the craft, the knowledge, and the guts to oppose the Homunculi. Ed was missing that detail, though.

Greed decided to trust Ed and encouraging him to destroy the Homunculi, not because for being good guy, however, because Ed earned his respect and realized the boy to be a man.

As for Greed, I felt compassion (not pity) and some kindness for him. Although he cynical admitted his defects and vices, at no moment did he ever mistreated or turned over his allies. He did cared for them maybe because, like him, they ended being turned freaks and wanted to either return to the normal lives or starting a new one. Which I think Greed sympathized with them.

Second, this episode exposed the fact that there can be a previous Homunculus which originally occupied the spot that the current ones are holding.
I mean, Lust commented that there was a previous 'Lust' long before she was borned; she is the new whom replaced the previous 'Lust'.
I'm still perplexed about the "person" that Lust constantly talks about. That said person who wanted Greed dead, and who is boss to the other Homunculi.
Is that person Dante? or could it be Pride?

As for the Dante incident, I do not have words for it. Lyra's behavior was indeed suspicious and agree that Dante might had done soul transferring alchemy on both of them.

Now that Ed knows it, I'm looking forward to the Elric's performing some bad-ass kicking action against the Homunculi bunch.

Specially against the Envy, Lust, and Gluttony trio.
(Man, I'm sicked of watching that retarded blubber around onscreen. I hope Ed's blow him up for what he did to Al. I'm not going to miss that baldy once he's wasted.

And Envy, sure he-she pisses me off without mentioning trying out my temper. He and Lust are going to be really tough customers to tackle, before Pride makes his/her triumphant appearance. I didn't forget about Wrath and Sloth, though.)

[kamij0]

a rather off topic post, but i guess its about time they will change the opening scene

[Gabriel710]

Well one thing i know im glad i never read the manga when i had the chance. Learned my lesson from Naruto and Kenshin cus the manga is always superior.
Damn the fight scenes in this ep freking rocks. Plus Greed was hella cool. Cant wait to see Mustang and crew again.

After watching this ep it gave me a feeling that its gonna be Mustang that will beat and kill Pride(asuming that he is you know who).

[Mooie]

I'm just curious. Does the new Sin like Lust have the same ability of the old Lust or does the special ability change every "generation"?

[Lunas]

Originally Posted by zhoos

Spoiler:

not sure who ryla really is, but she possess the power to make greed puke out all the fragments of the philosopher's stone. Without the stones, the homunculus will lose their regeneration powers.

Greed got his head smashed off in episode 33, but he grew it back on. So it means that Edward's piercing into his stomach wouldn't kill him. Now I guess we all know how to kill the Homunculi.

However, who is Ryla? Is she the "one" all the homunculi were talking about? Pride? Or the strongest alchemist in the world? She can't be another homunculi, since we deduced that Wrath is the only one to be able to use Alchemy, and the rest of them don't know how to. Furthermore, the alchemy she used was described by Greed to be very powerful.

Greed also said "Am I going to ask her for forgiveness?" when he went to visit Dante. Why? What does Dante giving him forgiveness have anything to do with Greed's existence?

Lust also said "I'm the current Lust." Does this mean there are homunculi produced all the time, and they replace the others? Maybe this means there will be another Greed in the future, and that there could only be 7 homunculi at any time.

Just my thoughts...

i dont think lyra has that big a role in the series she was a alchemnist of considerable power but what she did to greed could have been taught to her by dante

Spoiler:

the alchemey that lyra used caused greed to be paralysed and regurgeitate the stones he was in the process of being sealed but he steped out of the symbol that was the one used to seal a homunculi also the symbol has the crusified snake so maybe that symbol holds alot of power agisnt the homunculi

and

Spoiler for not sure how much of a spoiler this is but if you havent seen ep 32 then ya:

i dont think the red stones have any thing to do with the regeneration of the homunculi all the red stones do is allow them to become the sins and recover all thier memorys of behind the gate it also makes thier teeth pointy and thier eyes like cats and red

Originally Posted by Mooie

I'm just curious. Does the new Sin like Lust have the same ability of the old Lust or does the special ability change every "generation"?

well i would think that no it depends on each encarnation of the sin on which power they have for instance wrath has a unique power the sins havent seen before he can preform some alchemey

[locknoir]

have to say this was one hell of an episode and I enjoyed every second of it. Especially the part were ed screamed

Spoiler:

because of the dead of greed the scream contained some much emotions i certainly hope they get someone good to do the voice of ed in english, cose it would be a waste to have a weird guy doing some emotionless voice ;\

the fight between the major and that other "State" alchemist guy was quite intresting as well, the major showed he isnt all talk there and that he's capable of putting up and good hand to hand fight, found it quite cool

another good fma episode

[zhoos]

Originally Posted by locknoir

i certainly hope they get someone good to do the voice of ed in english, cose it would be a waste to have a weird guy doing some emotionless voice ;\

Argh - every anime that was translated to english I have watched sucks. It's not the anime, it's the damn translation. It really takes out the emotions, the situation, ... it just sounds really awkward.

I rather they leave it in Jap, and just subtitle the entire thing.

[Riese]

Originally Posted by Yebyosh

You do mean better for him than for us, right?

Spoiler for Greed in ep 34:

His death here make less of an impact to us as well as lending little in moving the plot, unlike in the manga.

