To Aru Majutsu no Index LN - New Testament Volume 21 Discussion / Poll

[Kuroageha]

Wtf, you came to similar conclusions as I did and avoided to post about this volume until others finished to exchange some theories .

[shmaster]

That's an amazing theory.

I do have similar suspicions that Coronzon may be more than just one person.

Here is my reasoning:
In real history, Mathers had suspected Madame Horos to be Anna Sprengel.
Her full name is "Laura Horos".
But that's only one of her many names.
She also has another Laura name that's "Laura Jackson".

Then, there is the possibility that these are not just names, and every single name is a person.
And she having two Laura names may imply there is another Laura else where.

[Gundam Meister]

To re iterate on the Index = Anna Sprengel thing if remember correctly Haimura once stated that Lola/Laura character design it what Index would look like as college age girl

[Cosmic Eagle]

How do you explain those snippets of future events then? If Anna is Index I mean. Doesn't seem to be Index witnessing those

Anyway, speaking of Index, the theory that was floating around before that she's Aleister's daughter may still be alive

[shmaster]

Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle

How do you explain those snippets of future events then? If Anna is Index I mean. Doesn't seem to be Index witnessing those

Anyway, speaking of Index, the theory that was floating around before that she's Aleister's daughter may still be alive

I am pretty sure that's not a vision of future events.
But too many things has happened as the Crowley Hazard gets wiped out, and thus cannot be properly displayed.

[Cosmic Eagle]

Originally Posted by shmaster

I am pretty sure that's not a vision of future events.
But too many things has happened as the Crowley Hazard gets wiped out, and thus cannot be properly displayed.

One of those mentioned was seemingly Aleister using the Saint abilities in his fight against "Mathers" at the end. That sounds like a future event or at least some clairvoyant vision

[shmaster]

Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle

One of those mentioned was seemingly Aleister using the Saint abilities in his fight against "Mathers" at the end. That sounds like a future event or at least some clairvoyant vision

I am pretty sure that's referring to Wiscott's ability, not the ascension of Aleister.

[Cosmic Eagle]

Originally Posted by shmaster

I am pretty sure that's referring to Wiscott's ability, not the ascension of Aleister.

True that....In that case the sounds are probably just the tarot Mathers dredging up the memories of the original one.



Anyway, Madame Horos shouldn't be able to threaten Mathers if she's just a fraud. Probably that scene is Mathers finally coming face to face with Coronzon or one of its puppets

[Fortitude]

Huh.

It seems some of you theorize that Index's real identity is Anna Sprengel.

But i want to put in my own two theories about Index herself.

The first one is that she's not Anna herself but quite possibly a copy version of Anna, something the demon had created when it notices something special about her.

The second one is that she might be a homunculus. A very successful and very powerful one i might add, especially after having over a 100,000 grimoires jamming into her head. I wouldn't be surprise that it took thousands of dead homunculus to be sacrifice just to get one right.

[Fortitude]

You know after all these years of following the series, i don't think we can actually trust anyone who claims they know Imagine Breaker better than anyone else.

Fiamma and Terra claims they know its true identity as the key to achieve of surpassing god, Ollerus believes it is a living symbol of hope, Othinus thinks it might sends her back to her "true" world, the magic gods proclaim that its because of their will and lastly Aleister believes that... you know what i'm not gonna finish it but the point is none of them knew what Imagine Breaker really is due to their limited knowledge from their own hypothesis, theories, inside the box thinking and damnable arrogance.

Yes even Ollerus is arrogant in his view of Imagine Breaker but he's more subtle about it.

The magic gods are also at fault despite being "gods" they still stuck with human concept than true omnipotence. Hence the reason why i never bother to believe in their bullshit. Maybe we should just called them by their true name: False Gods of Humanity.

In fact none of them even bother to acknowledge of a possible outside source beyond their reach. Guess their really THAT desperate in reaching for their personal goal.

This all takes me back to the first volume of Index where Touma reveals to Kaori and Styil the truth about Index's memory problem and how they were lied from the beginning when they first assign to watch over her.

It took me to read the first volume to realize not to fully believe in the so called Knowledge and Truth from almost any Index characters Touma have met over the course of his journey. Its what led to a certain backstabber to go after the wrong enemy(NT7) or how index's problems were a hoax(1st volume), or how Coronzon told Aleister about possessing his daughter.

This what made me love the series. You can't tell if anyone the heroes had met is telling the truth.

[entei08]

It's intriguing that Touma calls Coronzon 'a created demon, inside and out'. Would this imply Coronzon was also created by someone much like Qliphoth Puzzle was? Could it be Madame Horos who also goes by several aliases involving the name Laura? It could be part of why Mathers hates her so much. But he has no problem using something she created, it's not completely out of character for such a conflicted person, much like Aleister using the bible even though he hates Christianity.

Though in NT 19 Coronzon speaks to Aiwass like they go way back, so I'm not so sure that she's only been around for a hundred years. Though we don't know how Aiwass came to be either.

