Shakugan no Shana II - Episode 13 Discussion / Poll

[teachopvutru]

Well... not to sound like oversimplify what you are trying to tell but from what I gather, you basically are saying that the preview from last episode for this one reveals too much; and despite the goodness it delivers (well, to many, although not to you, apparently), the fight lacks suspense and momentum. Or maybe, what you are referring is that the fight lacks "something" to make you think "what happen next?"

I still have yet to watch this episode... damn Internet connection always disconnect <.<

[Sterling01]

Originally Posted by ChrissieXD

Spoiler for Fight 13:

Pheles shows up
*Fuzetsu*
Margery starts to go beserk
Pheles tries to steal Reiju Maigo, Shana thwarts her
Margery fights Wilhelmenia
Margery kills Tanaka's girlfriend
Margery wraps everyone up

Actually it was something like this

Spoiler for Fight 13:

Pheles shows up
Yuji Freaks out/loses control of his powers
*Fuzetsu*
The Sliver flame shows up
Margery starts to go beserk
Yuji freaks out some more
Pheles tries to steal Reiju Maigo, beats Shana up
Pheles starts to weaken
Shana thwarts her
Margery fights Wilhelmenia
Margery kills Tanaka's girlfriend
Tanaka opens his eyes for the first time
Margery tries to kill Yuji
Pheles kinda protects him
Wilhelmenia and Shana knockout Pheles and Margery
Everyone finds out Yuji's Flame color is Sliver
Tanaka whines to Margery
Margery calms down
Pheles Tells Margery that something is up with the Reiju Maigo
Margery wraps everyone up
*End Fuzetsu*

[Kristen]

Originally Posted by Sterling01

Actually it was something like this

Spoiler for Fight 13:

Pheles shows up
Yuji Freaks out/loses control of his powers
*Fuzetsu*/The Sliver flame shows up
Margery starts to go beserk
Pheles tries to steal Reiju Maigo, beats Shana up
Pheles starts to weaken/Shana thwarts her
Margery fights Wilhelmenia
Margery kills Tanaka's girlfriend
Tanaka opens his eyes for the first time
Margery tries to kill Yuji/Pheles kinda protects him
Wilhelmenia and Shana knockout Pheles and Margery

Cut out everything after the knockout. That's not part of the fight material, it's the post-fight material. Maybe it's plot for the episode, but I'm arguing that the fight had not plot. I also combined the silver flame with the Fuzetsu, as that is the same plot event. I also combined the weakening/thwarting, as that is also the same plot event. I'm also 50/50 on whether the killing of the girlfriend and Tanaka's opening of the eyes is the same event or not.
Regardless, combining details into the events they were a part of, it's a much shorter list.

[Sterling01]

I really don't care, to tell you the truth. I really liked the fight but I'm with you on the fact that most of the plot came after the fight

[lua thien]

Looks like a flaw was made in the episode. Satou and Eita didn't have blue insignias around them while in the Fuzetsu.

[Tokkan]

Originally Posted by lua thien

Looks like a flaw was made in the episode. Satou and Eita didn't have blue insignias around them while in the Fuzetsu.

I never really cared for that, it was ugly. If they can move, they can move, they don't need something like that to distinguish them apart from the people who move because of hougus (Yuji, Yoshida) and the people whom are Crimson World-related.

[Master Chibi]

Here let me simplify that list for you guys even more

1. Tornado
2. No tornado.
3. Symmetrical docking.

[Aquifina]

I've been persuaded by this thread that I was overly hard on the episode. The long lay-off raised expectations too high for me; I probably need to find the time to properly see it again to appreciate it.

[The Real Nemo]

Originally Posted by ChrissieXD

Cut out everything after the knockout. That's not part of the fight material, it's the post-fight material. Maybe it's plot for the episode, but I'm arguing that the fight had not plot. I also combined the silver flame with the Fuzetsu, as that is the same plot event. I also combined the weakening/thwarting, as that is also the same plot event. I'm also 50/50 on whether the killing of the girlfriend and Tanaka's opening of the eyes is the same event or not.
Regardless, combining details into the events they were a part of, it's a much shorter list.

Sometimes a fight can be just a fight, like was pointed out neither Pheles or Marjory were really thinking about strategy at the time.

[Xhokhusmak]

I'm trying my best not to say "owned" but...

Spoiler:

this is the most gruesome death of the entire series.

[Keroko]

Originally Posted by ChrissieXD

Actually, the anime is the first I've ever seen of Shana.

Whoops, sorry for the assumption then.

Originally Posted by ChrissieXD

That last passage reminded me of Haruhi. Heh.

Originally Posted by ChrissieXD

But in all seriousness, I guess everything is plot, and I'm just arguing that this is very hollow and boring plot. To me, it was just reiterating everything we already knew, save that something is wrong with the Reiju Maigu.

Okay, I can hardly argue whether you found the plot boring or not. Having you aknowledge that there is plot is enough 'victory' for me.

Originally Posted by ChrissieXD

Spoiler for Twins arc:

*Fuzetsu*
Shana runs to find the twins
Blutsaguer, and the explanation of what it is
Shana realizes the flower is causing the Fuzetsu (thingy...)
Shana tries to destroy the flower
Shana is caught
Yuji and Margery destroy the torches
Shana's sword is taken
Shana breaks free of the trap
Shana destroys one of the twins
Yuji climbs the bridge
Margery meets metamorphosis, they fight
Metamorphosis discovers the Reiju Maigu in Yuji
Shana destroys the other twin
Metamorphosis runs away
*End Fuzetsu*

Granted, I misplaced some things and got some little details wrong, since I haven't seen that in a while. But, here is the plot of this last fight:

Spoiler for Fight 13:

Pheles shows up
*Fuzetsu*
Margery starts to go beserk
Pheles tries to steal Reiju Maigo, Shana thwarts her
Margery fights Wilhelmenia
Margery kills Tanaka's girlfriend
Margery wraps everyone up

Anything after that is plot in the story, as the fight was over.

