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Old 2016-10-11, 15:34   Link #81
LevelSeven
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^i think that too, unless aleister acts or kamisato gets WR back for oneshotting i doubt that he will have their normal lvl, even if they come back they will mostlikely be at HPs lvl at most :/
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Old 2016-10-11, 17:52   Link #82
DragonXX
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^i think that too, unless aleister acts or kamisato gets WR back for oneshotting i doubt that he will have their normal lvl, even if they come back they will mostlikely be at HPs lvl at most :/
That was the level they are at after Crowley Nerf them in NT12 and Touma still couldn't beat HP and that if AAA Nouken didn't do it. Touma would of let IT out to do it for him. Unless your saying which the Magic Gods return Crowley is going to do it himself or turn Mikoto into his pawn because she was the last one using Crowley's AAA even if she couldn't use the Black Box which most likey connect to Crowley's Will.
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Old 2016-10-12, 04:53   Link #83
LevelSeven
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That was the level they are at after Crowley Nerf them in NT12 and Touma still couldn't beat HP and that if AAA Nouken didn't do it.
true, but this is why i said "touma and co",
this story is full of people suddenly popping up and helping for one story arc, so, being in AC gives the chance for shiage+team or accel to appear :/ (would be nice to have a match of white winged accel and a depowered majin )
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Touma would of let IT out to do it for him.
against HP this could be helpful, but didnt some majins go to the "other side via WR" without getting weakened first?
and given that othinus destroyed IT in a far weaker state i would say that if they actually do come back without nerfings than only WR or aleister/aiwass should be able to stop them
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Unless your saying which the Magic Gods return Crowley is going to do it himself or turn Mikoto into his pawn because she was the last one using Crowley's AAA even if she couldn't use the Black Box which most likey connect to Crowley's Will.
didnt think about the AAA option, wouldnt be impossible for aleister to take control of mikoto while powering her up and killing the strongest majins like that
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Old 2016-10-12, 10:59   Link #84
dniv
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Actually I'm fully expecting the level 5 shift to be relevant in this volume or the next. Either Yuuitsu will use it this volume, or there will be some sort of cliff after she is defeated by Kamijou, and then Aleister (or her) decides to use Yuuitsu's previous plan and makes Rikou a level 5 henceforth nerfing all of the espers as he wants so that he can get Accelerator out of the way so that he can unleash Aiwass by making Last Order not protected again, thus activating the virus inside of her bringing him out. This is why I think he isn't worrying about being able to pull off Aiwass. It's because he can nerf Accel whenever he wants.

That'd be pretty epic imo. I would like to see him take more action since he has come out of his tube. And that'd be a good explanation for why he might want to do so... just to get Accel out of the way...
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Old 2016-10-12, 12:21   Link #85
LevelSeven
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Actually I'm fully expecting the level 5 shift to be relevant in this volume or the next. Either Yuuitsu will use it this volume, or there will be some sort of cliff after she is defeated by Kamijou, and then Aleister (or her) decides to use Yuuitsu's previous plan and makes Rikou a level 5 henceforth nerfing all of the espers as he wants so that he can get Accelerator out of the way so that he can unleash Aiwass by making Last Order not protected again, thus activating the virus inside of her bringing him out. This is why I think he isn't worrying about being able to pull off Aiwass. It's because he can nerf Accel whenever he wants.

That'd be pretty epic imo. I would like to see him take more action since he has come out of his tube. And that'd be a good explanation for why he might want to do so... just to get Accel out of the way...
that seems....way to complicated...

if his only goal is to get accel out of the way he can use a EMP and f*ck up the choker, than a team can immediately capture LO :/

if he has a use for the lvl5-shift than the first of two options i can imagine is to actually improve accels lvl (or make it more stabilized somehow),
as we saw already, aleister is capable of messing around of majins rather easily on his own, he doesnt need a esper army, all he needs is AIM from espers be it lvl0 or higher,
and with that i come to my second option: lvl5 shift allows takitsubo to turn normals into espers, that would 1. crush magicians 2. increase the AIM field for whatever plan he has...

but all that seems rather unlikely, aleister could use his archetype controller for manipulation of mankind, making the esper pogram into the most wanted thing on earth, than he gives it to every country for free and in a matter of weeks every human is a esper (unless takitsubo can turn hundred thousands of humans into espers at once and works 24 hours each day i doubt that she would be any faster :/)
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Old 2016-10-15, 04:57   Link #86
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Just ambush Accel when his powers are off. He's nerfed enough that anyone with sense should be able to take him. But all the time people just try and get him by making it very obvious giving him time to turn his powers on. All and all they turned one of the most OP espers into someone that can be handled pretty easy but is still a massive threat.

