Mobile Suit Gundam 00 - Episode 10 Discussion / Poll

[LoweGear]

Something interesting to mull over...

ExhileVoid from Mechatalk tallied CB's kills on episodes 9 and 10, based on dialogue and onscreen kills:

Originally Posted by ExhileVoid

I tallied up the HRL losses, Setsuna confirmed the HRL sent 36 Tieren Space as decoys. The rest were part of Sergei's "Gundam Capture Team."

* 2 Destroyed by Virtue's GN Bazooka
* 1 was destroyed immediately afterwards
* 6 Destroyed by Nadleeh's GN Cannons
* Ming's was killed by Hallelujah
* The only survivors of the "Gundam Capture Team" were Sergei and Soma.
* Setsuna and Lockon took down only 9 Tierens together before the signal flare was fired.

So...

Decoy Team
* 36 Tierens at the beginning
* 9 Destroyed
* 27 Survived and Retreated

Gundam Capture Team
* 12 Tierens at the beginning
* 10 Destroyed
* Only Sergei and Soma Survived

Overall
* 48 Tierens at the beginning
* 19 were destroyed
* 29 Surviving pilots total after operation

[Kageh]

What is up with the characters in this show? They're all insane.

Also, it feels like the episodes alternate between absurd and decent. I felt 9 set things up nicely for the main characters to get cornered, but the way they busted out was.... annoying.

I mean, they locked down that winged unit only for the pilot to regain consciousness, go insane, and then rip through the carrier ship like it was made out of tin foil. I mean.... COME ON. NO contingency plan on that one? The ship didn't even have an escort.

What's more, I think it's safe to assume that all those Gundams have self-destruct devices installed in the event of capture with no hope of escape. I... *sigh*... anime. Nevermind.

Did not like this episode.

[HazardNights]

I think it might be an issue of the Gundam pilots going up against trained military troops. Heero was put through training in order to like he was as well (due to his personality we could see that he wasn't normal and something had to have been done to him). We are all assuming that the Gundam 00 pilots have gone through this but for all we know they could simply been trained on the technology and are relying on that. They seem to have to many problems I think and most likely they were simply picked for other things not based on fighting skill. For all we know before the series started they didn't have any actual battle experience or didn't have any serious practice battles. Now I might be wrong but from the looks of things it seems they rely on their technology being more advance than anything else. When they are forced to rely on skill or have to go up against a good tactic(say against Graham, Ali, Soma, or Sergai) we see them not do so well or are simply forced to rely on more technology sooner then they expected (which makes me think they clearly thought they would have the upper hand due to their technology).

I think someone said before if it wasn't for the gap in technology the Gundams would have been taken out by now. It's really all they have going for them.

[Cherudim Arche]

I think the way they experimented on them is very different from wing. Wing had very rigid and intense drills for all five pilots. They acted more normal compared to the ones on 00 on the battlefield.

I don't think better technology is the key, Graham, Ali, ,and Sergei proved that it isn't that important, unless you implement the strategy to severe effect. Sergei underestimated tha gundams once again. Let's hope someone can actually excute a successful plan other than CB.

[Itadakimasu!]

God this episode just made Tieria Awesome ! Soma seems to be really annoying though.... and Hallelujah rocked

[Cherudim Arche]

What time did Veda have planned for Virtue to reveal Nadleeh?


Hallelujah sure loves the thought of slaughering soldiers even more than Setsuna.

[ashlay]

Originally Posted by Dynames/ Virtue

What time did Veda have planned for Virtue to reveal Nadleeh?


Hallelujah sure loves the thought of slaughering soldiers even more than Setsuna.

I wasn't aware Setsuna was able to experience emotions like love and joy. -_-

oh, and seeing as how no one's been freaking out about that mission in episode 5 being canceled (and the fact everyone in CB seems to know about Nadleeh, so it wasn't an anti-mutiny measure), I think Tieria is just overreacting: Nadleeh was meant for situations like this episode.

[Cherudim Arche]

I bet it is possible for him and Lockon, as for the rest, it might as well be a dream.

[idofgrahf]

Originally Posted by Dynames/ Virtue

I think the way they experimented on them is very different from wing. Wing had very rigid and intense drills for all five pilots. They acted more normal compared to the ones on 00 on the battlefield.

I don't think better technology is the key, Graham, Ali, ,and Sergei proved that it isn't that important, unless you implement the strategy to severe effect. Sergei underestimated tha gundams once again. Let's hope someone can actually excute a successful plan other than CB.

I don't think he underistmates them in so much as he does not possess enough intelligence on his enemies, while his enemies seem to know everything (in military hardware) that he has. His approach is rather cautious and the number of suits assigned was less than 50, (this comming from former USSR and China is a low number considering what they have). Although he failed he did seem to get some good intel on them so it wasn't an ulter failure.

As for training, logic would dictate that these pilots be trained as much as possible so they don't lose their Gundams, so I'm guessing they were trained but they seem (so far) to lack any real talent, in other words, average grunts in the normal military, good enough to fight but not good enough to stand out unlike Heero, Kira, Amuro, Char, Kamillie etc who seem to possess excemptional aptitude for MS combat.

[Slayerx]

Originally Posted by Dynames/ Virtue

What time did Veda have planned for Virtue to reveal Nadleeh?

