[Manga] Chapter 349 Discussion

[Sarugaki]

Originally Posted by xPresagio

If that's Juugo -the CS original owner- then he truly got a pretty boring/uninteresting design (never mind the lame CS2 form). In the first frames, his body and hair looked like the dark Ichigo from Bleach, although the overall concept sort of reminds me to Broly, the original Super Saijan in DBZ.

Other than that, the revelation kind of destroys the "magic" side of the CS as well as greatly reduce Oro's reputation: it's no longer a sinister seal full of dark elements or whatever, but just a substance extracted (and at most, somewhat enhanced) from another guy. A guy that he didn't even have to search for.

Good points.

Juggo is probably a berserker with an insane chakra pool. I wonder if he will be matched up against Naruto or Kisame.

It looks like Kishimoto had no idea of how he was going to explain the CS later on.
At first, all the elements evoked evil powers at play : cursed seal, forbidden jutsu, vampire style infection, evil suppresser seal, tomoe marks, berserker rage, dimension barriers to keep the soul in the body and activate CS2, transformations into monsters

Now it is just a regular medical jutsu. Sounds like a typical case of retroactive continuity to me.

[Hunter]

You should re-read the definition then. We knew nothing about the genese of the CS so Kishimoto could come up with anything for its origin without any need for retcon.
In this case it all stick anyway. Oro altered Juugo's body fluid/enzimes to be used on any ninja (albeit strong enough to wistand the physical trauma) and created a seal to allow its user to release the substance at will in their body.
The substance increases physical's aspects of its user depending of their potential (kind of Captain America's serum in a evil way) and give the user murderous urges.
Using the CS too often probably makes the users loosing it and drives them insane.

[Sarugaki]

Originally Posted by Hunter

You should re-read the definition then. We knew nothing about the genese of the CS so Kishimoto could come up with anything for its origin without any need for retcon.

Originally Posted by Wikipedia

Addition

Some retcons do not directly contradict previously established facts, but "fill in" missing background details, usually to support current plot points.

Point is, Orochimaru was heavily hyped up back then, now Kishi makes him and his techniques look more human since he's gone.

[MobiuS]

Hes a ninja scientist after all. This doesn't make me any less impressed with him.

I mean:

1.) He had to extract the liquid safely from Juugo.
2.) Convert what is currently a liquid into something generated by a seal.
3.) Find a way to make the seal irremovable.
4.) Make the seal trigger-able at his whim.
5.) Make the seal trigger when you are in combat.

Its essentially like an unremovable summoning seal inflicted via bite. He summons the potent toxin in you and skeets on you.

Remember Anko? She thought the seal was gone but he retriggered it when he wanted to and strolled away. Essentially once he seals you ... you are done. You can never beat him. Kakashi threw a wrench in his plans with that counter-seal , allowing Sasuke to tap into CS power without the control of Oro over him. perhaps he thought he was adding to the Konoha arsenal. So wrong ...

[Kyu410]

I heard a few ppl say that Karin is going to die if she opens the door. That would be the worst case scenario but if Juugo attacks Karin when she opens the door Sasuke will just intervene and save Karin.

[Rurouni Zeke]

Originally Posted by Kyu410

I heard a few ppl say that Karin is going to die if she opens the door. That would be the worst case scenario but if Juugo attacks Karin when she opens the door Sasuke will just intervene and save Karin.

I actually hope the plan is that he lets those two go at it for a bit as a sort of "test", then he steps in and breaks up the fight before either of them kills the other. It would spice things up a little bit.

[yinstro]

Originally Posted by MysticNinjaJay

I would not call this a bloodline trait.

This is more akin to Shodaime's unique ability to control Bijuu which was inherited by Yamato through gene splicing.

Notice that Tsunade, Shodaime's direct descendant, does not have this ability. It is not a trait of Shodaime's family it is a trait for him personally, for whatever reason (how the hell can a person's biological makeup give them the ability to control bijuu? ).

Orochimaru must have extracted Juugo's blood to create a venom he injects into Curse Seal candidates to give them the ability (somehow it is emitted through his fangs because he gave Sasuke the seal by biting him like a snake).

I think Juugo's character is pretty much going to play the role of the classic berserker, who comes off like a schizo and then goes truly insane, transforming and showing all kinds of demonic power.

I'd expect him to be the wild card on Team Sasuke. Sasuke seems to be very selective with who he chooses for his team so they are all sure to have unique abilities that will become significant for whatever agenda he is plotting.

actually in my opinion This fits perfectly with a bloodline trait, the fact that it was passed down with his genes, when he is shown doing it, it seems to have something to do with his wood, so most likely it is a side effect or product of his earth+water abilities, and the nature of that chakra. As for tsunade having it, if it was a dominant or recessive trait, it isnt likely tsunade whould inherit it. as the grand daughter, its only 50% chance she would have the ability, and if her parent didnt have it, then no chance. If its recessive, then unlikely she would have it unless someone her parent got down with happened to have the trait. If its one of the other types then who can say.

the whole problem with the schizo/psycho card is, apparently hes not a dude suigetsu would hate, or even think is an ahole, except when its been too long. And even if he remains schizo/psycho that totally destroys his team, you cant expect a insane madman to cooperate. The most interesting thing will be how he gets him to cooperate.

[yuchan]

I'm actually enjoying these chapters. I like action but we need progress in the story to get anywhere. I hate Sasuke abd love Naruto but we get too much Naruto and not enough of the side characters. Sasuke isn't a side character but we're getting introduced to new ones and learning about Orochimaru and his village as a result. I'm content with the subject at hand.

