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Old 2013-06-06, 12:49   Link #2261
Shinji103
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Originally Posted by Soverence View Post
For a Kirino end though this is nearly perfect, all the signs basically say this is a Kirino end without all the social issue that would surround a actual incestuous relationship between the two.
That actually only makes it more of a cop-out. Instead of giving us a definitive ending, the author opted to leave it like this to avoid having to address the social issues. So after all the addressing problems that this series went through, the author cheapskates on us.
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Old 2013-06-06, 12:50   Link #2262
Okashira
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Originally Posted by Flying Dagger View Post
Spoiler:
Really? I feel that it's exactly the opposite, and that from pretty much the start the novel was working on this type of environment

Spoiler:
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Old 2013-06-06, 12:53   Link #2263
seangel92
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Spoiler for :


I need to know it.
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Old 2013-06-06, 12:53   Link #2264
ID555
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Originally Posted by SigUp View Post
But seeing this...
Spoiler for Reply to Spoiler:

Ouch. It's really weird that in this light-hearted novel, there's actually a character that's the closest thing to a two-faced villain....

Then again the ending is weird.

So what's the conclusion? Can I be happy for Kirino shippers or is the ending not even good enough for that?
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Old 2013-06-06, 12:55   Link #2265
Shinji103
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Originally Posted by ID555 View Post
So what's the conclusion? Can I be happy for Kirino shippers or is the ending not even good enough for that?
Assuming the spoilers we're going off of are accurate, the ending is only good enough for the Kirino shippers if they use their imaginations and come up with a get-together ending themselves.

The only other possibility is the 10-year-after novel thing that comes with season 2 volume 1.
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Old 2013-06-06, 12:56   Link #2266
Phantom
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Unlike most people here, I have really not shipped any character with someone else. I just wanted the siblings back together in a sibling-ly way. It seems that my wish was somewhat granted after looking at the Spoilers.

Last edited by relentlessflame; 2013-06-06 at 13:29. Reason: don't ask for raws
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Old 2013-06-06, 12:56   Link #2267
ID555
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Originally Posted by Shinji103 View Post
Assuming the spoilers we're going off of are accurate, the ending is only good enough for the Kirino shippers if they use their imaginations and come up with a get-together ending themselves.

The only other possibility is the 10-year-after novel thing that comes with season 2 volume 1.

Yikes. Thanks.
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Old 2013-06-06, 13:01   Link #2268
Flying Dagger
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Originally Posted by Okashira View Post
Really? I feel that it's exactly the opposite, and that from pretty much the start the novel was working on this type of environment

Spoiler:
Spoiler:
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Old 2013-06-06, 13:01   Link #2269
Soverence
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Originally Posted by Shinji103 View Post
That actually only makes it more of a cop-out. Instead of giving us a definitive ending, the author opted to leave it like this to avoid having to address the social issues. So after all the addressing problems that this series went through, the author cheapskates on us.
This series was never really about the social issues and all that though and for the most part Manami was meant to represent all of society, she basically shared the view that the average person in society would have had with the relationship. Them confronting Manami was basically the same as they confronting society without actually doing it since if they actually had to deal with society their futures would be ruined (since societies now a days are basically "messed up once? go die in a hole your replaceable").

Also first and foremost, I have always seen this series as a comedy more than anything else, the good drama the series had as well was a bonus on top of the comedy that it brought. Until like volume 11 this series was not very serious at all, it was afterwards the drama overtook the comedy so we basically have 10 volumes of mainly comedy and 2 of mainly drama.
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Old 2013-06-06, 13:08   Link #2270
Mystic_Vegetto
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Originally Posted by Soverence View Post
This series was never really about the social issues and all that though and for the most part Manami was meant to represent all of society, she basically shared the view that the average person in society would have had with the relationship. Them confronting Manami was basically the same as they confronting society without actually doing it since if they actually had to deal with society their futures would be ruined (since societies now a days are basically "messed up once? go die in a hole your replaceable").

Also first and foremost, I have always seen this series as a comedy more than anything else, the good drama the series had as well was a bonus on top of the comedy that it brought. Until like volume 11 this series was not very serious at all, it was afterwards the drama overtook the comedy so we basically have 10 volumes of mainly comedy and 2 of mainly drama.
The author has said before that he always intended the series to be a Comedy rather than anything serious.

Yaraon has confirmed the Ending relentlessflame posted earlier...

Spoiler:
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Old 2013-06-06, 13:10   Link #2271
Shinji103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soverence View Post
This series was never really about the social issues and all that though and for the most part Manami was meant to represent all of society, she basically shared the view that the average person in society would have had with the relationship. Them confronting Manami was basically the same as they confronting society without actually doing it since if they actually had to deal with society their futures would be ruined (since societies now a days are basically "messed up once? go die in a hole your replaceable").
Which still leaves us with a cop-out; they drop the sibling lovers thing later, only to pick it back up, or do they? Just a blank slate instead of giving us anything definitive and how they'd handle their relationship in actual society.

