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Old 2021-11-27, 23:44   Link #201
BWTraveller
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Originally Posted by Rasty View Post
I find it fairly ridiculous that every time there is a rape, sexual abuse or even an attempt in the story half the internet comes down with how terrible it is and how that seriousness was understated in the show, and how there should have been lengthy episodes delving into the characters deep trauma. On the other hand, there is domestic abuse, violence, murder in front of characters' eyes, betrayal, or even direct prolonged torture, but no one ever cares or finds it strange that the characters aren't seriously affected past the episode it happens it.

For an example, Rio in Seirei Gensokuki is betrayed after helping someone, imprisoned, tortured, and just after that he is fine and dandy never mentioning this again, holding a grudge, being distrusting or acting in a traumatized way (despite that this thing should trigger at least mild PTSD in almost anyone). I have seen no one complaining about this (or I missed it, that's possible), but it's a pretty common theme in a lot of anime and usually is not commented about.

Or there is the "overcome murder" theme. The characters are so out of their mind for killing something/someone for the first time that they vomit and go into a shock, but then after calming down they never get any nightmares, or relapses later on.
That's why I made a point of including such things as recently-deceased loved ones, bullying and other things that can result in trauma. Rape can certainly have some very unique lasting effects, but any and all of these can scar a person for years or decades. But again, as I've said several times, I most certainly do not think there should be "lengthy episodes" dealing with the girls' recovery. I just don't think they should then be shown afterward taking everything up to and including a new attempted rape without any evidence of disturbance.

If a person lost someone close right before their eyes, then they should occasionally show some excessive concern for other loved ones, maybe jump to the front more often or show a few moments of panic when they see a loved one in what appears to be danger. If a person was bullied, we should see an impact on how they take persecution directed toward themselves or others. Doesn't matter if the character is central and repeating or a one-time mob, their reactions to things that happen to them should reflect those past traumas when there's correlation of this level. Trauma of any kind shouldn't just be tossed aside when it's no longer crucial to the plot, especially if you're going to play it up so much when it is. Either keep it short and understated from the beginning or pay attention as long as the characters involved are part of the story.

I'd say the manga made a good move here: Maha wasn't introduced with chapters recounting in detail how her friends were forced into prostitution and she was minutes from suffering the same fate. It just commented that she'd come from a very abusive place and mentioned how this'd led her to distrust everyone and subsequently helped him convince her to cling adoringly to her "big brother". Short, simple, to the point, and doesn't give enough detail to impress on the reader the degree of trauma she'd experience. Here the treatment shown now contrasts harshly against the graphic demonstration from before, even when just a little bit could've evened things out a bit.
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Old 2021-11-28, 15:34   Link #202
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Originally Posted by BWTraveller View Post
How's it lip service to have a character behave in a believable way? And again, as I said before it could even give even more depth to the character depending on how Maha's drawn dealing with Ifa's distress. It can even be useful to some missions potentially. Being part of a group that's killing wrongdoers and saving victims, someone who's able to empathize with them and knows how to handle them would also be a big benefit. Not just to deal with the victims if there's a risk of them getting in the way, but also to communicate with them for more information.

And how does it at all take away from the demonstration that Lugh's making a difference? Do you need to see every single person a hero saves make it out with absolutely no lasting injuries or evidence that anything even happened to get the message across that the hero's saving lives? He gave them a new life free from their abusers; they don't be completely mentally healed from all trauma to buy that he saved them. The very fact that they're able to smile at work and do their best for themselves now is proof.
While I'd love to see that, World's Finest Assassin just isn't that kind of story. It doesn't delve into the darkness of how humans cause lasting harm to one another and how they deal with it, it's a wish fulfillment story where killing the bad guy magically solves all the problems. (In fact, this is its very premise - in real life bad guys are often left alive specifically because they're needed in the aftermath so the show's assassination approach does not make any realistic sense, particularly when it comes to assassinating nobles.) Being a hopeful story like that, it needs to take care not to show the realistic consequences of the harm caused by the villains as it would break the illusion that the protagonist killing bad guys magically solves all problems. If we didn't see the girls all happy in the past two episodes as if they forgot about everything that happened, the story would be too depressing for many viewers. A large part of the appeal of isekai is this idealism.

