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Old 2017-09-12, 07:43   Link #21
LazyHunter
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Spoiler for Answer to Loremaster:

Spoiler for Answer to Natsurin:
As a last comment I'll say that I fully agree with OH&S. However, one should also take into account that people that do like things in the series that you don't are not necessarily "being dishonest" or "not accepting the faults". If they like them their opinions are as valid as those who don't.

I'm going to leave it at here before getting more off-topic, but if anyone wants to continue this discussion they can send me a PM.
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Old 2017-09-12, 17:44   Link #22
dniv
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OH&S View Post


EDIT: In order to prevent my post from being deleted I guess I'll just say this: There's no reason why you can't accept the faults of this series and still enjoy it nonetheless. I've made piece with the fact that Index isn't a critically praised masterpiece and just another sandbox for Kamachi to go crazy quite a while ago. Sometimes along the way he stumbles (NT14 and NT17 come to mind) sometimes he has resounding successes (NT6, NT8-11,NT18). It won't stop it from being my favourite LN series.

It isn't quite right to look a for a deep answer as to what Kamachi wants to communicate as it changes with each volume, story arc, saga and series. There's definitely some recurring themes that he uses but I'm pretty sure they aren't especially complex or its something that other series do a lot better. Not that its something to get hungover about.
You really like that gif don't you, lol? Also, I agree with your take on it. I think his quality goes up and down, but he's using this sandbox to create some incredible masterpieces every now and then. I mostly love his creativity and his ideas like in the long post I outlined above. You're better with words though.

That reminds me, not to take sides or anything, but I do think that some of us used to have a problem with being elitist. I say this because: "guilty as charged" . I've hopefully emotionally matured though, so it's fine. People have different opinions and everyone's experience is valid and important. It's still annoying to the people who want everyone to like something after they personally enjoyed it so much, but it isn't fair to circlejerk and ignore other people's opinions )though maybe nicer words could be used to describe the behavior lol since when you talk like that no one wants to listen to you lolol).

Rather than elitism, I think that our sub-forum has always just had a lot of miscommunication because we have lots of ingrained misunderstandings where we think we're insulting each other or arguing when we're really not trying to make each other mad... Not to preach, but I think that most of us could really work on that. I'll say though that I think OH&S is especially level-headed among us. He rarely gets childishly mad lol. The only fault I see in your responses is that you've been overly cynical and jaded over the years, Meh. That's just my opinion though.

It might be worthwhile as a community to try to find a better way of expressing points/thoughts to each other instead of going in and shouting and defending each other's honor so we can overall communicate better here and get along well instead of suffering here on the sub-form when we could all just be having fun. I mean, we all do want to have fun right? I am personally committed to work on that anyway. I think it'd be a good thing to try to improve the quality of the community. It might make it more fun to stick around even in-between novels.
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Favorite Series: 0. To aru Series 1. Ze Tian Ji 2. Reincarnator
3. The King's Avatar/ Mushoku Tensei/ Legendary Moonlight Sculptor 4. Martial World/ Great Teacher Onizuka 5. KnB/KLK/Detective Conan/ Clannad AF/Bakuman

Favorite Game Series: #0 The legend of heroes (everything but especially ZERO) #1 Zero escape series. #2 Persona series. #3 Pokemon. #4 Bravely Default series. ; #5 Ace Attorney (including the spin-offs); #6 Legend of Zelda. #7 Dragon Quest (including the spin-offs)

Favorite Anime: Castle in the Sky (why is this so underrated ) Gankutsuou; Railgun S; Little Witch Academia (one of the most philosophically interesting/deep shows that I've seen, while also being the single most feel good of feel good shows that I have ever seen; literally the weirdest combination ever); Kill la Kill (because it saved anime )
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Old 2017-10-27, 10:42   Link #23
Mazryonh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bakato View Post
Plenty of things. If Touma is any indication, he has a fetish for older woman with big busts.
If we're just sticking to Majutsu no Index, what's Kamachi Kazuma trying to say the way he keeps introducing new love interests to Touma through the volumes? It's very possible to make a best-selling and memorable love triangle story, like Maruto Fumiaki's White Album 2. But Touma's story doesn't look like a true harem, and so if he ends up with just one heroine (or even none of them) a lot of fans will be disappointed.

It's going to be dramatic enough given what will happen between Mikoto and Misaki once Touma finds out his history with Misaki. Then you have Kaori (who is Touma's fetish) and Itsuwa fighting over Touma as well. But why did Kamachi keep piling on more potential love interests on Touma, such as Orsola and Agnese? Are the later heroines just Kamachi satirizing the harem genre in general? Or is it something else, like he's making fun of the saying "You might be unlucky in life, but at least you're lucky in love"?
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Old 2017-10-27, 13:08   Link #24
KiharaRonin
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I think he's just introducing many female characters because he likes to make girl characters and because it's what sells.

