Needless

[Kefit]

Originally Posted by Soji

Spoiler for spoiler:

Wait.. you compare two powerful and experts Needless like Saten and Blade to Cruz
Ok ,Cruz is become more resistant and brave..but you cant but expect he get results like Saten or Blade. for me in this chapter he done well ...especially if you compares as how he was has how his now, he even encased DemonToria's hit

Spoiler:

My complaint has nothing to do with Cruz's capabilities, or lack there-of, to fight the Toria monster. The problem is that the chapter started with him terrified and unable to fight back against he monster attacking him, and it ended with him terrified and unable to fight back against the monsters attacking him. Sure, there's more monsters now, but who really cares about that? What real effect does it have on the current situation?

If Cruz had been knocked out or injured, that would have been development. If he had conceived some plan to fight back or escape, even if the reader was not privy to the plan until next chapter, that would have been development. If Saten had broken through the bars and rescued him, that would have been development. Instead we get ranting from Mengroze, and Cruz ends the chapter in the same situation as it started.

re Avvesione: Strom is almost certainly on good terms with Simeon in the real world, seeing as he assisted Hatfield in making the ice wall.

[Homura7]

Spoiler for 85:

If Cruz was still human he would have died instantly after encasing Demon Toria's hit... but we all know he left his humanity long ago.

I absolutely love the color spread, it transmits a feeling of peace and sadness together

re Kefit: Precisely the situation is a bit different at the end of the chapter. From trapped but still capable to avoid, to trapped and totally bound and prey of Mengroze's experimental subjects. That's what you call a cliffanger that puts yourself at the edge of your seat.

[Avvesione]

Originally Posted by Soji

Spoiler for spoiler:

I understand what you mean...In fact, as I mentioned in a post the die of blade o Eve in this memory world would be a shock to cruz but at the same time something that make him grow .
About AnN ,I would not mind if she appears ... especially if star starts to appears in the real wordl as well .
Imagine if Blade and the others see Cruz's talk alone and instead he talk to AnN, would be a comedy scene

Spoiler:

You know, I realized something when I read your post. ANn appeared before Cruz in the memory world and gave him that light to go through the black hole. Saten wasn't able to see ANn there.

Mio was able to see the 'gentle hand of light' save Cruz during the PF Blast. IF ANn is the one who saved Cruz during the PF Blast, why was Mio able to see ANn or ANn's hand, especially if Saten was not able to see it in the memory world?

Originally Posted by Kefit

Spoiler:

My complaint has nothing to do with Cruz's capabilities, or lack there-of, to fight the Toria monster. The problem is that the chapter started with him terrified and unable to fight back against he monster attacking him, and it ended with him terrified and unable to fight back against the monsters attacking him. Sure, there's more monsters now, but who really cares about that? What real effect does it have on the current situation?

If Cruz had been knocked out or injured, that would have been development. If he had conceived some plan to fight back or escape, even if the reader was not privy to the plan until next chapter, that would have been development. If Saten had broken through the bars and rescued him, that would have been development. Instead we get ranting from Mengroze, and Cruz ends the chapter in the same situation as it started.

Spoiler:

I know you're not happy with Mengroze taking up most of the chapter talking about his ideals but the chapter was split evenly between Cruz (14 pages) and Blade/Saten (15 pages). Most of those pages were Cruz dodging attacks and talking to Mengroze. At least now he can't dodge anymore... Hopefully 86 has more of what you want to see.

Originally Posted by _kurusu_

Spoiler for 85:

If Cruz was still human he would have died instantly after encasing Demon Toria's hit... but we all know he left his humanity long ago.

Spoiler:

I'm confused what you mean by that. He was able to survive being tormented by Kafka, Mio, and Setsuna before he was revived by Eve. I do agree with you that Cruz is more than human at this point. I'm just not sure to what degree.

[Soji]

Originally Posted by Avvesione

Spoiler:

You know, I realized something when I read your post. ANn appeared before Cruz in the memory world and gave him that light to go through the black hole. Saten wasn't able to see ANn there.

Mio was able to see the 'gentle hand of light' save Cruz during the PF Blast. IF ANn is the one who saved Cruz during the PF Blast, why was Mio able to see ANn or ANn's hand, especially if Saten was not able to see it in the memory world?

Spoiler for Spoiler:

this is something that I wondered myself , the only option I have is to the effect of Pfzero, after all it was a minibigbang and something like this has a great energy, and thas energy has probably made AnN visible for a short period time (if wee believe that she was the one to save him at that time)
Probably Mio was lucky to see this Hand of light or AnN herself to choose to be seen with the hope that Mio remain with Cruz

Spoiler:

I'm confused what you mean by that. He was able to survive being tormented by Kafka, Mio, and Setsuna before he was revived by Eve. I do agree with you that Cruz is more than human at this point. I'm just not sure to what degree.

