Whats with all these Yaoi manga releases?

[NeoSam]

Originally Posted by tsuraramai

Shotacon for women - ~usually~ written by women (not always), feature homosexual relationships primarily between an older/larger man and a younger/smaller boy. The submissive partner may not actually be underaged, but is drawn like an adolescent either way... a common trick is to have high-school aged boys who look like elementary schoolers (like Momiji in Fruits Basket, or Hani in Ouran) or to give human characteristics to animals... Usually there's a cutesy storyline and sex is generally only about 25/60% of the story length. Sometimes there isn't any sex at all.

women's shota antholgies: Shota Mimi Love, Shota Tama
women's shota artists: Mizuno Tohko, Miroku Kotoko, Kamei Yogorouta

I know about this stuff. not news to me.

Originally Posted by tsuraramai

Shotacon for men - ~usually~ written by men (not always), usually feature adolescents with each other (either experimentation with another boy or with a little girl) OR with an older woman. The characters are almost always actually underage (elementary schoolish) and the emphasis is almost always pure porn. If there's a story at all, it's only a few pages. Censorship is usually more negligent... and for whatever reason, there's a lot of emphasis on one or more characters not being circumsized.

men's shota anthologies: Himitsu no Shounen Chigi, Shounen ai no Bigaku, Love Shounen Shikou
men's shota artists: Po-ju, Mitsui Jun, Tsukimori Izumi

A boy with another little girl, in shotacon for men, nothing new there.
A boy with older women, nothing new there either. (I remember one manga about a young boy with his harem of older women )

This type of stuff I know it exists in magazines for men and aimed at men.

But this: a boy with other boy/s in shotacon for men thats news to me, I have never seen this.

I'm not into this stuff, but just curious to know what stuff is aimed at men and what stuff is aimed at women. shotacon (boy with another boy) aimed at men and run in magazines for men, thats news to me.

I used to browse many magazines for men, just to see what type of stuff is aimed at adult men, but thankfully I never got to see those type of magazines that feature shotacon(boy with other boy) for men.

Originally Posted by tsuraramai

Shotacon isn't generally featured in the regular BL monthlies either... it's a fringe interest, even for women, and many BL fans would rather be caught dead than oggling little kids in any context. Stories that are obviously shotacon are run in their own anthologies and are often printed in tankouban form on their own comic imprints (if at all). A few stories with younger-looking submissives do make the regular mags, but they're usually not actually shotacon by definition (the characters are of-age)

Thanks tsuraramai for the info

Edit:

Diedrupo, sorry to disagree with you about this, but you were totally right about this.

I just asked a friend that spent quite some time in japan, and he said: "Yes, but lets not talk about this"

[fict_ticious]

What ISN'T with all these yaoi releases? I don't think there's a complete listing of all the yaoi and yuri, but my impression so far is that the amount of that stuff available is pretty much the same. Point me in the right direction if you think otherwise

[Chiibi]

Er, there is definitely more yaoi manga over here in the US as opposed to yuri. No doubt about that. In fact, the only yuri manga I can think of that's been translated to English is Utena. Oo;

[tsuraramai]

Only very recently has yuri/shoujo ai become a viable genre unto itself (partially through aggressive overseas interest and the current boom in manga for adult women). Until the advent of Yurihime and Yuri Shimai, lesbian stories were limited to what could appeal to men within the context of the existing porn and seinen genres and what would appeal to girls within the context of the existing shoujo genre.

As far as I know, there are still no all girls love comic labels and only the two big semi annual anthologies...

Interest in the genre is growing, but it's still a relatively young one... and certainly no where near as prolific as Boys Love has been.

Basically commercial BL's got 20 years, 20 publications, 15 comic imprints, a booming PC game and drama cd industry on commercial yuri...

So it's really kind of a no-brainer why there's so much more of it...

You can't translate what isn't available...

[Tsukaru]

Lol I was googling and came across this topic for some odd reason, I had to comment xP

There are tons of yuri out there, just more in the hentai area. Now if we are talking Shoujo Ai, that's more of the plotline and that "awwww" factor. That is actually common in a lot of anime, just to a certain degree. Utena is known for shoujo, because when it came out it wasn't as common as it is now (I think, I don't remember when it came out) But, there are other Shoujo Ai shows that have more shoujo quality than Utena (Anyone ever seen Kannaduki no Miko? Maybe even Mai- HIme?) When it comes to yuri, the audience is towards men, or at least thats my belief. When it comes to Shoujo Ai however, I think it could be directed more towards women (seeing as how there is a lot more of that "awwww" theme to it) Maria-sama ga Miteru I believe is more directed towards a woman auidence, seeing how the whole cast was not in short skirts xP

