Xbox One

[kyp275]

http://penny-arcade.com/report/artic...t-could-be-the

http://penny-arcade.com/report/artic...d-i-doubt-youl

And it begins, the gaming media will now tell us the mistake of our ways, that it is actually a great thing that there is a used game fee, the secondary market should be destroyed, and we never should have been allowed to actually own the games we bought

un-fucking-believable.

[Destined_Fate]

Yeah... I had a laugh about "Steam-like" sales or the such from Microsoft, EA, and the such when we know that will never happen even if they do kill Used Game Sales from places like Gamestop.

[Vajra]

I am pretty much ready to just hand over my wallet to Sony right now

[Dextro]

Originally Posted by 0utf0xZer0

I'm well aware that console CPUs tend to be slower than contemporary desktops - Xbox one (I mean, original Xbox) was the same way, and I always expected the performance to be weak given that the CPU is based on jaguar cores. It's just that they could have used a regular mobile CPU as the basis for the unit. Why strap four netbook class CPUs that don't scale well to high clocks together?

As for why I'm comparing it to desktop CPUs... well, I've had this theory a desktop user with one of AMD's newer (ie. highly clocked) octo-core desktop ships probably won't need to upgrade their CPU for this entire generation. I wanted to see what the difference would be so I could tell if I appear to be on the mark.

I wouldn't be so quick to judge the Jaguar cores as "netbook class". AMD doesn't have a dedicated netbook architecture like Intel does, they just applied some tweaks to one of their regular architectures to save power and improve efficiency. They're still good full CPUs, they just get completely destroyed by what Intel is able to do with larger budgets and, most important of all, a full generation advantage in building process (Intel has for years managed to stay one step ahead of everyone else in the chip making game. While TSMC, for instance, was working out the kinks with 44nm Intel was already working on 32nm. That gives them a major boost in sheer efficiency).

Atom, btw, started as a reworking of an old Pentium. I don't quite recall if it was the Pentium 3 or the Pentium Pro but, considering the original Atom lacked plenty of features, I believe it might just have been the latter. Either way, it was old tech even when it was new while the Jaguar isn't.

Using Jaguar cores is actually a better future-proof option than what MS did with the original XBox. Back then Intel used the already old Pentium III architecture (I think) while now they're using a brand new architecture that AMD itself plans to sell latter this year.

Also: with 8 cores performing on par with most current PC CPUs performance is more very likely than good enough for AI and Pathfinding. Memory and it's bandwidth both to the CPU and the GPU, on the other hand, are much more critical factors imho and on that Sony made a gamble that will probably pay off tremendously. They fixed their major issue with the PS3 by making all RAM equally fast and accessible to both the CPU and GPU (note: the PS3 had a 50/50 hard split of it's 512mb or RAM between the CPU and GPU) while Microsoft went for what it already had in the 360 and used normal memory with a very fast cache to help overcome that particular bottleneck (note: the 360 had 512mb shared between the CPU and GPU combined with 32mb of very fast on-die ram that served as some sort of cache and the One seems to have a similar architecture).

Add to that the fact that the PS3 has what appears to be an equal part for the GPU but with more processing units I think we can expect the PS4 to have a slight edge over the XB1 (and I'm being conservative here. I honestly believe that the PS4 may be clearly superior graphics-wise this time round).

[0utf0xZer0]

Originally Posted by Dextro

I wouldn't be so quick to judge the Jaguar cores as "netbook class". AMD doesn't have a dedicated netbook architecture like Intel does, they just applied some tweaks to one of their regular architectures to save power and improve efficiency.

My Thinkpad X120E is powered by a 1.6ghz dual core Bobcat so I know Bobcat/Jaguar is much faster than Atom. It's still meant for cheap, inexpensive laptops (I consider my X120E halfway between a netbook and a "full" laptop, though I do everything with it I did with the latter) and thoroughly trounced by other modern laptop CPUs though. It's mainly the choice of an architecture that's know not to scale well above maybe 2ghz (and probably won't even hit that in the XBone/PS4) that surprises me.

Realistically, I think the Core 2 Quad/Phenom II X4 level performance I calculated for properly threaded workloads is probably "enough" for a console.

[Tong]

This better mean better PC ports.
Ports were SO bad in the past gen (looking at you GTA 4).

[Dirty_Harry]

And makes life easier for hackers in emulation

[Triple_R]

I haven't been a serious gamer in some time, but what I recently heard about the Xbox One is so outrageous that I felt compelled to comment on it.

People buy and sell used vehicles all the time.

People buy and sell used furniture all the time.