I do however fully agree that in light of this, they simply should not have shown another attempted abduction involving the same girls. I get that the artistic intent was to mirror the earlier situation and show that in this same situation everything is now all right because Maha is there to protect them, but it's kind of hard to buy everything's sunshine and rainbows when someone re-experiences a traumatic event, even if they are saved this time.

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Originally Posted by Rasty View Post
For an example, Rio in Seirei Gensokuki is betrayed after helping someone, imprisoned, tortured, and just after that he is fine and dandy never mentioning this again, holding a grudge, being distrusting or acting in a traumatized way (despite that this thing should trigger at least mild PTSD in almost anyone). I have seen no one complaining about this (or I missed it, that's possible), but it's a pretty common theme in a lot of anime and usually is not commented about.
You're ignoring the context here. Rio had been abused for a long time by this point; after his happy earliest years before his parents were murdered, he lived as an abused slave for a gang of hoodlums. It was immediately following this period that the imprisonment and torture for helping someone happened. It was just 'more of the usual'. The abuse as a whole (including earlier abuse) definitely made their mark on him, but on a much deeper level (probably in part because he was so young at the time) - rather than being a separate trauma, he's developed a generally withdrawn personality, being a loner who keeps his distance from people. When
Spoiler:
; he had no other friends or close acquaintances.

In addition, he definitely did distrust people before he started traveling (his positive encounters later probably made him figure only his home town was that hostile) and his reason for living on was to eventually take revenge for his mother's murder (which becomes a plot point later on as he starts to doubt if that's what he should live for, having found other things important to him).

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Originally Posted by BWTraveller View Post
I'd say the manga made a good move here: Maha wasn't introduced with chapters recounting in detail how her friends were forced into prostitution and she was minutes from suffering the same fate. It just commented that she'd come from a very abusive place and mentioned how this'd led her to distrust everyone and subsequently helped him convince her to cling adoringly to her "big brother". Short, simple, to the point, and doesn't give enough detail to impress on the reader the degree of trauma she'd experience. Here the treatment shown now contrasts harshly against the graphic demonstration from before, even when just a little bit could've evened things out a bit.
There's no need to cut out the anime backstory. They just had to let some random other girls which hadn't gone through the trauma get almost abducted and have Maha go 'not this time!', saving them from the fate her friends met. It wouldn't highlight the bonds with her friends, but it would show how the situation has changed now and still makes Maha looks like a badass, while avoiding the PTSD subject.
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Old 2021-11-28, 16:26   Link #203
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Originally Posted by VDZ View Post
There's no need to cut out the anime backstory. They just had to let some random other girls which hadn't gone through the trauma get almost abducted and have Maha go 'not this time!', saving them from the fate her friends met. It wouldn't highlight the bonds with her friends, but it would show how the situation has changed now and still makes Maha looks like a badass, while avoiding the PTSD subject.
I really like that idea. It'd avoid putting the girl most abused through basically the same experience all over again, and thus avoid the disconnect for viewers like me who lose immersion when a character should show some response to threats of repeated trauma but doesn't, while showing off Maha's capability and her dedication. Yes, like you said we'd lose a brief interaction between her and her friends, but we'd get a demonstration that she's looking out for more than just them. Heck, it could even tie in to her information network that they'd talked about. Some random girls are walking around when they're attacked by ruffians, only to be quickly subdued by Maha who talks of how she'd heard there were some new guys in town with unsavory intentions, and tells them to spread the word: if you try something like this in her town, she'll know.
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Old 2021-12-01, 11:01   Link #204
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Lugh is ready to do his first official assasination in his new life, and he's already mobilizing Maha and his resources to get it done .

Lugh's mom found out about his wet dream and is eager to see her son erect to know for sure that he's a man and see him undressed to see how much he's grown. Such wonderful motherly attention, even if Lugh wants none of it .

I guess Cian didn't tell his wife that Lugh has his heart set on marrying Dia, while she wants to make sure she has grandkids. Although Tarte doesn't want to see Lugh married off to any girl, and then we get her complimenting Lugh's mom on her youth and Lugh's mom saying she'd be happy with Tarte bearing Lugh's kids and being his wife, and Tarte getting flustered because she wouldn't mind it either...man, that conversation was hilarious .

The Goddess summoned paparazzi to defeat the Hero? And her cosplay was just some simple overalls, although she wore them well. At this point it seems like she's scraping the bottom of the barrel with these attempts to kill the Hero, especially when the guy (and is that Shinichiro Miki or Junich Suwabe I hear?) gets run over by a horse .

