Madoka Magica - Episodes 11 & 12 Discussion/Poll - Final Episodes!

[sa547]

Originally Posted by pikachuwei

i think if people who have only watched the raws watched the subbed versions, a lot of the confusion will disappear

as for me im still a bit puzzled by Homura's new role (Wings??) in the end. Is she just another powerful Magical girl, or is she something more?

Much like the ending scene in Inception, an open-ended conclusion, more questions than answers... The kind that begs for a spin-off.

Originally Posted by pikachuwei

also, has 2Chan crashed yet? XD

Can't say, but in terms of an uproar I think it's more like the Walpurgis' Circus.

[creb]

Originally Posted by Riga92

While yes Kyoko and Mami reappear, after you watch the credits, it shows Homura in a desert (post-apocalyptic?) seemingly all alone, fighting the demons. While there may be still other Puella Magi, the scene seems to imply that Homura is the only one left.

Ah, that's what you were talking about. Anyways, let's recap. Madoka's sacrifice essentially did only one thing. Instead of the Magical Girls turning into witches, the despair itself turns into demons. ie: The girls get to feel a little cleaner in that they aren't going to turn into evil creatures, never mind that they're still responsible for the creation of these new demons by virtue of their very existence as magical girls. And that if they are at all responsible, they will follow Sayaka in killing themselves to prevent their existence from spawning these demons.

On a practical level, the system is essentially the same, and an ending where super demons ala super Madoka witch destroys the world sounds about right. Gods. The more I think about how pointless Madoka's sacrifice was, the more I rage. You know Gen couldn't help but make an ending that shows how futile and pointless it all was!

I suppose the fact it instills such feelings is an indication that the ending was good after all. ;p

[zeniselv]

i know its all about opinions but i dont know why ppl feel so dissapinted about the ending, it wasnt shocking, was predictable, and somewhat cliché(specially too similar to persona 3 ending),but it wasnt bad, i wonder what you were expecting.

[DasDingus]

Originally Posted by Makender

Although this now makes me wonder what a wish of no grief and despair in the world would accomplish. I suppose witches would continue to exist from depletion of magic, but I also think they're a direct result of accumulated grief and despair. Bleh its too complex to think if that would better change the system or not.

I feel like that direction would be a non-starter since you often hear people argue that removing sadness/grief/despair/what have you renders happiness meaningless. Without a counterpart for the good things in life you end up not knowing what the good things are. I don't think that's somewhere the writers would want to go given how the rest of the show played out.

[totoum]

Originally Posted by sa547

Much like the ending scene in Inception, an open-ended conclusion, more questions than answers... The kind that begs for a spin-off.

You know the Oriko manga that's about to start,since it involved Kyoko and Mami people thought it would be a prequel but maybe it's a sequel.

[prototype_sky]

I'm confused about this ending.

If madoka doesn't exist in that final universe what was Homura's wish for becoming a magica then.

[Hagoshod]

Originally Posted by Makender

That doesn't change that his intentions in the original timeline are still pretty obvious. He didn't care about Madoka in any particular way (making the assumption she wasn't already powerful in the original time, that's fine) in the original timeline. He just wanted as many magical girls as possible. He saw Madoka, thought "Mmmm prime target...," and contracted with her. Nothing special about it. Then after the karmic weight kicks in does he care and insist on following her around. Then the "point" of Kyuube following Madoka around as you call it kicks in.

That doesn't solve the paradox. Kyubey follows Madoka around before the established reason for him to follow Madoka around kicks in.

And then there's the question of if she was a "normal" level Magical Girl before Homura ironically suped up her powers, how the hell was she able to defeat Walpurgisnacht by herself in the original timeline?

[omimon]

Originally Posted by zeniselv

i know its all about opinions but i dont know why ppl feel so dissapinted about the ending, it wasnt shocking, was predictable, and somewhat cliché(specially too similar to persona 3 ending),but it wasnt bad, i wonder what you were expecting.