People buy and sell old pro sports cards all the time.

People buy and sell old comic books all the time.

People buy and sell old books all the time.

Heck, people even buy and sell other people's clothes sometimes.

I don't recall Ford, Lazyboy, Upperdeck, Marvel, Kadokawa, or Gap caring a whole lot about it though. They recognize that this is perfectly normal, legal, and legitimate human behavior.


So where the hell does the video game industry (or at least Microsoft) get off thinking that people shouldn't be able to sell used video games? What makes a video game any more important than a vehicle, or a piece of furniture?

And I guess this means that Microsoft wants to throw renting games completely out the window. So people can lease cars, and rent movies, but apparently video games are so sacrosanct that it's buy outright or go home.


Some here think that the general public is going to go along with this? The general public is going to think that this is flatout ridiculous, because no other industry behaves this way.

The big question is if Sony follows Microsoft's horrible customer-hating approach here. If Sony doesn't, then I think a lot of Xbox buyers switch over the to the next generation Playstation. If Sony does follow Microsoft's approach, then serious console gamers are going to have a very hard decision to make.

[T-6000]

Originally Posted by kyp275

http://penny-arcade.com/report/artic...t-could-be-the

http://penny-arcade.com/report/artic...d-i-doubt-youl

And it begins, the gaming media will now tell us the mistake of our ways, that it is actually a great thing that there is a used game fee, the secondary market should be destroyed, and we never should have been allowed to actually own the games we bought

un-fucking-believable.

Unless Microsoft focuses on digital distribution more than traditional physical sales, I don't think the console market prices (especially for the XBox One) will change. We see more frequent sales on Steam and quicker price drops down the road because of the focus on digital distribution. Another thing to consider is that when Console gamers sold off their games they were able to use the funds to buy an extra game or two. Now with this DRM incorporated into XBox One, people will be buying less frequently and only buying the absolute best games (or ones that interest them the most). And yet another thing to consider is that if the PS4 isn't restricting the second hand sale in any way more people could flock to the PS4. Sony could take advantage of this by releasing promotional sources (such as Magazine ads and even TV ads) that rip on Microsoft for restricting the second hand market. But we'll have to see where Sony takes things from here.

And also, not to mention, if people can't try out games before they buy them (and since demos are very rare nowadays) we could see a rise in piracy. Some people have pirated a game in order to try them out, and I'll admit I have pirated a couple of games this past year to try them out. I was on the fence on purchasing them but couldn't try them out since there was no game demo available.

Originally Posted by Tong

This better mean better PC ports.
Ports were SO bad in the past gen (looking at you GTA 4).

I really hope so, since console ports to PC throughout most of this generation have been mediocre at best. Well, most of them. Valve were one of the few developers that actually put effort into PC ports. But as I have posted a few times, I think we PC Gamers are going to be given the cold shoulder once again, and it may be worse than during this console generation.

http://www.bluesnews.com/s/141910/ms...rd-to-continue

[shadow1296]

i have been hearing some rumors that there are some game developers trying to back out of their contracts with microsoft after the announcement of the xbox one, any one know if this is true or just baseless rumors

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Some here think that the general public is going to go along with this?

Of course they will, because they don't know or care about this. All they know is that their screaming 12-year-olds want to play the next Call of Duty.

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

General public in the US maybe, everybody else in the world aren't going to benefit from all that tv-television-tv stuff...

Well yeah, they don't care about the non-domestic audience. That much is obvious.

[Kirito]

Spoiler for Saving Space:

Originally Posted by Triple_R

I haven't been a serious gamer in some time, but what I recently heard about the Xbox One is so outrageous that I felt compelled to comment on it.

People buy and sell used vehicles all the time.

People buy and sell used furniture all the time.

People buy and sell old pro sports cards all the time.

People buy and sell old comic books all the time.

People buy and sell old books all the time.

Heck, people even buy and sell other people's clothes sometimes.

I don't recall Ford, Lazyboy, Upperdeck, Marvel, Kadokawa, or Gap caring a whole lot about it though. They recognize that this is perfectly normal, legal, and legitimate human behavior.


So where the hell does the video game industry (or at least Microsoft) get off thinking that people shouldn't be able to sell used video games? What makes a video game any more important than a vehicle, or a piece of furniture?

And I guess this means that Microsoft wants to throw renting games completely out the window. So people can lease cars, and rent movies, but apparently video games are so sacrosanct that it's buy outright or go home.


Some here think that the general public is going to go along with this? The general public is going to think that this is flatout ridiculous, because no other industry behaves this way.