Hmm, what do you mean by this? *Really wants access to the manga* ;_;

Questions based on ep 34:

Spoiler:

Hmm, I was figuring that Lyra would be Sloth but I don't know if Sloth can change shape like Envy. Also, where did Greed get crystals? If he was sealed under that symbol before, I would have assumed he'd have hucked them there. Well, I guess the stones stay in tact so maybe they were still there then he could eat them again. Eeeeeeeeeeew.

Also, wasn't it Envy who sealed away Greed before? It seems to me that Envy is the oldest of the current Homunculi. It's strange that when Lust and Gluttony encountered Greed, Lust greeted him saying she was the "current" Lust.

I'm guessing that attempting human transmutation has occured far more often than 7 times. Greed's death makes it known how Homunculi can die. I wonder if the first Lust died, but even if she didn't, hmm. Suppose there are 10 attempts at human transmutation the same week there are 7 slots for "sins."

Spoiler for Manga v Anime, spoilers galore!:

How far has the anime diverged now?
I know that:
-Shaw Tucker should be dead. Makes me wonder who made the chimeras in the manga.
-Barry lives.
-Wrath is really Fuhrer, not the little kid.

Anything else?

[zhoos]

Originally Posted by Lunas

i dont think lyra has that big a role in the series she was a alchemnist of considerable power but what she did to greed could have been taught to her by dante

Spoiler:

the alchemey that lyra used caused greed to be paralysed and regurgeitate the stones he was in the process of being sealed but he steped out of the symbol that was the one used to seal a homunculi also the symbol has the crusified snake so maybe that symbol holds alot of power agisnt the homunculi

and

Spoiler for not sure how much of a spoiler this is but if you havent seen ep 32 then ya:

i dont think the red stones have any thing to do with the regeneration of the homunculi all the red stones do is allow them to become the sins and recover all thier memorys of behind the gate it also makes thier teeth pointy and thier eyes like cats and red

After reading what the other people have said:

Spoiler:

There is a possibility that Ryla is the new Dante. Looking at the fact that Greed went to "her" house to ask for forgiveness, meaning that Dante might have created him more than 130-140 years ago before he was imprisoned. Like our friends here said, she might have performed some soul transfer to Ryla. This might have allowed Dante to live for the longest time ever... or whatever her soul was called before Dante. After all, Ryla performed a very powerful alchemy that amazed Greed.

But this is just speculation. Ryla herself said "Oh you mean Lady Dante? She's over there." It might mean the soul just took over people's bodies... her true form (spirit maybe) might be someone else. And Greed probably recognized him/her/it. This might really support the theory of Dante transferring her soul to Ryla, looking for a new host. Why not? Ryla sure is hotter than Dante... (tee hee)

And what caused Greed to be paralyzed wasn't the alchemy, it was the bones of the failed transmutation, just like Greed said. Well... just wanted to clarify. As for the crucified snake, Edward has that symbol on his trench jacket, Al has it on his left shoulder, Izumi has it on her... erm... above her left bosom. So it might be a Sensi-Student-clan-whatever u call it thing. A symbol of their lineage of alchemy. It might really mean something symbolic - after all in biblical forms, the snake was the embodiment of evil (the sins), and crucifing it meant to kill it or bring redemption to it.

And I really still think the red stones allow the homunculi to be near immortal. With the red stones, Greed grew his head back (!). Without them, Greed died from Ed's stab. Having his head taken off was a more mortal blow than being stabbed in the chest/stomach.

[dreamless]

Originally Posted by Riese

Hmm, what do you mean by this? *Really wants access to the manga* ;_;

Spoiler for manga and anime Greed:

Personally I don't think the manga version of Greed's death scene is better than anime version. It's not worse neither. They are just completely different. the manga version has advanced the story a lot, but so does the anime version. I wouldn't compare them to say which one is better or worse because they just don't have much in common to compare. But for the character Geed the anime version definitely treats him better. Dying at the hands of the main charater is better than dissolve into nothing in some strong-acid-like liquid. Also he expressed his idea of "greed"/"freedom" better in the anime version which makes him look more like a sarcastic tragic hero rather than just a useless maniac.

More about Ryla and Dante, speculations

Spoiler:

well, I think the scene where Ryla points to Dante's remain could mean that the real "master" is not named Dante or Ryla, it just takes over their bodies at some point in time, so Dante is indeed dead, but the "parasitic soul" got attached to Ryla. And if the "soul transfer" theory is indeed correct, it's also possible that the hosts still keep their consciousness, not being really taken over completely, as hinted in the talks between Dante and Izumi and I guess Greed and Ryla. They just willingly accept the "parasitic soul" to attach to them for one reason or another. (Dante for her ideal, Ryla for revenge?)

[Anthias]

This was an incredibly good episode. I thought it was all well done, and left me thinking "wow" over and over

I have a lot of theories that this has given birth to, my favourite, tho unlikely, is below:

Spoiler:

Ryla is not dante. Ryla killed dante. that scared greed, and greed finally learned something in those momants the other homuncuuli allready knew. The other homunculi all want to become human. It has been stated that the key difference between humans and homunculi is that Homunculi have no soul, and that this is why they can not perform alchemy. We also know that homunculi eat the red stone. Somebody (possibly the elrics dad, or possibly dante) succeeded a while ago in doing what ed did with al - they attached a soul to an object. But here it is: That object was Ryla - a homunculi. she became an ensouled homunculi - good as human, able to perform alchemy, with the philosophers stone inside her. Raw power. She's been getting around being what Lust and crew want to become. And she has been (up till now) clever enough to keep a very low profile. She is far more important because of all this than any of us dreamed before now. What you think ?

Yeah, I know its a tad far fetched, But I think it would be soooo cool