I think they were expecting some sort for scenario where just watching it would make you sin your pants.

[Shadow5YA]

Originally Posted by Hagoshod

Yeah, but Madoka being a Magical Girl is the entire cause of Homura going through the time loops.

No, it's not. Madoka dying or becoming a Witch caused Homura's time travel. That is not the same as becoming a Puella Magi in of itself. If being a Puella Magi was the problem, Homura would have given up much, much earlier in timelines 2 and 3 where Madoka already contracted. It is Homura's refusal to accept Madoka's death that compelled her to make her wish. A cause and effect relationship do not make two events the same.

[erneiz_hyde]

I just woke up after my live-watching endeavor and now going to write what I think. Am I mistaken to think that Homura, as the last old-school MG (among the casts) left after Lord Madoka sacrifices herself, she can't restore her magic through grief seeds anymore, which means she's going to disappear soon anyway and that the black wings she has at the epilogue is really her going Witch (which is also why Madoka can be seen in that particular scene).

But still, I really think this is the best ending without pulling too many absurd ASBs or butterflies out of nowhere. I think there was enough hint, though the short length of the series might make it not look like so. I was expecting a sad or very bittersweet ending knowing Urobuchi, so I was just taken aback because it actually got a Good Happy Ending (you can argue much about it, but when you think of all the other possible endings, this really is a good and happy one).

Thank you Gen, it was a blast. And Good Friday to everyone.

[Dark Wing]

Originally Posted by prototype_sky

I'm confused about this ending.

If madoka doesn't exist in that final universe what was Homura's wish for becoming a magica then.

I explained that a page ago her wish never changed she's still protecting Madoka...

Originally Posted by Dark Wing

Let me see if I can word this differently...Remember Homura's original wish was to go back in time to protect Madoka, However since Madoka transcended to god hood and has become part of the universe itself the nature of Homura's wish and powers have also changed. This means that Homura is no longer has the power of a time traveler but a kind of lets say an angel whos powers are strong enough to protects the universe wherever it's needed.

[Riga92]

Originally Posted by creb

Ah, that's what you were talking about. Anyways, let's recap. Madoka's sacrifice essentially did only one thing. Instead of the Magical Girls turning into witches, the despair itself turns into demons. ie: The girls get to feel a little cleaner in that they aren't going to turn into evil creatures, never mind that they're still responsible for the creation of these new demons by virtue of their very existence as magical girls. And that if they are at all responsible, they will follow Sayaka in killing themselves to prevent their existence from spawning these demons.

On a practical level, the system is essentially the same, and an ending where super demons ala super Madoka witch destroys the world sounds about right. Gods. The more I think about how pointless Madoka's sacrifice was, the more I rage. You know Gen couldn't help but make an ending that shows how futile and pointless it all was!

I suppose the fact it instills such feelings is an indication that the ending was good after all. ;p

Yea now that you mention it, the new system is still essentially the same as the witch system, albeit less efficient . But atleast the puella magi don't die from their own despair and can continue to fight till their last dying breath.

[omimon]

Originally Posted by Hagoshod

That doesn't solve the paradox. Kyubey follows Madoka around before the established reason for him to follow Madoka around kicks in.

And then there's the question of if she was a "normal" level Magical Girl before Homura ironically suped up her powers, how the hell was she able to succeed where Mami failed with support and defeat Walpurgisnacht by herself in the original timeline?

She might have pulled a Kyoko and went kamikaze on it. Also Kyobey could have been following Madoka in timeline 5 because he felt her power when he got close enough or when Homura arrived.

[kk2extreme]

The ending feels like ending of TTGL, except filling with girls and lacking GARness

Homura being Simon and Madoka being Nia/Kamina

[gecd]

Originally Posted by prototype_sky

I'm confused about this ending.

If madoka doesn't exist in that final universe what was Homura's wish for becoming a magica then.