The big question is if Sony follows Microsoft's horrible customer-hating approach here. If Sony doesn't, then I think a lot of Xbox buyers switch over the to the next generation Playstation. If Sony does follow Microsoft's approach, then serious console gamers are going to have a very hard decision to make.

You'd be surprised how much of a negative backlash the Xbox One is receiving in Japan right now. Even they admitted that the console itself is a lost cause and they even cleverly mocked the features of said system, add the quotes of employee's and company statements, as well. Granted we don't know much about the other news or features that Sony has in store for E3 and for the gamers for that matter. But there's so much support for the PS4 from their home court right now for it to end up like the Xbox One.

In the end it's up to Sony to prove that the 8th gen has a future. Regardless how a company acts or present their products, there will always be supporters ready to defend them needlessly positively or negatively.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

Of course they will, because they don't know or care about this. All they know is that their screaming 12-year-olds want to play the next Call of Duty.

You really think that the primary market for video games is kids? That hasn't been the case for quite some time now.

When adults buy something brand new for themselves, they expect to be able to sell it one day as an used product. Most adults will do at least a little bit of research before making a major electronics purchase for themselves (and given the price of most modern console systems, it's not a minor electronics purchase any more).

If Microsoft thinks the general public will save them from a hardcore gamer backlash, then I think they are quite mistaken.

Originally Posted by Clarami

In the end it's up to Sony to prove that the 8th gen has a future. Regardless how a company acts or present their products, there will always be supporters ready to defend them needlessly positively or negatively.

I agree.

Sony simply has to be moderately competent and actually customer-friendly. That's it. If it does just that much, it already has both Nintendo and Microsoft beat for the 8th gen.

[FlareKnight]

Originally Posted by kyp275

http://penny-arcade.com/report/artic...t-could-be-the

http://penny-arcade.com/report/artic...d-i-doubt-youl

And it begins, the gaming media will now tell us the mistake of our ways, that it is actually a great thing that there is a used game fee, the secondary market should be destroyed, and we never should have been allowed to actually own the games we bought

un-fucking-believable.

Not that surprised. Reminds me back to the ME3 ending chaos. People had issues and the gaming media just kept talking about how stupid and wrong gamers were. They know where the money is coming from and will only pretend to give a damn about the consumer long as it lines up with the corporations.

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Sony simply has to be moderately competent and actually customer-friendly. That's it. If it does just that much, it already has both Nintendo and Microsoft beat for the 8th gen.

As I've said- Sony would have this in the bag already so long at the barest of minimum, they don't do anything to fuck up the hype train they have going.

They seriously don't need to do anymore that Microsoft hasn't already done to themselves- You have to be Capcom level retarded to fuck this up right now if you can't clearly see the backlash that your competitor is having.


EDIT:


Microsoft Promises More Japanese Support For Xbox One At E3

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

You really think that the primary market for video games is kids?

For military shooters? Hell yes.
The reason they're selling the Xbone as a multimedia device is so that other members of the household have a reason to use it as well, thus justifying its price.
Most adults still consider video games to be toys and thus do not play them.

[Kirito]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

EDIT:
Microsoft Promises More Japanese Support For Xbox One At E3

Do they really think that the Japanese market will take this seriously, after it's painfully clear to them that the system itself is a lost cause. Just another means to add more salt to the wounds.

Well as I said Dwarven Vow#5: The more you add, the worse it gets!

[T-6000]

IGN conducted a poll about people's impressions with the XBox One announcement, and it seems like the vast majority are utterly disappointed with the reveal.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/05/...box-one-reveal

About 47.36% thought that the reveal was disappointing, 28.87% thought it was a disaster, 17.34% felt that it was a "solid" presentation, and a mere 6.42% thought it was fantastic. Game Politics have conducted their own poll, but it'll be awhile before they release the results of the poll.

Originally Posted by Clarami

Do they really think that the Japanese market will this seriously, after it's painfully clear to them that the system itself is a lost cause. Just another means to add more salt to the wounds.

Well as I said Dwarven Vow#5: The more you add, the worse it gets!

That looks to me as desperate backpedaling and making "Last Minute Adjustments" in the hopes that they'll attract more of a Japanese audience. Microsoft has big shoes to fill if they hope to attract an audience in the U.S. *AND* Japan, since from what I have seem of the PS4 it looks to satisfy both Japanese and American audiences.

[blakstealth]

Let's see how the Japanese feel about Xbox One.

Spoiler:

[Kirito]

Dude! You nearly made me choke on my orange juice from laughing so hard.

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