Now when it comes to Yaoi, I sort of have this thinking process that a lot of girls say yaoi is fine and whatnot because it's guy on guy, but they are hesitant with Shoujo/yuri because of some unknown factor. I think this is especially with highschoolers because you can always here: "zOmG yaoi is soooo smexy~!!!!! Oh and uh.. yuri is is sort of good too I guess...." Because then if you hear a girl say:
"zOmG yuri is soooooo smexy" then I believe that highschool mind would be like: "Okay, SHE'S a homo" A lot of hardcore yaoi fans come from highschool (Well, most of my friends are hardcore yaoi friends, and we are all in highschool) But really, in my belief (I am female) I think Shoujo may at times be better than yaoi, because if you notice in shoujo, there seems to be one girl who is love with a girl she can't have, and that creates that emotional anime drama that gets everyone stirred up on. (Examples? Mai Hime, Mai Otome, Utena, Maria-sama ga Miteru, Kannaduki no Miko)
While in yaoi, from what I've seen, it's more mutual romance.

[NeoSam]

Originally Posted by Tsukaru

stirred up on. (Examples? Mai Hime, Mai Otome, Utena, Maria-sama ga Miteru, Kannaduki no Miko)

Mai Hime, Mai Otome and Kannaduki no Miko are not shoujo anime/manga.

Kannaduki no Miko manga is serialized in Shounen Ace and aimed at male otakus.
Mai Hime, Mai Otome are aimed at the same male audience as Kannaduki no Miko (and the manga version of them are serialized in shounen magazines).

[cheesie]

While in yaoi, from what I've seen, it's more mutual romance.

Hardly. When I want mindless smut, then I'd go for manga that isn't all abashed in shoving aside the plot and dive right into the sex.

But when I want tension, angst, and impact of a yaoi pairing that isn't quite the same as what a het pairing would achieve, then I'd do my best to stay away from the manga that you described up there. Sex Pistols has an excellent example, where...

Spoiler:

One of the mains was in love with a man for two years, a man who hated anything male and 'wished that all men other than him would die off'. Readers get to relate to the poor guy who makes sure to keep his feelings in check, so it doesn't destroy whatever fragile 'friendship' (it's a long story) he has with that guy. It's a wonderful story about them and the obstacles the two had to go through - one hiding his feelings, and one, due to certain circumstances, fighting his growing feelings with all his might and ultimately, made his friend's heart break.

[DaFool]

What I'm interested in is rough estimated statistics of the following:

Among manga with homosexual themes,

% of shoujo-ai / yuri titles (.i.e. the non-hentai type, usually geared towards shoujo audience but could be seinen too, as long as it has the awwww factor as you put it)

% of shounen-ai / yaoi titles (discounting the equivalent of porn for women if there is such a thing, once again just focusing on awwww factor (yes it could have graphic sex as long as its considered cute / romantic and not for, umm...fapping))

What the Japan-based posters here have me speculating is that its sort of like

20% GL
80% BL

Also, Marimite has a lot of fanboy following, precisely because it was originally a josei title and thus carried superior characterization and plot. Next to Marimite Kannaduki is nothing (well at least it has robots and girl-girl rape), Kashimashi is also nothing though I enjoyed it mildly (also Mai Hime / Otome), and Strawberry Panic is something that should have never been made. On the contrary you take a title like Angel Sanctuary or Ju Oh Sei which border on BL (and I think have the same following) and try to make some coherent action fantasy or sci-fi with it and it just doesn't work, as if you feel the whole thing was smothered in angst.

[tsuraramai]

Originally Posted by DaFool

What I'm interested in is rough estimated statistics of the following:

Among manga with homosexual themes,

% of shoujo-ai / yuri titles (.i.e. the non-hentai type, usually geared towards shoujo audience but could be seinen too, as long as it has the awwww factor as you put it)

% of shounen-ai / yaoi titles (discounting the equivalent of porn for women if there is such a thing, once again just focusing on awwww factor (yes it could have graphic sex as long as its considered cute / romantic and not for, umm...fapping))

It's tough to get actual numbers on yuri, since, like it's been stated before, most titles aren't published with "Yuri" as their primary genre: they're published by shoujo, shounen, seinen, hentai, etc labels... You can argue that just including girlXgirl content doesn't make the title "yuri" any more than including a gay character or relationship makes a title BL.

If that's the case. There is VERY little yuri compared to BL.

Speaking solely of comics, based on publishing quantity, using amazon.co.jp as a source:

# of girls love magazines: 2
Yuri Shimai
Yuri Hime

(also the irregular anthology, "Yuri Tengoku")

# of boy's love magazines: 29 (novel mags included, since they also publish comics)
(list ~ http://www.amazon.co.jp/exec/obidos/...395477-7905967)

# of major solely boys love imprints: 12 (most are extremely prolific)

AQUA Comics
Asuka Ciel DX
Chara Comics
GUSH Comics
Chocolate Comics
Daria Comics
Dear Plus Comics
Drap Comics
Hana Oto Comics
Bamboo Comics
Beboy Comics
Rutile Comics

(there are at least a dozen other labels publishing "Soft" or shoujo crossover BL, ex. ZERO-SUM, Asuka Comics, Wings)

