[Manga] Naruto Chapter 578 Discussion

[itachi-san314]

Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n

Itachi knows that if he uses Tsukiyomi the genjutsu cast on him will eventually break, which means Kabuto will be able to take control of him.

why would shisui's genjutsu break if itachi uses tsukiomi?

Originally Posted by Detective-san

No, he gave one eye to Itachi before he died--Itachi mentioned that Danzo already had his other eye at the time.

In other words, he died at an unknown time, place, and manner--but we know he had neither of his eyes long before that.

Who knows though, maybe Kabuto can conjure something up like what he did with Madara and Mokuton.

my guess is that kishi could do whatever he wants in this case since ET overrides logic in many cases. it's just the soul of the individual after all (plus some dna, but not their actual body) so I could see shisui being revived with his eyes even though he gave them up before death. although it would be pretty funny for him to revive shisui for that purpose and then have him be resurrected with no eyes since he didn't know the details leading up to his death.

also, we haven't even begun to hear or see what madara could do with genjutsu. he could very well have a similar power to shisui for all we know, so reviving shisui may not be necessary. all kabuto would have to do is summon madara over

given all this ET craziness, I hope ninja figure out a new way to dispose of their bodies after this war...

[Hiking_Bear]

Originally Posted by MysticNinjaJay

I wonder also if poor Anko who is currently laid out on the ground will be involved in this fight in some way.

I think all the elements are there for Orochimaru's return. Kishi's reason for bringing back Orochimaru could just be fan service. If Orochimaru were freed from Itachi's Sword of Totsuka, he would still need a host body to inhabit. That may be the purpose of Anko.

But back in Chapter 520, Kabuto said he needed Anko alive. I think he intended to use her for two reasons - one was to absorb the rest of Orochimaru's chakra from her body and strengthen his control over Edo Tensei. The other reason was that he intended to use her as the living sacrifice for an Edo Tensei. It's not clear which person Kabuto intended to Edo Tensei. It can't be Orochimaru, since he is sealed. And he also admitted that he didn't have the DNA of Jiraiya or Shisui.

Hmmm.. What about if Kabuto Edo Tensei's himself? He believes so strongly that the technique has no weakness. Maybe he wants to have an indestructible body himself.

[TimeMask]

Originally Posted by Hiking_Bear

I think all the elements are there for Orochimaru's return. Kishi's reason for bringing back Orochimaru could just be fan service. If Orochimaru were freed from Itachi's Sword of Totsuka, he would still need a host body to inhabit. That may be the purpose of Anko.

But back in Chapter 520, Kabuto said he needed Anko alive. I think he intended to use her for two reasons - one was to absorb the rest of Orochimaru's chakra from her body and strengthen his control over Edo Tensei. The other reason was that he intended to use her as the living sacrifice for an Edo Tensei. It's not clear which person Kabuto intended to Edo Tensei. It can't be Orochimaru, since he is sealed. And he also admitted that he didn't have the DNA of Jiraiya or Shisui.

Hmmm.. What about if Kabuto Edo Tensei's himself? He believes so strongly that the technique has no weakness. Maybe he wants to have an indestructible body himself.

Kabuto like Oro has a real snake like body under his skin. This is why its unlikely Kabuto has a edo body since Oro also had a snake body but he wasn't a edo.

Apparently Anko is Kishi's fav female since she's like Oro so it would be ironic if Oro did go in her body.

If Oro is brought back then Kabuto would likely be killed since I can't see Kishi making him Oro's servant again now that Kabuto has become so strong.

[23 gundam fan]

good chapter set up for the kabuto vs uchiha fight. i guess we can say madara without a doubt is the most kick-ass villian, we have seen to date. we go from tsunades big moment(which wasnt much of one) to all the kagas pissing there pants at this point. it all comes down to the uchiha boys taking down kabuto, that will decide the kagas fate.

[gaboratamer]

Please Kabuto, kick Sasuke's ass and let Itachi shine.

[Ulquiorra]

I find it telling that in the cover page about "the climax of the war!!!!" only three characters from Naruto's generation are present. So much for the greatest generation.

[Hiking_Bear]

Originally Posted by TimeMask

Kabuto like Oro has a real snake like body under his skin. This is why its unlikely Kabuto has a edo body since Oro also had a snake body but he wasn't a edo.

No, I wasn't saying at all that Kabuto was an Edo Tensei summon. I was thinking that if it were possible to Edo Tensei oneself, then I could see that as something Kabuto might want to do with Anko. It would give him an invincible body that isn't controlled by anyone but himself.