Jeez, pretty bad drug problem if you're getting a little girls' mother addicted and then making her sell the drugs to help her mother. Thank goodness Lugh was able to help her .

Lugh is using Illig to infiltrate Count Venkaur's home, which gives Maha a perfect opportunity to cozy back up to him after their time apart. She also wants him to pay attention to Tarte, and Maha is pretty well aware that Lugh is in love with Dia and just sees them as siblings, but he should be better aware that both Tarte and herself are in love with him and don't see him as a sibling. Tarte would also be satisfied being a mistress which, as a noble, wouldn't be that surprising, while Maha is biding her time to make sure Lugh needs her more before making her move on him romantically. Maha is pretty intelligent and direct about her feelings and her intentions, especially when it comes to the man she loves .

So Tarte also has her own black leather assassin outfit, which is basically a leotard, and it definitely accentuates her butt .

Whatever else you can say about Count Venkaur as someone selling drugs and giving out state secrets, he cherished and loved his wife, and she in turn loved him. And then Lugh got to saw her grief after he assassinated him. The Count had it coming, but that doesn't mean there isn't a cost to killing someone who was loved by others. And Lugh will take that into his heart unlike his old cold, emotionless, assassin self .
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Old 2021-12-01, 15:05   Link #205
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I actually like the Goddess idea of driving Hero to suicide by using DJ and Paparazzi.

So.......look like it is acceptable for Nobel like Lugh to have some mistresses. Nice to see that Maha know how to take advantage of her position.
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Old 2021-12-01, 22:23   Link #206
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That mother is quite disturbing to me. I don't care if you think it's a proof that your son's growing up, you shouldn't be eager to see, smell or in any other way observe your child's nocturnal emissions. Or to check out his maturing body. The father gets a partial pass due to the fact that he was gathering data to use in adjusting the training and ensure Lugh developed in an optimal manner for an assassin; the mother just wants to enjoy her baby boy's body.

Honestly, I'm kind of glad they went with simply "make Tart and me your mistresses" rather than throwing in something like "it's legal to have multiple wives". I certainly can buy a culture with an extremely high mortality rate working to focus the mortality on men over women and then, with a strong male to female skew, permitting multiple wives to those that've proven themselves able to support them. That said, it's been done, and the series that do it don't always do a good job of convincing me that there's that few men out there. Simpler to just go with the obvious, and believable for a medieval/Renaissance age world even more than modern, path of "a noble man should have a few mistresses".
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Old 2021-12-01, 23:42   Link #207
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Originally Posted by Rasty View Post
For an example, Rio in Seirei Gensokuki is betrayed after helping someone, imprisoned, tortured, and just after that he is fine and dandy never mentioning this again, holding a grudge, being distrusting or acting in a traumatized way (despite that this thing should trigger at least mild PTSD in almost anyone). I have seen no one complaining about this (or I missed it, that's possible), but it's a pretty common theme in a lot of anime and usually is not commented about.
I did actually bitch about Rio's lack of grudge related to his mistreatment But yea, handwaving traumatic experiences and quickly forgiving people for atrocious misdeeds is like anime 101. It annoys the hell out of me sometimes.

I just rewatched Saiunkoku Monogatari, where the lead girl is poisoned by someone in an attempt to kill her, yet later when she runs into the poisoner (knowing they were responsible) she's all fine with them and even invites them to accompany her. She even drinks the tea they make and eats food they prepare. I couldn't have resisted some snarky comments like "did you season it with anything... weird??" lol
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Old 2021-12-02, 00:30   Link #208
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Originally Posted by BWTraveller View Post
That mother is quite disturbing to me. I don't care if you think it's a proof that your son's growing up, you shouldn't be eager to see, smell or in any other way observe your child's nocturnal emissions. Or to check out his maturing body. The father gets a partial pass due to the fact that he was gathering data to use in adjusting the training and ensure Lugh developed in an optimal manner for an assassin; the mother just wants to enjoy her baby boy's body.
She's just eager to have grandkids...
Quote:
Honestly, I'm kind of glad they went with simply "make Tart and me your mistresses" rather than throwing in something like "it's legal to have multiple wives". I certainly can buy a culture with an extremely high mortality rate working to focus the mortality on men over women and then, with a strong male to female skew, permitting multiple wives to those that've proven themselves able to support them. That said, it's been done, and the series that do it don't always do a good job of convincing me that there's that few men out there. Simpler to just go with the obvious, and believable for a medieval/Renaissance age world even more than modern, path of "a noble man should have a few mistresses".
Kind of interesting contrast with setting up how it's typical for nobles to have mistresses and then we see the one corrupt noble being depicted as very dedicated and loving to his wife (not that I think there's really thing to that, just something I was thinking about).
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Old 2021-12-02, 01:44   Link #209
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It should be noted that Nobel has mistresses mainly to increase a chance of producing a heir(s) to continue their bloodline.
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Old 2021-12-02, 03:01   Link #210
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Anyone a bit suspicious that we never got to see the corrupt noble doing his business, i.e. being a horrible human being and so on? The show never has shied away from that in the least, meaning that it was very overt with showing horrible people being horrible people. So I'm kinda curious if it is trying to pull a fast one on us by showing all the circumstancial evidence, but never the assassination target actually doing the stuff he is being assassinated for.