Quote:
Also first and foremost, I have always seen this series as a comedy more than anything else, the good drama the series had as well was a bonus on top of the comedy that it brought. Until like volume 11 this series was not very serious at all, it was afterwards the drama overtook the comedy so we basically have 10 volumes of mainly comedy and 2 of mainly drama.
I'd argue that the drama was at least every bit as important as the comedy since the beginning, from the sibling cold war going on between Kyousuke and Kirino, to handling things like Ayase finding out about Kirino's otaku-ness and the drama/angst that resulted.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystic_Vegetto View Post
The author has said before that he always intended the series to be a Comedy rather than anything serious.
The end result turned out different from what he wanted, then. (As I said, the comedy is strong, but the drama is at least just as strong)
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Old 2013-06-06, 13:11   Link #2272
sleepingleo
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Manami is not the only "society" factor. The author "conveniently forgot" to include their parents input here.

People tend to forget, Kyousuke and Kirino are not the only one that will face scorn, their parents also will.

In a "reality inspired environment" just like this book, I just cannot buy the idea of the incest ending. That 10 years short must (or should) clarify that in the end the siblings ARE siblings, not lovers.
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Old 2013-06-06, 13:12   Link #2273
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystic_Vegetto View Post
The author has said before that he always intended the series to be a Comedy rather than anything serious.

Yaraon has confirmed the Ending relentlessflame posted earlier...

Spoiler:
Spoiler for we:
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Old 2013-06-06, 13:17   Link #2274
tommythecat
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I hope the anime goes a different route. Because there will be hell to pay with an open ending there I'm sure and I feel like the incest end, while makes some sense thematically, is not the best way for this whole series to end on.

I don't want to say I hate how it turned out because I want to read every translated word before I can make that call but it all seems so ambiguous and purposely misleading(he likes doing this remember) even if you infer they are still together.
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Old 2013-06-06, 13:20   Link #2275
Mystic_Vegetto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seangel92 View Post
Spoiler for we:
Spoiler:


@tommythecat There's always that possibility. I've said before that I would prefer the novels to have 1 Ending and the Anime to feature another.
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Old 2013-06-06, 13:21   Link #2276
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Originally Posted by sleepingleo View Post
That 10 years short must (or should) clarify that in the end the siblings ARE siblings, not lovers.
Yeah, from the sounds of the spoilers, the 10-year epilogue is pretty much the only thing that can salvage this series for me now. And before anyone says "Hey, everything up to the ending was still good!", sorry but the story includes the ending. If the ending is awful, it tarnishes the story as a whole. Because it'd mean all that buildup, especially Kuroneko's Destiny Record that seemed like it was supposed to be a giant foreshadowing, would just be wasted and tossed in the trash.
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Old 2013-06-06, 13:29   Link #2277
seangel92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystic_Vegetto View Post
Spoiler:


@tommythecat There's always that possibility. I've said before that I would prefer the novels to have 1 Ending and the Anime to feature another.
Spoiler for we:
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Old 2013-06-06, 13:31   Link #2278
Wilshere
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Originally Posted by GDB View Post
Yeah, from the sounds of the spoilers, the 10-year epilogue is pretty much the only thing that can salvage this series for me now. And before anyone says "Hey, everything up to the ending was still good!", sorry but the story includes the ending. If the ending is awful, it tarnishes the story as a whole. Because it'd mean all that buildup, especially Kuroneko's Destiny Record that seemed like it was supposed to be a giant foreshadowing, would just be wasted and tossed in the trash.
I think Kuroneko's ''ideal world'' is if Kirino accepts her as being Kyousuke's girlfriend,but after him telling her that he loves Kirino she got angry and tore it up although she knew this would happen and she accepted it with the slightest of problems,anyway I dont know what exactly has been said so I think we can wait for texts and then we can get a clearer view.
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Old 2013-06-06, 13:32   Link #2279
tommythecat
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Here is my rendition of the forthcoming 10 year skip novel

"So this is what happened all those years ago...

Now I'm together with (whomever) it was a bumpy ride wasn't it guys? I'm glad we can all be friends again~!"

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Old 2013-06-06, 13:32   Link #2280
relentlessflame
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seangel92 View Post
Spoiler for we:
Spoilers
Spoiler for Volume 12
Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?


Quote:
Originally Posted by GDB View Post
Yeah, from the sounds of the spoilers, the 10-year epilogue is pretty much the only thing that can salvage this series for me now. And before anyone says "Hey, everything up to the ending was still good!", sorry but the story includes the ending. If the ending is awful, it tarnishes the story as a whole. Because it'd mean all that buildup, especially Kuroneko's Destiny Record that seemed like it was supposed to be a giant foreshadowing, would just be wasted and tossed in the trash.
The Destiny Record showed Kyousuke and Kirino being happy together with her (an upgrade from being happy just Kirino and Kyousuke), and you could say that this is what actually happened in the end... but it wasn't exactly the form she thought it would be. In other words, though she was originally going to let go of her feelings for Kirino's sake, and claimed all along that she was okay with Kirino's feelings, in the end that didn't make actually accepting the truth as easy as it seemed (obviously). The Destiny Record came true... but not exactly in the way she hoped.

(In the end, though, if you rely entirely on the logic that "the Destiny's Record should mean what Kuroneko hoped it meant", then there was no other route for the story to follow and the story is extremely telegraphed.)
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