As for the whole series' message, there seems to be multiple messages. Each volume contains a new message Touma (or some other protagonist) tries to prove to an antagonist. Some volumes have more than one.
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Old 2017-10-28, 19:33   Link #25
Mazryonh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KiharaRonin View Post
I think he's just introducing many female characters because he likes to make girl characters and because it's what sells.
Does each new female character that Kamachi create mean a lot of new sales of merchandise such as figures that Kadokawa can sell? I'm not so sure. It makes more sense for him to do that in To Aru Kagaku no Railgun because that story is focussed around the female student characters, like a science fantasy version of K-ON!.

But so many of the potential love interests for Touma have turned out to be red herrings in the end, like Aisa Himegami, or Index (who I've heard some people say has become a background character in a series named for her). Having all these female characters become love interests for Touma and then never have their plot threads get resolved sounds like padding the plot to me. Or is there some message Kamachi is trying to communicate through this that I'm missing?
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Old 2017-10-28, 20:07   Link #26
bakato
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazryonh View Post
If we're just sticking to Majutsu no Index, what's Kamachi Kazuma trying to say the way he keeps introducing new love interests to Touma through the volumes? It's very possible to make a best-selling and memorable love triangle story, like Maruto Fumiaki's White Album 2. But Touma's story doesn't look like a true harem, and so if he ends up with just one heroine (or even none of them) a lot of fans will be disappointed.

It's going to be dramatic enough given what will happen between Mikoto and Misaki once Touma finds out his history with Misaki. Then you have Kaori (who is Touma's fetish) and Itsuwa fighting over Touma as well. But why did Kamachi keep piling on more potential love interests on Touma, such as Orsola and Agnese? Are the later heroines just Kamachi satirizing the harem genre in general? Or is it something else, like he's making fun of the saying "You might be unlucky in life, but at least you're lucky in love"?
If by true harem you mean definitively ending up with all the girls, then Index never looked like one.

I never saw Orsola as a potential love interest. We were bound to get more female characters in trouble instead of only males.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazryonh View Post
Does each new female character that Kamachi create mean a lot of new sales of merchandise such as figures that Kadokawa can sell? I'm not so sure. It makes more sense for him to do that in To Aru Kagaku no Railgun because that story is focussed around the female student characters, like a science fantasy version of K-ON!.

But so many of the potential love interests for Touma have turned out to be red herrings in the end, like Aisa Himegami, or Index (who I've heard some people say has become a background character in a series named for her). Having all these female characters become love interests for Touma and then never have their plot threads get resolved sounds like padding the plot to me. Or is there some message Kamachi is trying to communicate through this that I'm missing?
I think calling them love interests is a bit much. Touma saved them and defended them at great personal risk and cost, demonstrating outstanding and admirable character. He's given them every reason to be smitten with him unlike other generic harem protagonists. But considering Touma has had very little contact with the heroines aside from Misaka outside of their respective crises, I don't think a romantic relationship was ever on the table. Their plot threads were resolved when Touma saved them in their respective volumes. If their regular lives don't intersect with his, then there's very little to justify further interaction. You can't fault Touma for that when he's getting dragged into someone else's personal crisis with world shattering stakes involved.

I think this is all for the best. Touma saved their days and restored their normal happy lives. Latching on afterward would be very crass. I don't think there's really any message here. It's just a natural outcome of events.
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Old 2017-10-29, 05:20   Link #27
KiharaRonin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bakato View Post
If by true harem you mean definitively ending up with all the girls, then Index never looked like one.

I never saw Orsola as a potential love interest. We were bound to get more female characters in trouble instead of only males.



I think calling them love interests is a bit much. Touma saved them and defended them at great personal risk and cost, demonstrating outstanding and admirable character. He's given them every reason to be smitten with him unlike other generic harem protagonists. But considering Touma has had very little contact with the heroines aside from Misaka outside of their respective crises, I don't think a romantic relationship was ever on the table. Their plot threads were resolved when Touma saved them in their respective volumes. If their regular lives don't intersect with his, then there's very little to justify further interaction. You can't fault Touma for that when he's getting dragged into someone else's personal crisis with world shattering stakes involved.

I think this is all for the best. Touma saved their days and restored their normal happy lives. Latching on afterward would be very crass. I don't think there's really any message here. It's just a natural outcome of events.
All of this!
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Old 2017-10-29, 07:56   Link #28
Five_Overs
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Its pretty simple, people can think whatever they want. Whether the toaru series is a masterpiece or a mediocre work, gold or trash is up to the reader to decide. As long as they explain their point of view when they disagree and not try to force others to conform to their opinions, I don't see a problem. dniv in particular is pretty good at elaborating why he think the way he does.