In sum, I wouldn't wonder too much if down the line we get a revelation that Lugh assassinated the wrong person.
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Old 2021-12-02, 04:00   Link #211
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Originally Posted by magnuskn View Post
Anyone a bit suspicious that we never got to see the corrupt noble doing his business, i.e. being a horrible human being and so on? The show never has shied away from that in the least, meaning that it was very overt with showing horrible people being horrible people. So I'm kinda curious if it is trying to pull a fast one on us by showing all the circumstancial evidence, but never the assassination target actually doing the stuff he is being assassinated for.

In sum, I wouldn't wonder too much if down the line we get a revelation that Lugh assassinated the wrong person.
Nah, you are overthinking things here. The whole point of this story was to show your typical "even the evil people can have their loved ones" and that not all of Tuata De victims are 100% evil. So they showed us the circumstances of counts actuons and subtly hinted that he is actully guilty (like him mentioning to Lugh that his buisiness is not something Lugh would like to get involved with) but decided not to show him doing evil deeds on screen not to make a contrast with his relationships with his wife.
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Old 2021-12-02, 04:22   Link #212
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Completely possible. However, I just wanted to bring up the possibility, since the execution of this story seemed to specifically go out of its way to not show the guy being overtly evil, like it did with pretty much everybody else who was so far.
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Old 2021-12-02, 08:45   Link #213
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Hmm.. no mention here of Maha casually dropping the tidbit that Lugh goes visiting the brothel to "occasionally blow off steam" when he was in Milteu.
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Old 2021-12-02, 09:40   Link #214
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Actually while I was watching it I was wondering if we were going to find out that his wife was going to be revealed as the real criminal here. She certainly seems caught up in material wealth, and the man feels rather genuine in his kindness. I was almost betting we'd end up with Lugh finding out that she was running it all behind his back to give herself the wealth and status she felt she/they deserved. Could still be but I find it a bit less likely since we're supposed to believe Lugh's personally and carefully investigating his targets before he dispatches them. If it is though, could even go further and say that the wife wasn't really crying over her husband out of love. The spouse of a lord/lady doesn't always have a right to the household. Ownership would more likely fall to the ruler's child with the widow(er) acting as regent until they're old enough to rule; without a child, the spouse could be disenfranchised. As such, she could be mourning her loss of station, or fretting that she won't be able to maintain the trade without his status as a backing. Just a thought.
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Old 2021-12-02, 11:27   Link #215
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Actually while I was watching it I was wondering if we were going to find out that his wife was going to be revealed as the real criminal here. She certainly seems caught up in material wealth, and the man feels rather genuine in his kindness. I was almost betting we'd end up with Lugh finding out that she was running it all behind his back to give herself the wealth and status she felt she/they deserved. Could still be but I find it a bit less likely since we're supposed to believe Lugh's personally and carefully investigating his targets before he dispatches them. If it is though, could even go further and say that the wife wasn't really crying over her husband out of love. The spouse of a lord/lady doesn't always have a right to the household. Ownership would more likely fall to the ruler's child with the widow(er) acting as regent until they're old enough to rule; without a child, the spouse could be disenfranchised. As such, she could be mourning her loss of station, or fretting that she won't be able to maintain the trade without his status as a backing. Just a thought.
I actaully had the same thought. That the count wil be just a bait here and his wife is the actual mastermind, but seemss like it was not the intention here.