Spoiler for Spoiler:

True, but they did not go immediately with the intention to kill, even Kafka took is sweet time with Cruz.
While demonToria has not retained herself

[Magin]

*facepalm, headesk, rinse and repeat*

now that I got that out of the way...

Spoiler for 85:

Okay, I have to give props to the fact of how powerful Strom is, and how insane Mengroze is... sadly, this is seinen, otherwise I would know for sure that next chapter they'd both get a beatdown. Unfortunately, even though this showed all that, I can't help but feel disappointed by the fact that Cruz is still in a situation where he's screwed. Admittedly, our predictions always get blown out of the water, but come on... it felt like Cruz had gone back to pre-Third Shelter personality. Personally, I'm hoping that not only does Cruz's power awaken, but that it also allows him to go temporary Jesus/God mode, and therefore scare the shit out of Mengroze... and hopefully deal with Strom along the way

[Soji]

^

Spoiler for Spoiler:

Wait, why did you think or better fell like Cruz is come back to pre-Third Shelter personality., I do not think that the current Cruz he back again has that personality. And as Kurusu said a few posts before, the situation is not exactly like the previous chapter is much worse now since Cruz is blocked by the other Mengroze's experiments and he cant avoid demon toria attacks anymore.

[Magin]

Spoiler for response:

I will admit that Cruz is in a situation that's 1000000x more desperate than anything else he's ever been in, since usually he has someone to back him up... maybe the full translation will help me to better understand it, but from what I'm seeing so far, it looks like he's in panic mode and running around without an inch of hope, unable to even try to give a thought towards how the hell he's going to get out of it (then again, I suppose he hasn't exactly had the chance to get that kind of thought...)

[Soji]

Originally Posted by Magin

Spoiler for response:

I will admit that Cruz is in a situation that's 1000000x more desperate than anything else he's ever been in, since usually he has someone to back him up... maybe the full translation will help me to better understand it, but from what I'm seeing so far, it looks like he's in panic mode and running around without an inch of hope, unable to even try to give a thought towards how the hell he's going to get out of it (then again, I suppose he hasn't exactly had the chance to get that kind of thought...)

Spoiler for Spoiler:

If he was totally in panic to listen ,Cruz would never understand what Mengroze say.
But on the summary made by js06

He explains that that means god must have more heads, arms, and legs than humans. (How does that make any sense?) He says that this is what a perfect being should be like. Cruz thinks he's crazy. (Gee, I wonder why?)

would say that the thought of Cruz showing that reasons (where has the time to do so)
but I would say that this sentence of your

(then again, I suppose he hasn't exactly had the chance to get that kind of thought...)

accurately summarizes the current problem of Cruz and why he not try to think of a solution.
And as we know it is the first time is alone without someone to support him while he thought a solution or the type of the fragment of the enemy.

[Ynot]

Spoiler for needless:

Now that I think about it, Yamada has been in this situation before. Near the end of the bloody rain arc, he couldn't expect his friends to help him, his movements were restricted while his enemy(Hatfield) was in front of him. Now that might not have been as scary as having a changed Toria in front of you, but in the long run the result would still have been the same. Back then he even managed to fight back a little when Hatfield had a lapse in concentration.

It will be interesting to see how closely the new situation will follow the old one, if at all.

Maybe Toria's arm will get stuck between the bars when she attacks Yamada in his current position, giving him time to think of something.

[Soji]

^

Spoiler for spoiler:

Now that you mentioned, your right...maybe if we're lucky we find out what would happen if Blade would not come to the rescue.

[Avvesione]

^

Spoiler:

The main difference between this situation and the last one was the purpose of the fight. Cruz went out to fight Hatfield to protect Kana. Here, Cruz thought he was going to help Mengroze with his research. Cruz didn't know he was going to be locked in a room with a monster. Both ended up as the same situation where Cruz was helpless and overpowered.

But looking back at Bloody Rain, Cruz knew he was going to fight and could mentally prepare himself before fighting Hatfield and saving Kana. Here, we don't see Cruz protecting anymore or even trying to fight. I think if Cruz can find a purpose (such as remembering he's doing this to save Eve) then he'll pull through. At least that's how I view this situation.