Of course, Touma could just be calling Coronzon out as a fraud, someone who makes up lies.

[dniv]

Originally Posted by shmaster

That's an amazing theory.

I do have similar suspicions that Coronzon may be more than just one person.

Here is my reasoning:
In real history, Mathers had suspected Madame Horos to be Anna Sprengel.
Her full name is "Laura Horos".
But that's only one of her many names.
She also has another Laura name that's "Laura Jackson".

Then, there is the possibility that these are not just names, and every single name is a person.
And she having two Laura names may imply there is another Laura else where.

I agree with you. That was truly an amazing theory. It's so possible. I'm so mad I didn't take the time to come up with that analysis on my own. Sigh. It seems so right!!! I really want that to be true.

Also, it makes sense though. After we think about everything that has changed now that we reflect on what's happened in this volume. Clearly, since someone we thought existed didn't exist, that means ... her origins are more suspicious.

[DragonXX]

Originally Posted by entei08

It's intriguing that Touma calls Coronzon 'a created demon, inside and out'. Would this imply Coronzon was also created by someone much like Qliphoth Puzzle was? Could it be Madame Horos who also goes by several aliases involving the name Laura? It could be part of why Mathers hates her so much. But he has no problem using something she created, it's not completely out of character for such a conflicted person, much like Aleister using the bible even though he hates Christianity.

Though in NT 19 Coronzon speaks to Aiwass like they go way back, so I'm not so sure that she's only been around for a hundred years. Though we don't know how Aiwass came to be either.

Of course, Touma could just be calling Coronzon out as a fraud, someone who makes up lies.

Well if you know some stuff about Thelema you would know that on the Qliphoth there are 4 demons higher then Coronzon on the tree alone and the 3 original forms of evil name Qemetial, Belial, and Othiel in Thelema that are above the Qliphoth as a whole. Coronzon bring up two of the higher demon on the Qiphoth at the end of the volume, when she said she better then the two because she had a body/host and they don't.

As for Index, I believe she was a child who was given birth by Coronzon's body/host. It would explain why Index alone had the power to remember over 103 000 grimoires. Just like Lilith got a special ability because of Aiwass possessing her mom well she was pregnant. It would made sense that if Coronzon's body/host was possess by Coronzon well being pregnant that child would get some kind of special ability too.

[rladls2121]

Just saying, one of the best scenes in this Volume is Accelerator doing "Tch" in front of Touma, it took this far for him to learn that Touma is well, an "idiot".

I skipped so many parts in many Volumes.
Stories about Gremlin, true Gremlin and Kamisato Kakeru made me really sleepy.
At least I found Kihara Noukan and Yuuitsu are interesting.

I definitely don't want to read about Kakeru and its faction any more than about Magic Gods though.

In the end, does this mean if Aleister is gone, then I wonder who will be the new ruler of Academy City, Kiharas?

[Tenzen12]

There should be still some board chairmans left, so unless some kind of coup happens this time around, it should be them.

[Chosen_Hero]

Originally Posted by rladls2121

Just saying, one of the best scenes in this Volume is Accelerator doing "Tch" in front of Touma, it took this far for him to learn that Touma is well, an "idiot".

I skipped so many parts in many Volumes.
Stories about Gremlin, true Gremlin and Kamisato Kakeru made me really sleepy.
At least I found Kihara Noukan and Yuuitsu are interesting.

I definitely don't want to read about Kakeru and its faction any more than about Magic Gods though.

In the end, does this mean if Aleister is gone, then I wonder who will be the new ruler of Academy City, Kiharas?

You have to take into account that Accelerator and Aleister (and the Kiharas) are the smartest people in AC bar none. Touma is smart by the outside worlds standard and average by AC standards, if he wasn't smart to some extent he wouldn't have pulled off half of the shit he has done up until now.

[Endscape]

Touma's smart, the problem is he has no intellectual curiosity.

He's been dealing with so much magic stuff that he's more experienced than the average magician, he lives with two magic experts and he barely has any clue about how magic works and no interest in learning more.

Accel's known about magic for a minute by comparison and he's already thinking critically about it.

[Kuroageha]

Smart, clever and intelligent have their differences after all.

[mark1246]

hey @everyone, actually important question

back in OT1 Komoe sensei said we can have memory for thousand of years or something like that?

NT9, touma was there for million of phases ( if we assume each phase was from 1hr-a few days, which can translated to 1 million day = 2740 years ) wouldn't his memory be overloaded at that point? or should we account some Magic nonsense interfering with rules of logic? thanks

[tsunade666]

Originally Posted by mark1246

hey @everyone, actually important question

back in OT1 Komoe sensei said we can have memory for thousand of years or something like that?

NT9, touma was there for million of phases ( if we assume each phase was from 1hr-a few days, which can translated to 1 million day = 2740 years ) wouldn't his memory be overloaded at that point? or should we account some Magic nonsense interfering with rules of logic? thanks

Brain if used right or with no limits. Is basically a super computer. There memory is there, the problem is how to get it.