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Old 2021-05-29, 18:57   Link #681
HtwoN
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I think this episode answered a lot of questions people asked here. The military leadership isn't incompetent, but it simply follows "the will of the people". Lena's uncle knows they are doomed, but resigned to his fate. Most people either don't care or convince themselves that they can't do anything.

I have to say the directing in this show is really good.
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Old 2021-05-29, 19:07   Link #682
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Annette gets no sympathy from me. You can't blame her for what she did as a kid, but you can blame her for what she's been doing since then. Instead of trying to make up for what she did, she continued her father's work and experimented on children. Lucky for her, Shin said he's forgotten most of his time in the first district, so he probably doesn't remember her. He's not the vengeful type anyway.

The Albas never cease to amaze. Their master plan is to have all the 86 killed before the war ends and erase them from the records so that when it's over and communications are restored with other countries, they'll be able to pretend they never even existed. Huh, sorry, but what? You're telling me other countries aren't aware they have (had) a sizable colored population? Their technology is better than ours, there's no way they don't know and don't have some kind of records themselves. The higher ups are so brain dead the Legion won't even be able to harvest them.

Shin's brother snapped at some point but he never truly hated Shin. In fact, he wants to protect him, but that's been kind of twisted by him not being human anymore.
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Old 2021-05-29, 20:27   Link #683
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Nazis gonna Nazi.

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Annette gets no sympathy from me. You can't blame her for what she did as a kid, but you can blame her for what she's been doing since then. Instead of trying to make up for what she did, she continued her father's work and experimented on children.
Went straight past bystander effect and did it herself.
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Old 2021-05-29, 20:32   Link #684
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Originally Posted by HtwoN View Post
I think this episode answered a lot of questions people asked here. The military leadership isn't incompetent, but it simply follows "the will of the people". Lena's uncle knows they are doomed, but resigned to his fate. Most people either don't care or convince themselves that they can't do anything.
Or just don't know any better because of the Republic's propaganda machine. Not many Alban kids probably get to see live combat or "reality" like Lena did.
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Originally Posted by Kanon View Post
Annette gets no sympathy from me. You can't blame her for what she did as a kid, but you can blame her for what she's been doing since then. Instead of trying to make up for what she did, she continued her father's work and experimented on children. Lucky for her, Shin said he's forgotten most of his time in the first district, so he probably doesn't remember her. He's not the vengeful type anyway.
And then she has the gall to try and guilt trip Lena by saying it's her fault Spearhead is on a suicide mission because she tried to keep them alive instead of not caring and pretending like everything is fine like Annette does. No wonder Annette hates her so much, Lena is probably the kind of person she wishes she could be .
Quote:
Shin's brother snapped at some point but he never truly hated Shin. In fact, he wants to protect him, but that's been kind of twisted by him not being human anymore.
Yeah, Lena got to see that Rei still cared about Shin, but Shin can only remember what happened between them .
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Old 2021-05-29, 20:59   Link #685
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I really don't know how the Alba's plan is remotely feasible. I'm not sure you can just cover up the demise of a sizable part of your population like that. Especially not when other countries should know about the Legion and the fight against them. How do explain how they kept them at bay for so long?
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Old 2021-05-29, 21:05   Link #686
sierra117
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Originally Posted by Wandering Soul View Post
I really don't know how the Alba's plan is remotely feasible. I'm not sure you can just cover up the demise of a sizable part of your population like that. Especially not when other countries should know about the Legion and the fight against them. How do explain how they kept them at bay for so long?
blame it all to Legion(they technically won't be wrong)
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Old 2021-05-29, 21:14   Link #687
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Seen the chapter, it was seen a bit of the past of Lena's friend, and the surviving members prepare for the final battle, although I felt that some things were skipped, anyway, good chapter.
Question; for those who read the novel, the adaptation skipped a battle ?, since they did not show the deaths of some team members.
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Old 2021-05-29, 21:31   Link #688
X207
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part of me is now rooting for Legion... let them all through and wipe the alba out for their crimes. if they can get legion to not kill the 86 then that would be ideal but they are programmed to attack. make some room in the Legion machines for a living human to control it and let the 86 pilot it to rebel against the alba.
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Old 2021-05-29, 21:40   Link #689
Endscape
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanon View Post
The Albas never cease to amaze. Their master plan is to have all the 86 killed before the war ends and erase them from the records so that when it's over and communications are restored with other countries, they'll be able to pretend they never even existed. Huh, sorry, but what? You're telling me other countries aren't aware they have (had) a sizable colored population? Their technology is better than ours, there's no way they don't know and don't have some kind of records themselves. The higher ups are so brain dead the Legion won't even be able to harvest them.
In realpolitik, plausible deniability is the name of the game. Governments that commit genocide usually use tactics like this and they never had the advantage of having no foreign presence around either. God knows what the Ottoman Empire might have gotten away with were they under the same conditions when they genocided the Armenians.

Without accurate records, it's not going to be possible to tell how many 86 died on the battlefield or how many were killed in the initial Legion raids(better believe they'll lie their asses off about that). This is the sort of stuff that's fiercely debated to this day even in real life.