P.S.: I am actaully thinking of buying the LNs (they got licensed by Yen Press). If no extra spendings come out this month, I will check if the vol. 1 translation is decent.

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Hmm.. no mention here of Maha casually dropping the tidbit that Lugh goes visiting the brothel to "occasionally blow off steam" when he was in Milteu.
A friend already spoiled it to me after last ep. But good thing they did not cut this.
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Old 2021-12-02, 13:27   Link #216
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Hmm.. no mention here of Maha casually dropping the tidbit that Lugh goes visiting the brothel to "occasionally blow off steam" when he was in Milteu.
My guess is that he did it mostly to get new experiences. Doing it with prostitutes can be fruitfull coz there's no complicated emotion involved and he can freely learn & try some "techniques" in case he needs to do it for missions.
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Old 2021-12-02, 14:18   Link #217
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I was surprised he was punching his v-card early before he got with Dia (not including whatever experience he had in his prior life) but I assume he wanted to make sure that wet dream that happened with Tarte and Maha never happened again .
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Old 2021-12-02, 16:20   Link #218
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Honestly it does make sense. As I'd said before, seduction and performance in bed are incredibly valuable skills for assassins and spies and other such occupations, so failing to get experience or, in this case, brush up and fine-tune one's old techniques for the new body, would be potentially very detrimental to his work. But as Obelisk said, using his closest associates, whom he's chosen to view as "family" as well as subordinates and who he knows harbor feelings for him as well, as practice partners in such acts would carry all sorts of extra baggage. Not to mention that one could reason there may be differences between making love to someone dear and screwing a stranger whose spouse you intend to murder. A prostitute who has a great deal of experience and no emotional connection, who will thus give a more impartial and meaningful appraisal and can be approached in a more similar manner to his targets, would be a far better partner here.
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Old 2021-12-02, 16:39   Link #219
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You guys are way overthinking this.

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Completely possible. However, I just wanted to bring up the possibility, since the execution of this story seemed to specifically go out of its way to not show the guy being overtly evil, like it did with pretty much everybody else who was so far.
Much like with the trauma not being depicted last episode, they omitted it because it would clash against the thematic intent of the story. The whole point of this mission was to show Lugh's character development, now being capable of feeling sympathy for his victims. If the show had gone out and shown the guy actually doing evil stuff, his death could be cathartic (fuck yes, less evil in the world) and the sympathy part would fall flat. (Not just for the guy himself - the woman whose husband died grew rich off blood money, a point viewers should not be thinking about when the guy gets his just deserts is mercilessly assassinated.) It should show only enough to justify Lugh's decision to assassinate (making him a good guy despite murdering people for a living), while avoiding disdain for the actual culprit. Considering nobody went 'fuck yeah' when the guy got shot (remember those crippled soldiers earlier in the episode? That's all his fault, and he did it purely for personal gain) I'd say they succeeded and it was the right choice to approach it like this.
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Old 2021-12-03, 06:33   Link #220
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Hmm.. no mention here of Maha casually dropping the tidbit that Lugh goes visiting the brothel to "occasionally blow off steam" when he was in Milteu.
There's not much to say really.

It's a very pragmatic way to deal with his desires since he wants to avoid a casual sex relationship with Tarte.

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You guys are way overthinking this.


Much like with the trauma not being depicted last episode, they omitted it because it would clash against the thematic intent of the story. The whole point of this mission was to show Lugh's character development, now being capable of feeling sympathy for his victims. If the show had gone out and shown the guy actually doing evil stuff, his death could be cathartic (fuck yes, less evil in the world) and the sympathy part would fall flat. (Not just for the guy himself - the woman whose husband died grew rich off blood money, a point viewers should not be thinking about when the guy gets his just deserts is mercilessly assassinated.) It should show only enough to justify Lugh's decision to assassinate (making him a good guy despite murdering people for a living), while avoiding disdain for the actual culprit. Considering nobody went 'fuck yeah' when the guy got shot (remember those crippled soldiers earlier in the episode? That's all his fault, and he did it purely for personal gain) I'd say they succeeded and it was the right choice to approach it like this.
Right.

Lugh didn't kill him because he's a bad person but because he's doing bad things. The distinction between those two things is more interesting than Lugh accidently killing the wrong person.
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