Who else could Kabuto could use Anko as a sacrifice for? No one really comes to mind ?

[Artimus_Prime]

Originally Posted by Hiking_Bear

No, I wasn't saying at all that Kabuto was an Edo Tensei summon. I was thinking that if it were possible to Edo Tensei oneself, then I could see that as something Kabuto might want to do with Anko. It would give him an invincible body that isn't controlled by anyone but himself.

Who else could Kabuto could use Anko as a sacrifice for? No one really comes to mind ?

wouldnt kabuto need an accomplice for this though? if edo tensei summons you from the pure world, then im not sure how he would perform a jutsu on himself that requires him to be dead.

[DJ*]

Originally Posted by 23 gundam fan

good chapter set up for the kabuto vs uchiha fight. i guess we can say madara without a doubt is the most kick-ass villian, we have seen to date. we go from tsunades big moment(which wasnt much of one) to all the kagas pissing there pants at this point. it all comes down to the uchiha boys taking down kabuto, that will decide the kagas fate.

Madara is Kishi's 'Vegitto'. His most powerful rival characters combined into one ludicrously powerful being that will go down arguably 'undefeated'.

[Shiryuu]

Originally Posted by Detective-san

No, he gave one eye to Itachi before he died--Itachi mentioned that Danzo already had his other eye at the time.

In other words, he died at an unknown time, place, and manner--but we know he had neither of his eyes long before that.

Who knows though, maybe Kabuto can conjure something up like what he did with Madara and Mokuton.

That's like saying Sasori should've been revived as a slab of meat instead of with his full body.

[Shining Celebi]

Why do people keep talking about Shisui being revived? Kabuto already said Shisui is one of the people he cannot revive.

Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n

Because he himself is under the influence of genjutsu, and he doesn't want that genjutsu to end because if it ends then Kabuto takes control of him again and then Kabuto can use him to capture Sasuke. Of course this is a matter of interpretation of what was said about the genjutsu of Shisui, one interpretation can be that it is layered on top of one's mind and another can be that it changes someone's thinking instantly. In the first case it's constantly affecting the brain, as if you had glasses or contact lenses that change your vision and thus change your perception of the world, but these glasses or contact lenses can be broken and then you are back to your original state. In the second case your vision has been changed by eye surgery, in this case you yourself have been changed and there's no risk of glasses breaking, that is there is no risk of the genjutsu breaking.

In the second case everything is simple, Itachi just uses Tsukiyomi on Kabuto and frees the Edo Tensei people from, then returns them to where they came from, then talks to Sasuke and then he himself returns to the "pure world". Happy end.

The first case is much more interesting, there could be different scenarios, but consider this one for example:
Itachi knows that if he uses Tsukiyomi the genjutsu cast on him will eventually break, which means Kabuto will be able to take control of him. In this case he has the time to dispose of the Edo Tensei people, including Madara, but after he saved the kages and the alliance, he might fall under Kabuto's influence again. And Kabuto's goal was always to capture Sasuke, which means Itachi will have to fight Sasuke again. And this time it will be the real thing, if Itachi wins then Sasuke is dead and Kabuto gets his body. Maybe what Itachi is doing right now, that is accepting Sasuke's help, is Naruto's influence on Itachi, he now chooses a 3rd way to do things, even if he doesn't know how things will end up this way, but he refuses to choose between the alliance and Sasuke.

edit: quoted the wrong post

We've seen genjutsu used on top of/inside of genjutsu before...it doesn't make sense that all of a sudden Itachi using Tsukuyomi would break Shisui's genjutsu.

It seemed understood to me, too, that Shisui's genjutsu was permanent and irrevocable. Otherwise Bee and Naruto for example would be totally immune to it, and anyone else could be freed of it with the help of a team member. Not very impressive for a use-only-once-every-ten-years ultimate genjutsu.

I think Kabuto is strong enough to be unconcerned, he has some kind of genjutsu defense. This also would explain why he freely told Tobi how to stop Edo Tensei.

[Shiryuu]

Kabuto managed to get a hold of Nagato's remains even after Tobi put him in his private dimension. Any of Shisui's remaining dna from Danzo shouldn't be too hard to get.

[Hunter]

Originally Posted by Hiking_Bear

Kishi's reason for bringing back Orochimaru could just be fan service.

Orochimaru was a very unpopular character in Japan, in fact it wouldn't surprise me if that were the reason he was taken out from the story and replaced by Kabuto whereas his name keeps popping up.

Originally Posted by Shiryuu

Kabuto managed to get a hold of Nagato's remains even after Tobi put him in his private dimension. Any of Shisui's remaining dna from Danzo shouldn't be too hard to get.