# of major solely girls love imprints: 1

(corrected! I found one!)
Yuri Hime (only 5 comics have been printed on the label so far)

# of shared BL/GL imprints: 1

JUNE Comics (more than 90% of JUNE's comics are BL and it's known for it's BL publications, but it does, recently, print yuri)

From this... it's much less than a 80/20 split... more like 98/2

More resources:

the amazon user "yurimania" has compiled a list of a good chunk of the recent yuri books/mags/dvd collections in print here: http://www.amazon.co.jp/exec/obidos/...395477-7905967, he's insane... and extremely thorough (missing a few books though, especially older ones)... browse his lists if you want to see what Girl-on-Girl stuff is available. (You'll notice, while browsing, that there isn't all that much of this stuff, but that there has been a boom in recent titles... yuri is just now "catching on")

His "yuri" manga lists are here:
#1
http://www.amazon.co.jp/gp/richpub/l...395477-7905967
#2
http://www.amazon.co.jp/gp/richpub/l...395477-7905967
#3
http://www.amazon.co.jp/gp/richpub/l...395477-7905967

His "lesbian" manga lists (some crossover):
http://www.amazon.co.jp/gp/richpub/l...395477-7905967
http://www.amazon.co.jp/gp/richpub/l...395477-7905967

[Yaoihunter3000]

Originally Posted by DaFool

Fact: 60% of North American manga readers are female.

I could safely assume that the manga market is more female-skewed just like the anime market is more male-skewed (and indeed many complain there are too many bishoujo anime nowadays)

Fact: Maria-sama ga miteru is a josei (young women's) novel (as well as other derivative properties)
Ed: the rest of the yuri titles you mentioned are seinen (young men's).

There are many women who like yuri, probably more so than guys who like yaoi. Of course there are lesbians who subscribe to yuri just like there are gays who subscribe to yaoi.

However, get this: the majority of yaoi subscribers are heterosexual females. I read in a research article somewhere that yaoi is a form of feminist rebellion---taking the male mask in a male story in a male world, and twisting it on its end for the benefit of the female reader. However it is only a more elementary form of feminist rebellion...the more advanced forms include nonsexualized depictions.

I'm sure there are plenty gay men who enjoy yaoi. Your statement about lesbians enjoying Yuri is true, however I (a bisexual, with a preference to woman) think that the Yuri novels done by men are a little unrealistic, focussing on female-female relationships from a male view, were as shoujo-ai type yuris are usually drawn by female artists and provide a real woman's view on those relationships. Men often place too much on sex as aspect of the relationship, where as for most real lesbians romance and love is more-often the focus. Yaoi mangas written by men are going to be done in accordance to who gay men think, which is often different to who straight women think therefore not as enjoyed by female readers.

[coren]

Originally Posted by Yaoihunter3000

I'm sure there are plenty gay men who enjoy yaoi. Your statement about lesbians enjoying Yuri is true, however I (a bisexual, with a preference to woman) think that the Yuri novels done by men are a little unrealistic, focussing on female-female relationships from a male view, were as shoujo-ai type yuris are usually drawn by female artists and provide a real woman's view on those relationships. Men often place too much on sex as aspect of the relationship, where as for most real lesbians romance and love is more-often the focus. Yaoi mangas written by men are going to be done in accordance to who gay men think, which is often different to who straight women think therefore not as enjoyed by female readers.

My impression is that yuri tends to appeal to a more diverse audience than yaoi. Sure, there are some men who like yaoi, but by and large it's written by women for women. On the other hand, you can occasionally find yuri stories in more general shoujo, josei, and seinen magazines, as well as the seinen otaku magazines and specialist yuri magazines. Personally, I don't find much of it realistic though, except for the rare autobiographical stories (though you can say this about almost all manga).

[Last Sinner]

As coren said, written by women for women, so it targets its niche and knows what it needs to do to sell. From my experiences when I go to the local manga store to get my stuff, I see a lot of women getting blue label titles and being very open about it. I have no problem with them getting it, each to their own. As long as they don't have a problem with men liking yuri. ^^

[Idiot Bookman /SIG]

The Yaoi releases are good for yaoi..fans.. and plus it would get popular since the female population is active with yaoi based but not all the time. Depends what age or interests. o:

[roriconfan]

Yaoi stories, just like their name suggests, are usually one shots. Easy to produce and offer ephemeral enjoyment. So it's easy work with guaranteed results most of time, so no wonder there are so many of those around.

[Zu Ra]

Simple case of Demand and Supply .

In other news there is talk of Banning Yaoi & BL Manga in Osaka after Toyko

[ObviouslyFake]

I've been looking at Hongfire's gallery lately, and I must say: Yaoi is nothing more than girls with dongs. And a bag. You would know what I meant by that if you had actually been there once. You may as well look at the Yuri section and imagine all of the girls with dongs and a bag.