[Soji]

^

Spoiler for spoiler:

You're right although he knew he have no chance, Cruz attack Hatfield to protect Kana.
although on page 13 ch 71 Cruz had these thoughts..*I prepared traps.....I thought up means of escape.....I tried so hard....But nothing worked* *I just can't....stand up to a Needless*
And another thing for the first time Cruz get angry a what Hatfield said*When you realized your beloved sister was one of Simeon's top officers That she was a Needless so powerful she could kill you with a mere touch
While you yourself were powerless.....that must have filled you with despair*
Cruz while trying to hit him with a punch*Shut Up!*(ch 57 page 23)
But page 26 same ch makes you feel sad for him especially with what he thinks..Cruz*Damnit....If only I had an ability....If only I had power...*
I hope that this time his desire become true is the perfect time.

[Avvesione]

Anyone have any idea how Blade will get out of this one? So far the only ones who can melt Strom's ice are Saten and Aruka. Aruka isn't around and Saten has both his arms encased in ice.

I think Blade's in a worse situation than Cruz.

[shadowii]

Originally Posted by Avvesione

Anyone have any idea how Blade will get out of this one? So far the only ones who can melt Strom's ice are Saten and Aruka. Aruka isn't around and Saten has both his arms encased in ice.

I think Blade's in a worse situation than Cruz.

having read everyones feelings on this i must say I'm not impressed about the the situation blade is in

Okay guys am i the only one who seems to remember that this blade has doppleganger and seems to be able to use it better than eve ever did (so even being shattered apart wouldnt necessairly be fatal to him)

plus this is needless, people recover from fatal injuries all the time in one chapter or so (remember what happened to Mio when she grabbed hatfield , three chapters later oh she's fine)

Also I am actually very interested in mengrozes madness because
A) his experiments give some horror to this series and
B) one wonders why Aruka took Cruz to him

[Lavans]

What chapter was Toria first seen in? I think it was like...ch 77, but I don't recall exactly when.

[Soji]

Originally Posted by Lavans

What chapter was Toria first seen in? I think it was like...ch 77, but I don't recall exactly when.

Is ch 79 ....aniway

Spoiler for spoiler:

to think of it the last chapter led the third most linked characters(now a least) in a near-death situation .... I mean Eve is a brain whit no much time left to her, Blade is frozen in a tree of ice and seems to be totally hibernating and Yamada is blocked by various Mengroze's experiments with DemonToria near ready to strike him down.
if the situation is not resolved during the next chapter, we risk to losing The three most important characters at once .

B) one wonders why Aruka took Cruz to him

and this is one of the points that gives us a lot of questions Unanswered,especially after what we saw about Mengroze is totally crazy

[Avvesione]

Thanks Soji for reminding me of Chapter 79. There was something in that chapter that I forgot to post about.

Strom seems to be hearing a lot about miracles (pg 22). However, that's the only time it's been brought up in the arc. Wonder what kind of miracles they're talking about...

[Soji]

^I remember this thing...well theoretically a miracle is already happened I speak of the dark sea
or whatever name you want to give to that thing.
I mean for the inhabitants of the memory world...... they certainly would call this event a miracle ,but Saten himself seemed surprised by this thing like as if Cruz did something impossible.

Spoiler for Spoiler:

think about it the current situation calls a miracle to happen...maybe if we're lucky we get some response to what they mean by miracle.

[Avvesione]

Originally Posted by Soji

^I remember this thing...well theoretically a miracle is already happened I speak of the dark sea
or whatever name you want to give to that thing.
I mean for the inhabitants of the memory world they certainly would call a miracle but Saten himself seemed surprised by this thing like as if Cruz did something impossible.

Spoiler for Spoiler:

think about it the current situation calls a miracle to happen...maybe if we're lucky we get some response to what they mean by miracle.

That was the first thing to come to my mind when thinking about the word miracle. However, Cruz parted the dark sea after that whole conversation took place. That'd mean there are miracles happening since before Blade/Cruz/Saten confronted Kafka.

Also, since they're talking about miracles in a life/death situation, I'm going to guess that the miracles happening are people being rescued on the brink of death.

I have a feeling ANn would be behind these miracles. If that's the case, then that'd mean she's connected to other people and not just Cruz.

[Soji]

^I undestand what you mean by that..but there something that bother me.
from what Strom and Toria's Friend said they gave me the idea that they belivede in this miracle but this miracles does not have happened lately.(or at least thas is what I understood from that speech).
but lately I wonder if the fragment of memory that pierced Yamada has been distorted by Yamada's memories as well beyond what Saten already explained .
the more I think most I find odd that Cruz could use his memories to separate the dark sea.