[-HyugaNeji-]

Hm, can someone please explain to me, how those prisoners already KNOW that Orochimaru is dead? Why the hell does already everyone knows he's gone...That makes NO sense at all -_- Do i smell plothole no jutsu or am i just forgetting sth? Enlighten me plx.

[Hunter]

Originally Posted by sharingard

Point is, Orochimaru was heavily hyped up back then, now Kishi makes him and his techniques look more human since he's gone.

If you read what this particular type of retcon is about you will see it isn't about mere explaination of already existing element within the plot.
This isn't a "here what really happened between X and Y events giving a new light to what Z event really meant" kind of thing.

And I really don't see how that made Oro looks like less than he is. Experiencing on human subjects to create/use new abilities always was what Oro has been about. That's essentially what he did to give Yamato the ability of Shodai except more advanced since he can give it to anyone who can handle it.

Originally Posted by -HyugaNeji-

Hm, can someone please explain to me, how those prisoners already KNOW that Orochimaru is dead? Why the hell does already everyone knows he's gone...That makes NO sense at all -_- Do i smell plothole no jutsu or am i just forgetting sth? Enlighten me plx.

Sasuke recruiting his team lasts for days. Oro's hideouts are all over the countries, for all we know it's been weeks since Oro was defeated.
He's the leader of the Sound, his subordinates are eventually bound to heard that he's gone. Add to this the prisonners that Sasuke & co set free and who propagated the news and you have the answer.

[Opi]

after these couple chapters, i wonder if Oro had so many minions under his control, why didnt he send more of them to retrieve sasuke in Part 1?

seems kinda dumb to send only the sound 4, when he has people like juugo, and possibly suigetsu and karin? not to mention 100+ other captives...

[kikko_s]

Originally Posted by Opi

after these couple chapters, i wonder if Oro had so many minions under his control, why didnt he send more of them to retrieve sasuke in Part 1?

seems kinda dumb to send only the sound 4, when he has people like juugo, and possibly suigetsu and karin? not to mention 100+ other captives...

Well, that's just it. They were captives. They were his experiment subjects, why would he send them? They'd just run. There weren't many that were loyal enough as the Sound 4 were. Remember also that the Sound 4 had specialties in sealing, and one of the things they did was further awaken the CS. Maybe they were the only ones who knew how to do it.

[Asianknight82]

Is it just me or does Karin have a mole/pimple/wart on her lower lip? kinda disturbing...

[kishinfoulux]

Originally Posted by Rurouni Zeke

Juugo wasn't the one who got pwned. It's not too much of a problem if Sasuke pwns nobodies anyway; I'd get kinda upset if he suddenly had to make an effort against randoms after offing Orochimaru.

These chapters aren't really so exciting to me. Everyone else seems to be going nuts over them. Maybe I'm missing something lol.

My mistake I assumed it was him. I'm glad it's not because the cursed seal form looked pretty generic and him getting owned so easily is not the best way to introduce a character.

Than again this guy was cursed seal 2 which is nothing to snooze at so I still remain firm with what I said originally. Generic henchman or not I don't see why it's necessary to throw all this fodder Sasuke's way. We get it. He magically became stronger through bad writing. At least have one of the others dispatch him instead.

Oh and I don't think your missing anything. I honestly don't see what's to go nuts over these past few chapters. Once the Oro fiasco ended the interest dropped immensely.

Originally Posted by SpiRo

roflmao i dont know what u watch or read .. but once again, hatred does blind ppl

I read Naruto, which is currently being hijacked by Sasuke who should leave the duties of main character to Naruto. It has nothing to do with hatred. But honestly Sasuke isn't main character material. He barely said a word these past few chapters. I know thats his "character" but it's not suitable for a lead role.

[Lendial]

maybe its supposed to be a beauty mark

[Asianknight82]

beauty mark, is just a nice name for mole, either way a mole on the lip? :gag:

[Hunter]

Originally Posted by Asianknight82

Is it just me or does Karin have a mole/pimple/wart on her lower lip? kinda disturbing...

It's lips glow, Kishimoto started to draw that on female characters a few volumes ago. Kurenai has the same thing, actually Haku had too if I remember well ^^

[tkdtiger]

I felt that this chapter was kind of short. It wasn't bad, but it wasn't great either. It just seemed veru short compared to the others...

[Ryuujin]

Originally Posted by El_Frenchie

When his two new teammates say that Juugo went to Orochimaru of his own free will... which "says a lot about how crazy he was" Sasuke looks a bit regretful.

He just doesn't look angry, he just looks saddened.

This made me lol...

[MobiuS]

Originally Posted by kishinfoulux

My mistake I assumed it was him. I'm glad it's not because the cursed seal form looked pretty generic and him getting owned so easily is not the best way to introduce a character.

Than again this guy was cursed seal 2 which is nothing to snooze at so I still remain firm with what I said originally. Generic henchman or not I don't see why it's necessary to throw all this fodder Sasuke's way. We get it. He magically became stronger through bad writing. At least have one of the others dispatch him instead.

Oh and I don't think your missing anything. I honestly don't see what's to go nuts over these past few chapters. Once the Oro fiasco ended the interest dropped immensely.



I read Naruto, which is currently being hijacked by Sasuke who should leave the duties of main character to Naruto. It has nothing to do with hatred. But honestly Sasuke isn't main character material. He barely said a word these past few chapters. I know thats his "character" but it's not suitable for a lead role.

Truer words have never been said. Since Sasuke left Konoha, he hasnt as much as gained a single scratch from anything. Combat or training. Thats just bs.

It seems Kish is devoting more time to the sharingan than to the actual plot of the manga. Everything has become so sharingan centred we dont even remember what a normal fight feels like.