Considering how Teirra said that he revealed Nadleeh "so early", i would say much later on... like if we had to put this in terms of episodes he might have been saving it for like episode 40 or something... apparently, CB still has a long road ahead of them, and right now is only the earlier parts of their overall goal... it could be that they were saving nadleeh for a major battle they were planning on in the long run and part of the plan was to take the enemy by surprise (perhaps they were taking into account that eventually the enemy would start to find ways to fight them... like we saw here), but know that the enemy knows about nadleeh and as such will be sure to take it into account in all future plans

[Cherudim Arche]

I mean if they ever had a normal or special training, it borders more on insanity here rather train with variety of tactics.

Granham has better success with his flag then on Sergei attempts. I think if he was going to confront them again, he should at least set a diversion force there as well.
He should have more artillery units.

I assume that most of the other pilots acquired advance combat skills more from the battlefield than any training program set by any faction.

[Lendial]

finaly an exciting EP.

nadleeh sure looks awesome but it didnt actually do anything, it was helpful in getting free of the ropes and fluids but after that it just blasted them with virtue's shoulder cannons.

so i take it that the other 3 gundams have a similar super-mode?

[idofgrahf]

Originally Posted by Dynames/ Virtue

Granham has better success with his flag then on Sergei attempts. I think if he was going to confront them again, he should at least set a diversion force there as well.
He should have more artillery units.

if your going to say that then the HLR should have sent what equates to their version of Oddessa (UC 0079 when ESF used 1/3 of its forces) against the CB and simply crush them, but the thing is, such a large deployment (Division sized or over) might have international consquences.

As for training, at least Setsuna has actual combat experience before joining, (although he acts the worst in terms of behavior, opening his cockpit in battle anyone?) don't know the others but its a safe bet that they are taught how to fight by CB if they don't know it already.

[Cherudim Arche]

I am thinking more like 8 well trained soldiers. Than it falls to the problem of using wave attacks against the gundams, for every break it becomes a greater problem what is worse is the technology difference.

[Slayerx]

Originally Posted by Lendial

so i take it that the other 3 gundams have a similar super-mode?

doubtful...
for one, Nadleeh does not seem like so much as a super mode, but an alternate way of fighting that can seriously throw off the enemies...
Two, unlike virtue, when you strip down the other gundams you don't really have much difference from what you had before... Virtue on the other hand does a completely 180 on it's abilities, going from high defence, attack and low mobility, to good attack, low defence and high mobility
and three, even though it was not mentioned in the episode, Nadleeh is actually considered a separate gundam with the number GN-004, and is not treated as a part of Virtue... this completes the GN-001-5 numbering that exist for the gundams... their are no numbers left missing like GN-004 did, so their is unlikely going to be something inside the other gundams

grant it, though if your talkign more like an in general super-mode and not something similar to Virtue's... in a sence their might
One example might be Dynamas's ability to snipe objects in orbit from down on earth... that was supposed to remain a secret and until they used it to save those poeple... the other gundams might also have some kind of trump card add on aswell....

[Eidolon Sniper]

Originally Posted by LoweGear

Something interesting to mull over...

ExhileVoid from Mechatalk tallied CB's kills on episodes 9 and 10, based on dialogue and onscreen kills:

Lockon did say that he shot down 7 Tierens right? Then Setsuna said he shot down 9 after that Lockon scene...

[Duo Maxwell]

Originally Posted by Eidolon Sniper

Lockon did say that he shot down 7 Tierens right? Then Setsuna said he shot down 9 after that Lockon scene...

They assume that both of them took down 9 in total, because after Lockon say 7, Setsuna destroyed 2 more suits. However, at first I think it's Lockon owned 7 suits, and Setsuna scored another 9 suits, that makes it total 16 suits.

[Dean_the_Young]

Out of curiosity, why do some people say that the pilots of Celestial Being are horrible and rely solely on their Gundams and so on? The only pilot to be outmanuvered (because the enemy planned tactics specifically for him) was Tieria and the Virtue, who relied on his (only) two weapons and tried to overpower the Tierens with the GN drive. Tieria was the one saved solely by his mecha, so I could understand him, even if I would argue that the NG-004 is not a deus ex machina.

But Allelujah was only captured because of Soma's presence. And while you could argue that the Kyrios broke out of its container solely due to its strength, that has nothing to do with its tactics. The only proper fighting Kyrios did was against Ming, who willingly threw himself to his death, just trying to push the Kyrios away from the retreating Sergei and Soma. Had he done that to a Union Flag, he would have been just as dead.

Setsuna fought with the twin restrictions of both being a short-range fighter and having to stay close to the Ptolemy. Setsuna doesn't get drawn out by the lure, he doesn't just rely on his armor to keep him safe, and he spends most of the time dashing to and fro trying to keep off the enemy MS, and still manages to cut a few. He doesn't just rely on his MS to tear though the opposition, which is what they try and goad him into doing.

And Lockon could hardly be said to have a major advantage in this fight. He was immobile and faced with an easily exploitable blind spot, his targeting computer was majorly off, he couldn't fire at MS close by for fear of damaging the ship, and was constantly covered by the GN barrier. He fought despite his mech, not because of it.

[Eidolon Sniper]

I was thinking that way too, because Lockon said he got 7 down, then Setsuna said he took down 9 suits...

[LoweGear]

Originally Posted by Eidolon Sniper

I was thinking that way too, because Lockon said he got 7 down, then Setsuna said he took down 9 suits...

I'm looking it up on Mendoi's here, and Lockon mentioned "7 down", then afterwards when Setsuna takes out 2 more he mentions "that's make 9". Which means he added the two kills to Lockon's tally, thus making it 9 suits in total, rather than Lockon having 7 individual kills and Setsuna having 9. It's a matter of context in the flow of the dialogue.