I have a theory about that
but that will be spoiler for S;G

Spoiler for the keywords are..:

reading steiner and attractor field

[omimon]

Originally Posted by erneiz_hyde

I just woke up after my live-watching endeavor and now going to write what I think. Am I mistaken to think that Homura, as the last old-school MG (among the casts) left after Lord Madoka sacrifices herself, she can't restore her magic through grief seeds anymore, which means she's going to disappear soon anyway and that the black wings she has at the epilogue is really her going Witch (which is also why Madoka can be seen in that particular scene).

But still, I really think this is the best ending without pulling too many absurd ASBs or butterflies out of nowhere. I think there was enough hint, though the short length of the series might make it not look like so. I was expecting a sad or very bittersweet ending knowing Urobuchi, so I was just taken aback because it actually got a Good Happy Ending (you can argue much about it, but when you think of all the other possible endings, this really is a good and happy one).

Thank you Gen, it was a blast. And Good Friday to everyone.

I think Homura in the new world have the ability the switch out her soul gem when one gets corrupted like switching batteries.

[atua]

Originally Posted by erneiz_hyde

I just woke up after my live-watching endeavor and now going to write what I think. Am I mistaken to think that Homura, as the last old-school MG (among the casts) left after Lord Madoka sacrifices herself, she can't restore her magic through grief seeds anymore, which means she's going to disappear soon anyway and that the black wings she has at the epilogue is really her going Witch (which is also why Madoka can be seen in that particular scene).

The new "grief seeds" that drop from demons can be used to cleanse a soul gem.

Spoiler for Soul Gem 2:

[totoum]

Originally Posted by Hagoshod

And then there's the question of if she was a "normal" level Magical Girl before Homura ironically suped up her powers, how the hell was she able to defeat Walpurgisnacht by herself in the original timeline?

Well here's a proposition:

Mami probably already had weakened it quite a bit and then Madoka went Kamikaze and delivered the final blow.

[Forsaken_Infinity]

Somewhat of an expected ending.

And I am not too sure how I feel about it. So i am withholding vote for now.

The ending was pretty good but it IS a deus ex machina ending. Ala a lot of mindfuck with lots of new info that wasn't there before (but certainly true that it wasn't as farfetched as many other shows tend to be... I kinda expected an ending similar to this myself). And Madoka's character development felt too rapid. But other than that... it was a very nice watch.

The show was great. Episode 10 alone makes this show worth a watch. The finale felt a bit underwhelming. It may be because it came after a long break and there was a huge buildup of hype and momentum from episode 10 was all gone etc. So I will watch this show again from episode 1 through 12 when I have time and then I will pass a judgment.

For now, let's just say I enjoyed it.

Spoiler for Also,:

QQ. Poor Homura. I really wanted a better Yuri scene than that wtf masked naked bodies scene. Can't say that I didn't expect the ending though. Always knew it was gonna end like this (as in, they wouldn't end up together no matter what. FU Gen.) anyway.

Regarding the Madoka getting stronger deal, and as an answer to why she, as an ordinary Magical Girl was able to defeat Walpurgis Night in original timeline, my hypothesis is that Walpurgis Night also gets stronger through the loops. Except she doesn't get stronger at anywhere near the same rate as Madoka. That is also why Homura can't beat her no matter how many times she tries. Because she gets stronger at the same rate Homura does. (And I still think Walpurgis Night was Homura's witch form. They never showed who Walpurgis Night was / how Madoka dealt with her in the end. The scene just changed to Homura at the end of the universe. Just asdfj;klasf; I feel cheated there, I really do. Despite the implication that Madoka was godlike and since she technically relieved Homura of any reason for her to despair, and thus Walpurgis Night was never created, they could have at least confirmed it somehow.)

[Hagoshod]

Originally Posted by omimon

She might have pulled a Kyoko and went kamikaze on it.

Homura was watching the entire time. If she knew for certain that Kyoko's stunt would be enough to destroy Walpurgisnacht, then she would have used herself the first chance she got to spare Madoka.

That doesn't make sense.