Probably the best thing Kamachi done with Accel by shooting him in the head.

But I don't understand this sudden talk about Accelerator. His role in things seems to be very much over, he might have been key to the plan before but let's be frank Aleister's plans have dramatically changed according to little tip bits we get about it after 30+ novels.

And I really don't believe Aleister can take control over Misaka Mikoto. He probably manipulates her to turn her against the possible return of the Magic Gods. I mean she has the equipment to deal with them now and he could stock those feelings she had in NT13 when facing HP.

But thats if they return and I hope they don't. I still strongly believe Touma still needs to fail here for his own good. While the cover suggests he maybe working with others, it really depends how he goes about it to achieve his current aim.

If he tries to take on the burden alone, he should and needs to fail even at his best. He needs to bloody learn that lesson once and for all.
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Old 2016-10-15, 08:15   Link #87
LevelSeven
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Probably the best thing Kamachi done with Accel by shooting him in the head.
imo it was one of the worst things,
way to many ways to overcome accels abilitys have been introduced so far, magic, pull-back and in accels manga even some machines with lvl5-psychokinesis and teleportation affect him and accels own stupidity in not using his powers "correctly" :/
all in all, not a single one of his fights after he lost his powers would be really changed had he not been shot in the head, except for some explanations in some small places but that could have been done easily too, but that he was nerfed isnt the bad thing, it is that nobody is using his obvious weakness at all, in a such technologically-advanced place i would assume getting a EMP is a rather easy feat
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But I don't understand this sudden talk about Accelerator. His role in things seems to be very much over, he might have been key to the plan before but let's be frank Aleister's plans have dramatically changed according to little tip bits we get about it after 30+ novels.
not aleisters plan has changed but the things he wanted to happen(as in "the amount of things that go according to his initial plan are decreasing), his goal should still be the same which means that accel still should have a integral part in his plans :/
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And I really don't believe Aleister can take control over Misaka Mikoto. He probably manipulates her to turn her against the possible return of the Magic Gods. I mean she has the equipment to deal with them now and he could stock those feelings she had in NT13 when facing HP.
i doubt that AAA+misaka alone is along to face a majin, mostlikely aleister will lend his power and take over her mind temporarily, that will be the reason for worry for touma and cause him to force misaka into letting AAA go, resulting in the long awaited fight between them (and if that isnt happening in this volume i wont expect to happen ever)
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Old 2016-10-15, 10:04   Link #88
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Or Aleister can simply do it himself as usual. The reason he left the job to Noukan was because he needed them when they set foot on AC and that's because they needed themselves yet AAA still needed of Aleister's power. Mikoto on AAA is just more dakka without Aleister's power.
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Old 2016-10-15, 11:00   Link #89
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I'm pretty sure Alesiter can provide the power remotely at any time. More importantly she describes the missing part as a black box, this is probably just a saying to describe the box on planes for example.

But I have a feeling that black box could be releated to that substance created after the level six shift on mikoto. Just hoping to connect loose strings.
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Old 2016-10-15, 11:57   Link #90
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imo it was one of the worst things,
way to many ways to overcome accels abilitys have been introduced so far, magic, pull-back and in accels manga even some machines with lvl5-psychokinesis and teleportation affect him and accels own stupidity in not using his powers "correctly" :/
all in all, not a single one of his fights after he lost his powers would be really changed had he not been shot in the head, except for some explanations in some small places but that could have been done easily too, but that he was nerfed isnt the bad thing, it is that nobody is using his obvious weakness at all, in a such technologically-advanced place i would assume getting a EMP is a rather easy feat
I'm surprised this would come from someone who focus more on accel's parts more than anything else. Accel getting attacked through the collar happened several times. Komaba in SS1, Shiokishi's forces in OT 19, Kakine stalling so he will run out of time in NT 6. He even modded the crutch to defend against normal EMPs early on, this is nothing new.