Kabuto got hold of that before Tobi went after his corpse to take back the Rinnegan. It must not have been very difficult considering Nagato was coughing two gallons of blood everywhere he went.

[Lendial]

why was oro unpopular in japan? most forum goer's here seem to adore him.

[Valky]

Because he's gross? With things coming out from his mouth, it kills your appetite ..

[Hiking_Bear]

Originally Posted by Lendial

why was oro unpopular in japan? most forum goer's here seem to adore him.

He's not really unpopular. If you look at the character popularity polls, it's dominated by all the good characters. You'll only find Itachi and Deidara near the top (and maybe Sasori). Kabuto doesn't do much better than Orochimaru, and I suspect that's because Orochimaru's plotline reached a climax early in the series when he fought against the 3rd hokage.

[Hunter]

The current villain(s) of the story are actually often in the top 10 in SJ characters polls particulary if they were there from the start and have had time to gather a fanbase. Orochimaru has always been very low in japanese fan polls, his best place was 15th around chapter 60 after which he dropped and stayed at the bottom of the top 30 even when he had the spotlight.
I don't think he even made it in the last poll.

I'm not saying it means much, afterall Kishimoto gave Chouji his crowning moment of awesome (or tried to at least) during the war whereas nobody cared about him, but I always found weird the way he was cast aside for Kabuto to become Oro 2.0 out of nowhere with virtually nothing of his own. Even now, nearly all the time Kabuto does or knows something we're told that it was Oro who did it, as if Kabuto had just been quickly grafted there as an afterthought.

[Ero-Senn1n]

Originally Posted by Shining Celebi

Why do people keep talking about Shisui being revived? Kabuto already said Shisui is one of the people he cannot revive.

Maybe he was lying. The interesting thing is Kabuto's current confidence. He should know best that both Uchiha have beaten Orochimaru. So the only logical answer can be that Kabuto has a plan against the sharingan, he learned the lesson and prepared himself to counter the power of the MS eyes. Even if summoning Shisu is very unlikely in my opinion, but it has a small chance that the author can't think of anything else or that he wants to show us the story of Itachi and Shisui this way.

Originally Posted by Shining Celebi

We've seen genjutsu used on top of/inside of genjutsu before...it doesn't make sense that all of a sudden Itachi using Tsukuyomi would break Shisui's genjutsu.

It seemed understood to me, too, that Shisui's genjutsu was permanent and irrevocable. Otherwise Bee and Naruto for example would be totally immune to it, and anyone else could be freed of it with the help of a team member. Not very impressive for a use-only-once-every-ten-years ultimate genjutsu.

I think Kabuto is strong enough to be unconcerned, he has some kind of genjutsu defense. This also would explain why he freely told Tobi how to stop Edo Tensei.

The genjutsu inside a genjutsu is like layers on each other, but those are cast by the same genjutsu user. In case of regular genjutsu there is a chakra flowing from the user to the victim, that can be cut by another ninja. The idea is that in this case there's a genjutsu layer inside one's brain made by someone else. So Shisui's genjutsu in this aspect is like Tsukiyomi: it's instantaneous, it cannot be disspelled by another ninja. One should reach into another's brain with a strong genjutsu to break the layer of genjutsu created by Shisui. So the idea is that when Itachi creates his tsukiyomi (or other strong genjutsu) it goes from his brain to the victim's brain, which means it has to pass through the layer of Shisui's genjutsu, and in the process it breaks down Shisui's genjutsu. But all this reasoning would be only a plot device to make the plot more interesting, instead of the trivial solution where Itachi wins in the blink of an eye he actually has a longer and much more interesting fight.

[Valky]

Maybe Kabuto will summon Itachi and Sasuke's parents so they could have a cheesy family reunions.

[MysticNinjaJay]

I think it's obvious that Kabuto has something up his sleeve.

He's not going to beat Sasuke and Itachi with a bunch of crazy snake jutsu.

He's got to use Edo Tensei and the best way to counter Sharingan is with Sharingan.

Kabuto did say he doesn't have the DNA of Jiraiya and Shisui.

Jiraiya drowned but Danzo had Shisui's eye and arm so Kabuto could have acquired it from Danzo's corpse. He is a sneaky ninja so perhaps he learned about Danzo's body being in the Akatsuki hideout while preparing for the war.

There are ofcourse other ninja that could be summoned. Tobi seems to have all the eyes of the Uchiha that were slain by Itachi so for all we know Kabuto could summon several Uchiha members of the Konoha police force.

There are so many possibilities with Edo Tensei.