As for me personally, I think to aru deserves all the praise it can get. Kamachi's skill to take a bunch of seemingly irreconcilable ideas and masterfully string them together is often underrated I feel. I just cannot find any other author that comes close to what kamachi does best.
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Old 2017-11-07, 17:12   Link #29
dniv
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OH&S View Post


EDIT: In order to prevent my post from being deleted I guess I'll just say this: There's no reason why you can't accept the faults of this series and still enjoy it nonetheless. I've made piece with the fact that Index isn't a critically praised masterpiece and just another sandbox for Kamachi to go crazy quite a while ago. Sometimes along the way he stumbles (NT14 and NT17 come to mind) sometimes he has resounding successes (NT6, NT8-11,NT18). It won't stop it from being my favourite LN series.

It isn't quite right to look a for a deep answer as to what Kamachi wants to communicate as it changes with each volume, story arc, saga and series. There's definitely some recurring themes that he uses but I'm pretty sure they aren't especially complex or its something that other series do a lot better. Not that its something to get hungover about.
After reading NT 19, I now realize that your messages are starting to take on a new sinister meaning.

Choronzon represents the principle of dispersion. And that's what happens when members of a fandom clash. So if you're resisting the dispersion, then you must be Aiwass! And Kamachi said in the afterward that Aiwass is evil ... which means ... you must ... be ... evil!

I'm watching you OH&S. Trying to defuse (disperse) these tension filled gatherings ... you're either Aiwass or Coronzon stalking us. We shall not fall to you!
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Favorite Series: 0. To aru Series 1. Ze Tian Ji 2. Reincarnator
3. The King's Avatar/ Mushoku Tensei/ Legendary Moonlight Sculptor 4. Martial World/ Great Teacher Onizuka 5. KnB/KLK/Detective Conan/ Clannad AF/Bakuman

Favorite Game Series: #0 The legend of heroes (everything but especially ZERO) #1 Zero escape series. #2 Persona series. #3 Pokemon. #4 Bravely Default series. ; #5 Ace Attorney (including the spin-offs); #6 Legend of Zelda. #7 Dragon Quest (including the spin-offs)

Favorite Anime: Castle in the Sky (why is this so underrated ) Gankutsuou; Railgun S; Little Witch Academia (one of the most philosophically interesting/deep shows that I've seen, while also being the single most feel good of feel good shows that I have ever seen; literally the weirdest combination ever); Kill la Kill (because it saved anime )
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Old 2017-11-08, 05:19   Link #30
Master Assassin
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I think we do have one clear message from Kamachi after all these years looking at what he has done.

He simply loves writing so much that being paid for it is kind of a bonus for him, more or less. Considering his LNs were not the only things with his name on it, I fail to imagine that he's struggling with bills to impede with his love.

And I'm partially joking because... well, I haven't been following what's going on in Raildex much, not even after the "End of the Memetic Curse: Will There Be An Index III?"

I enjoy the flavors of his writing gimmicks he comes up with, and a number of his chapters in A Simple Monitoring kind of amuse me.

Speaking of which, it's about time I edit my signature...
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Old 2017-11-10, 14:13   Link #31
Chosen_Hero
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Quote:
What is the message that Kazuma Kamachi wants to communicate?
That being a high schooler called Kamijou Touma is suffering (most of the time) and that if you don't want to lead an indentured life at the service of powerful monsters that use you to further their plans you don't save the girl that falls from the sky.
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Old 2017-11-11, 02:52   Link #32
dniv
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chosen_Hero View Post
That being a high schooler called Kamijou Touma is suffering (most of the time) and that if you don't want to lead an indentured life at the service of powerful monsters that use you to further their plans you don't save the girl that falls from the sky.
Sounds about right. * infinity
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Favorite Series: 0. To aru Series 1. Ze Tian Ji 2. Reincarnator
3. The King's Avatar/ Mushoku Tensei/ Legendary Moonlight Sculptor 4. Martial World/ Great Teacher Onizuka 5. KnB/KLK/Detective Conan/ Clannad AF/Bakuman

Favorite Game Series: #0 The legend of heroes (everything but especially ZERO) #1 Zero escape series. #2 Persona series. #3 Pokemon. #4 Bravely Default series. ; #5 Ace Attorney (including the spin-offs); #6 Legend of Zelda. #7 Dragon Quest (including the spin-offs)

Favorite Anime: Castle in the Sky (why is this so underrated ) Gankutsuou; Railgun S; Little Witch Academia (one of the most philosophically interesting/deep shows that I've seen, while also being the single most feel good of feel good shows that I have ever seen; literally the weirdest combination ever); Kill la Kill (because it saved anime )
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