As for Aleister's plan, he has had setbacks but I wouldn't say dramatic changes. Tsuchimikado was on the right track in OT 6 with the artificial heaven hypothesis. We saw what the phase is capable of in OT 13, then Noukan confirmed it without a doubt. As for Accel's involvement, we are not any closer to finding out what he wants with Accel any more than what happened back in OT 13's epilogue and OT 16's BTL. My guess is, judging from Accel's observations of his own power back in OT 22, Aleister wants him to take in and understand foreign laws to help build his anti magic realm somehow. If this was really the case Accel should still be able to do it. Maybe after absorbing foreign laws to a certain point, Accel will become Aleister's version of IB, being the keystone to his magic-free phase.
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Old 2016-10-15, 12:49   Link #91
LevelSeven
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I'm surprised this would come from someone who focus more on accel's parts more than anything else. Accel getting attacked through the collar happened several times. Komaba in SS1, Shiokishi's forces in OT 19, Kakine stalling so he will run out of time in NT 6. He even modded the crutch to defend against normal EMPs early on, this is nothing new.
he didnt use the crutch to defend against EMPs but against a signal that specifically messed with the networks one, so if someone would send it, he could send a counter signal via the mdiefied crutch and connect with the network without problems again,
what imean is a plain old EMP that destroys every electronic device in its AoE, everyone uses needlessly complicated plans that makes them seem rather stupid, it is sad honestly since everyones plans (except for komabas) would have worked even without accel needing the choker(and it wouldnt seem overcomplicated), even kakines plan would work (he would willingly let himself get hit by DM-clones instead of reflecting it resulting in his body being smashed)....
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As for Aleister's plan, he has had setbacks but I wouldn't say dramatic changes. Tsuchimikado was on the right track in OT 6 with the artificial heaven hypothesis. We saw what the phase is capable of in OT 13, then Noukan confirmed it without a doubt. As for Accel's involvement, we are not any closer to finding out what he wants with Accel any more than what happened back in OT 13's epilogue and OT 16's BTL. My guess is, judging from Accel's observations of his own power back in OT 22, Aleister wants him to take in and understand foreign laws to help build his anti magic realm somehow. If this was really the case Accel should still be able to do it. Maybe after absorbing foreign laws to a certain point, Accel will become Aleister's version of IB, being the keystone to his magic-free phase.
i dont think that a magic-free world is the only goal, otherwise the spreading of the esper pogram would have resulted in such a thing in a generation or two...

but i agree, there arent such dramatic setbacks for him, i guess it feels like accel idnt involved that much anymore due to the lack of mention of it
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Old 2016-10-15, 13:45   Link #92
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1. No point if Aleister doesn't wants to.
2. Black box is the sealed contents, only someone with a level of understanding of foreign laws as Aleister can do, without it it's just useless and potentially harmful as a grimoire.
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Old 2016-10-15, 14:04   Link #93
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he didnt use the crutch to defend against EMPs but against a signal that specifically messed with the networks one, so if someone would send it, he could send a counter signal via the mdiefied crutch and connect with the network without problems again,
what imean is a plain old EMP that destroys every electronic device in its AoE, everyone uses needlessly complicated plans that makes them seem rather stupid, it is sad honestly since everyones plans (except for komabas) would have worked even without accel needing the choker(and it wouldnt seem overcomplicated), even kakines plan would work (he would willingly let himself get hit by DM-clones instead of reflecting it resulting in his body being smashed)....
I was wrong about the crutch thing. It's true it wasn't used to defend against EMPs. But even if EMP does work against the choker, it's not like other methods haven't worked before. I seriously doubt it would have no EMP protection after all the modifications.

How are the plans over complicated anyway? So far they involved either jamming the signal which can be easily done by small gadgets or a button, punching him in the face which is simple if you are Amata, guilt tripping him like Worst which just involves showing her face. Kakine can wait it out or use the guilt trip thing with the DM sister clones, he has so many options. Those who doesn't use an EMP either have methods just as effective and cost efficient or it would be OOC for them to rely on small tricks. Whether they would work against Accel pre headshot is irrelevant.
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Old 2016-10-15, 14:28   Link #94
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I was wrong about the crutch thing. It's true it wasn't used to defend against EMPs. But even if EMP does work against the choker, it's not like other methods haven't worked before. I seriously doubt it would have no EMP protection after all the modifications.
i doubt that, im not a expert but logically accels choker should be incredible easy to destroy via a EMP,
it is destroying any electronics in its AoE, and accels choker would be immediatly destroyed the moment he gets with it, protection would be the problem, afterall the signals of the network still need to reach the device,but EMP and the signal are electromagnetic, that means in order to protect the devise against the EMP he would also need to stop the network from reaching him...
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How are the plans over complicated anyway? So far they involved either jamming the signal which can be easily done by small gadgets or a button, punching him in the face which is simple if you are Amata, guilt tripping him like Worst which just involves showing her face. Kakine can wait it out or use the guilt trip thing with the DM sister clones, he has so many options. Those who doesn't use an EMP either have methods just as effective and cost efficient or it would be OOC for them to rely on small tricks.
kihara wanted to kill accel, using a EMP and punching him to death while laughing maniacally doesnt seem OOC, worst wanted to kill him too AND make him suffer, so using a EMP and killing LO in front of him and than killing him painfully also doesnt seem OOC,
and kakine uses any method possible (except for the easy ones), he wanted to kidnap LO so him using a EMP and than killing accel slowly would be perfectly in character...
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Whether they would work against Accel pre headshot is irrelevant.
not for the sake of what i said,
my point is that the headshot was a way to make accels fight more interesting, but his enemys hardly rely on the obvious weakness he got,
it limits him a bit but all in all the choker is hardly a tool that is "the big handicap" that it was supposed to be,
pre-headshot accel would still have the same problems and reach the same place in-story while also making his enemys look intelligent since they devised ways to actually be a challenge,
unfortunatly their current view is that they always ignore his biggest weakness that could have otherwise secured their victory easy