Ah, that explains a few of our misconceptions. You see, what you just described is not what I call plot, I call that battle choreography. Plot is something that adds to the story as a whole, something that has longer term effects, but things like Shana's sword being taken doesn't really affect the plot in any way.

In terms of battle choreography, more happened in the twins fight, yes. But then the twins fight was also much longer.

Originally Posted by ChrissieXD

I would be shocked, as would anyone, to see that. However, after realizing that it's just an imaginary world and everything will be restored to the way it used to be, I wouldn't continue to go beserk. Rather, I'd keep a calm demeanor and wait it out.

When was the last time we saw Tanaka keeping a calm demeanor? For someone like him, the reaction was perfectly natural.

Originally Posted by ChrissieXD

Note that this is going to sound sarcastic, but I honestly do not mean it to be.
I'm sorry. I kind of forgot that ASuki isn't like the other boards I've been to, where people tended to argue with me just because they wanted to argue with me so that they could trip me up on one little thing and use it to discredit my entire argument. I'm just not really used to having an argument to somebody who actually believes their side of the story, rather than trying to play the devil's advocate in order to make me feel terrible. For my accusations, I'm sorry.

No offense taken, don't worry about it.

[Kristen]

Originally Posted by Keroko

Whoops, sorry for the assumption then.



Okay, I can hardly argue whether you found the plot boring or not. Having you aknowledge that there is plot is enough 'victory' for me.

Heh. All stories have plot, it's just some can be really hollow and repetitive.

Ah, that explains a few of our misconceptions. You see, what you just described is not what I call plot, I call that battle choreography. Plot is something that adds to the story as a whole, something that has longer term effects, but things like Shana's sword being taken doesn't really affect the plot in any way.

In terms of battle choreography, more happened in the twins fight, yes. But then the twins fight was also much longer.

Heh, yeah, that's what I've been arguing the entire time. "The plot of the battle". AKA, what happens between the point where the fight starts, and where it ends.

When was the last time we saw Tanaka keeping a calm demeanor? For someone like him, the reaction was perfectly natural.

No offense taken, don't worry about it.

I've seen him react calmly a lot. It's just that the reaction after knowing that everything was in the Fuzetsu ready to be fixed was completely unnatural. It was like trying to pour yourself a bowl of cereal, missing the bowl, and then feeling upset that you wouldn't get any breakfast, even though you can easily just pick it off the table and put it back in the bowl.



Also, just a note on the series as a whole. I'm surprised they haven't brought Oga or Ike into the world of the story, keeping them oblivious to it. Like, I thought they might be torched somewhere along the way, or told the truth like Yoshida...

[Tokkan]

Originally Posted by ChrissieXD

I've seen him react calmly a lot. It's just that the reaction after knowing that everything was in the Fuzetsu ready to be fixed was completely unnatural. It was like trying to pour yourself a bowl of cereal, missing the bowl, and then feeling upset that you wouldn't get any breakfast, even though you can easily just pick it off the table and put it back in the bowl.

Oh come on, if you see someone you care deeply about get an arm and a leg ripped off, then regardless of the situation you're going to freak out and panic. You're confusing a logical reaction with a natural one, humans are in most situations not very logical at all. Tanaka's reaction was very natural.

[Kinny Riddle]

To take this thread away from the engaging debate and go on a lighter note for a while:

Does anyone find it hilarious at the end when Shana is surrounded and photographed by all the guys? Even though it is a school festival, such zealous flashing away is as though they're in some anime convention cosplay event.

And this has got to be the episode with the most panty shots I've seen since the last episode of Series I and the Movie, even Oga-chan gets some fan-service shots while being tossed by Margery's fireball.

[Machina]

How did I not notice the panty shots?

[Sinestra]

Originally Posted by Kinny Riddle

To take this thread away from the engaging debate and go on a lighter note for a while:

Does anyone find it hilarious at the end when Shana is surrounded and photographed by all the guys? Even though it is a school festival, such zealous flashing away is as though they're in some anime convention cosplay event.

And this has got to be the episode with the most panty shots I've seen since the last episode of Series I and the Movie, even Oga-chan gets some fan-service shots while being tossed by Margery's fireball.

HA i was so involved with the actual plot that whole series of scenes slipped my mind nice call. But yes there were quite a few panty shots in this one episode and WTF who the hell were those guys and why were they on school grounds. It looked like a Cosplay convention.

[DX HBK]

I don't know if having fanservice while people getting killed in the Fuzetsu is a good combination.

[MidoriHiME]

THIS is Shana at its best. Absolutely awesome fight - 10/10 for me. It was worth waiting through 12 episodes of filler for this. I can't wait to see how things develop from here~

And for the record, I didn't even notice the panty shots.

[teachopvutru]

This episode was amazing. Too bad it felt kinda short... before I realized it the episode was already over. Definitely want more.

The soundtrack was good, too.

Originally Posted by Machina

How did I not notice the panty shots?

Hmmm, even after reading this before watching this episode, I didn't notice any panty shots either

[Irenicus]

Originally Posted by tiachopvutru

Hmmm, even after reading this before watching this episode, I didn't notice any panty shots either

There was a panty shot?