@loremaster

i wouldt read to much into it,
imo it seems like mikoto simply used "black box" as a term to describe the "unknown part" of the system, i dont think that it was any other hidden meaning :/
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Old 2016-10-15, 22:47   Link #95
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Just ambush Accel when his powers are off. He's nerfed enough that anyone with sense should be able to take him. But all the time people just try and get him by making it very obvious giving him time to turn his powers on. All and all they turned one of the most OP espers into someone that can be handled pretty easy but is still a massive threat.

Probably the best thing Kamachi done with Accel by shooting him in the head.

But I don't understand this sudden talk about Accelerator. His role in things seems to be very much over, he might have been key to the plan before but let's be frank Aleister's plans have dramatically changed according to little tip bits we get about it after 30+ novels.

And I really don't believe Aleister can take control over Misaka Mikoto. He probably manipulates her to turn her against the possible return of the Magic Gods. I mean she has the equipment to deal with them now and he could stock those feelings she had in NT13 when facing HP.

But thats if they return and I hope they don't. I still strongly believe Touma still needs to fail here for his own good. While the cover suggests he maybe working with others, it really depends how he goes about it to achieve his current aim.

If he tries to take on the burden alone, he should and needs to fail even at his best. He needs to bloody learn that lesson once and for all.
I don't think Touma will fail to save Kamisato but I don't think he will in NT17 because I think that would be better for the Climax of the Current Story Arc which I think would still be NT18-NT20 or NT19-NT21 or before the Climax of the Next Story Arc but Kamisato will be save if there a chance of it because have you forgot what Kihara Kagun said in NT4 that as long as Touma is trying to save you will be save. Beside I believe him learning the lesson you want Touma to learn would be better if it someone Touma Care about not Kamisato who Touma does not seen to like at very must if at all.
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Old 2016-10-16, 14:43   Link #96
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i doubt that, im not a expert but logically accels choker should be incredible easy to destroy via a EMP,
it is destroying any electronics in its AoE, and accels choker would be immediatly destroyed the moment he gets with it, protection would be the problem, afterall the signals of the network still need to reach the device,but EMP and the signal are electromagnetic, that means in order to protect the devise against the EMP he would also need to stop the network from reaching him...

kihara wanted to kill accel, using a EMP and punching him to death while laughing maniacally doesnt seem OOC, worst wanted to kill him too AND make him suffer, so using a EMP and killing LO in front of him and than killing him painfully also doesnt seem OOC,
and kakine uses any method possible (except for the easy ones), he wanted to kidnap LO so him using a EMP and than killing accel slowly would be perfectly in character...

not for the sake of what i said,
my point is that the headshot was a way to make accels fight more interesting, but his enemys hardly rely on the obvious weakness he got,
it limits him a bit but all in all the choker is hardly a tool that is "the big handicap" that it was supposed to be,
pre-headshot accel would still have the same problems and reach the same place in-story while also making his enemys look intelligent since they devised ways to actually be a challenge,
unfortunatly their current view is that they always ignore his biggest weakness that could have otherwise secured their victory easy
Many modern military tech have EMP counter measures implemented, just look up Faraday cage for a simpler version. It doesn't make the device useless or the whole protection idea would be stupid to begin with. It is unreasonable to think a piece of tech so advanced will not find some way to implement EMP protection, something that's widely done in the real world. It might work the first time, but if Accel doesn't patch it up right away like he did with the signal jamming then he's an idiot.

I'll say this again, Accel's opponents do not benefit from using EMP. Did Amata need it to punch Accel and screw with him? Did Worse need it to make Accel stop fighting? Seems like it would be unnecessary and just makes the villains seem bland and the choker incredibly flawed. Kakine's goal was to pick a fight with Accel and beat him in a showdown to prove his worth to Aleister, kidnapping LO was just a way to give Accel a reason to fight, using something to make Accel powerless in a fight would be against his agenda, so yes it would be OOC. Amata didn't lose because he ignored the choker, he' didn't need it to win. He lost because Aleister played favourites. Kakine lost because he never had a chance to begin with. In the end even if EMP COULD work, it would just bring out the wings even quicker and screw over the enemy anyway, the ones that can deal with the wings wouldn't even need EMP to begin with.

To sum things up, normal EMPs are outdated against the choker. Accel may have gained an additional weakness with the collar, it doesn't mean his enemies cannot just target his original weaknesses like his ego, flaws with reflection or magic. The weakness with reflection and magic was always there, they are just as obvious to those in the know, so why can't people like Amata and Trident magicians take advantage of it with the power already got? Also, you cannot simply insert pre headshot Accel into the current Accel's shoes and make a convincing argument out of it. They would undergo completely different paths thanks to butterfly effect, some of the villains will not be using the same methods against him. For example, Komaba will not be scattering chaff anymore.

Last edited by entei08; 2016-10-16 at 14:54.
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Old 2016-10-16, 17:02   Link #97
Natsurin
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I'm not sure why anyone would ever think Accelerator would have been the same without the brain damage. That's literally missing the entire point behind his characterisation. His brain damage is a testament to the fact that he managed to protect a life for the first time as opposed to simply taking it away and it can't just be brushed away as a means of making him fight differently. Kamachi was never that simplistic and Accelerator is not so heavily defined by fighting that the most important event of his life is just simply "making the fighting difficulty go up".

Saying things like "pre-headshot accel would still have the same problems and reach the same place in-story" is like denying all of who Accelerator currently is and for someone like you who claims to love him, Level_Seven, I find myself deeply surprised at such a statement solely because had Accelerator not dealt with the brain injury that forced him to reach a place different than the boy who can just reflect anything without care due to subconscious calculations, he would not be in the place he's currently in. His story would have taken him elsewhere, possibly further than ever away from the "hero" he longed to be.
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Old 2016-10-16, 17:17   Link #98
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So today we find out LevelSeven isn't that big of an Accelerator fan. Since you would know the getting shot in the head is a symbolic moment in his character development. It was the moment when he first saved someone and used his powers for good.

If that never happened how long would it be for Accelerator to fall back down? He was defeated by Touma sure, but a lot of the time defeat leads to bitterness and Accel's reaction to our spikey haired hero was pointing in that direction. I have no doubt that if that moment in OT didn't happen than Accelerator would've never achieved what he sought.

And that is a family, to be with people without them being afraid or to target him with malice or hatred.

Without Last Order he would have never escaped that cycle of bitterness and hatred which the darkness of Academy City traps people in.
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Old 2016-10-16, 21:08   Link #99
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So today we find out LevelSeven isn't that big of an Accelerator fan. Since you would know the getting shot in the head is a symbolic moment in his character development. It was the moment when he first saved someone and used his powers for good.

If that never happened how long would it be for Accelerator to fall back down? He was defeated by Touma sure, but a lot of the time defeat leads to bitterness and Accel's reaction to our spikey haired hero was pointing in that direction. I have no doubt that if that moment in OT didn't happen than Accelerator would've never achieved what he sought.

And that is a family, to be with people without them being afraid or to target him with malice or hatred.

Without Last Order he would have never escaped that cycle of bitterness and hatred which the darkness of Academy City traps people in.
Shouldn't all these post about Accelerator be move to the Accelerator Thread?

Which NT17 coming out soon what would you want to see for the coming Climax of the Current Story Arc?

Which I believe will start on NT18 or NT19 and End on NT20 or NT21.

I myself want an event that will drive Touma out of AC for a Story Arc until at least the end of said Story Arc or after said Story Arc is done.

I think it would be good for Touma Character Growth to lose his HomeBase of AC for a Story Arc and also increase our understanding of the World or even bring back some of the Magic Characters and give them a bigger role because Touma can't use AC for a homebase anymore so he has to use somewhere else like maybe England or his Parents House which could give us more stuff about Touma unknown past.
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Old 2016-10-17, 01:58   Link #100
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Is there a need to? We're talking about Accelerator as he is in the novels in which he's an integral part of. I doubt there's any necessity to move to the Accelerator thread just for the hell of it. That's like saying all Mikoto discussion should be moved to the Railgun subforum.
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