Without any 86 around, they can lie about the exact conditions of what happened, and say stuff like they moved the 86 for military purposes and that the conscripts had a fair chance to rejoin society. That's another reason why they maintain a veneer of civility about what they're doing, like sending Spearhead on a suicide mission instead of just murdering them. They likely know they can't perfectly conceal what happens from other countries, but they'll literally do anything to avoid it looking like deliberate genocide and to make it look less bad than it is. I guarantee, if the Republic still exists in a 100 years, they'll probably still be denying this happened.
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Old 2021-05-29, 21:47   Link #690
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wandering Soul View Post
I really don't know how the Alba's plan is remotely feasible. I'm not sure you can just cover up the demise of a sizable part of your population like that. Especially not when other countries should know about the Legion and the fight against them. How do explain how they kept them at bay for so long?
It's amazing what people can believe when they're full of enough hatred and/or fear. Who would have thought so many people would believe that Democrats, business elites and Hollywood insiders are Satan-worshipping child sex traffickers?

Make San Magnolia Great Again.
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Old 2021-05-29, 22:44   Link #691
sierra117
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Originally Posted by Gerard07 View Post
Question; for those who read the novel, the adaptation skipped a battle ?, since they did not show the deaths of some team members.
no, they didn't, the adaption actually spend more time and give us more details about the deaths of others SS members, while the novel just mention their deaths briefly without any further details
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Old 2021-05-29, 23:22   Link #692
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Yeah the anime is doing what the novel is doing, but adding a bit more stuff. In the novel there are also time skips in between battles and more squad members dying.
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Old 2021-05-29, 23:27   Link #693
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Endscape View Post
In realpolitik, plausible deniability is the name of the game. Governments that commit genocide usually use tactics like this and they never had the advantage of having no foreign presence around either. God knows what the Ottoman Empire might have gotten away with were they under the same conditions when they genocided the Armenians.

Without accurate records, it's not going to be possible to tell how many 86 died on the battlefield or how many were killed in the initial Legion raids(better believe they'll lie their asses off about that). This is the sort of stuff that's fiercely debated to this day even in real life.

Without any 86 around, they can lie about the exact conditions of what happened, and say stuff like they moved the 86 for military purposes and that the conscripts had a fair chance to rejoin society. That's another reason why they maintain a veneer of civility about what they're doing, like sending Spearhead on a suicide mission instead of just murdering them. They likely know they can't perfectly conceal what happens from other countries, but they'll literally do anything to avoid it looking like deliberate genocide and to make it look less bad than it is. I guarantee, if the Republic still exists in a 100 years, they'll probably still be denying this happened.
It's also probably part of why they are so lax with military reports, record, or even the Eighty-Six's actual names because they're trying to downplay it as much as possible and not keep hard copies of official record of what's going on and who all died.
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Originally Posted by BBOvenGuy View Post
It's amazing what people can believe when they're full of enough hatred and/or fear. Who would have thought so many people would believe that Democrats, business elites and Hollywood insiders are Satan-worshipping child sex traffickers?

Make San Magnolia Great Again.
Lena would probably be accused of promoting fake news .
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Originally Posted by sierra117 View Post
no, they didn't, the adaption actually spend more time and give us more details about the deaths of others SS members, while the novel just mention their deaths briefly without any further details
Yeah, ironically Haruto is the one who gets the same Light Novel treatment of an off-screen death. I guess it doesn't always pay to be voiced by Deku .
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Old 2021-05-30, 00:18   Link #694
Eater of All
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I particularly like this scene in the ep.

Images
Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?
Lena being on Saint Magnolia's side casts her as the "true" successor of Saint Magnolia's ideals. But it also highlights her solitude in the fight. Two pillars and a vast expanse separates her visually from her uncle, showing how far apart they are ideologically. Not particularly subtle but it's effective cinematography.

BTW I just noticed the harem tag in this thread. Does this become a harem show later?
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Old 2021-05-30, 00:40   Link #695
Yazi88
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No, its not really a harem show. Some girls are interested in Shin but that's about it.
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Old 2021-05-30, 01:55   Link #696
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Originally Posted by Wandering Soul View Post
I really don't know how the Alba's plan is remotely feasible. I'm not sure you can just cover up the demise of a sizable part of your population like that. Especially not when other countries should know about the Legion and the fight against them. How do explain how they kept them at bay for so long?
The show is a sequence of implausible mini-scenarios held together with moldy duct-tape, which doesn't make any sense if you think too long on it. Turn your brain off and watch the fireworks.
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Old 2021-05-30, 02:10   Link #697
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
There's only five Eighty-Six left, but at least they are resolved and at peace with what's going to happen and are happy to have lasted this long and still have each other...is this truly the end for Spearhead? Is there anything left that Lena can do ?
It's not a suicide mission. Listen to what Shin tells Lena, and you can tell. They may die in the attempt, but the attempt is escape, not suicide. The plan is to kill Shin's brother, and then when the Legion forces fall into confusion, they punch through and get away to whatever's on the other side.

Meanwhile, I'm a little surprised there's been no further mention of the elephant in the room, i.e. the fact that Legion is not going to shut itself down in two years. I know Lena is hyper-focused on saving her own unit, but you'd think she'd try making a military case for keeping them alive. This two-birds-with-one-stone strategy of killing all the Eighty-Six while holding off Legion isn't going to work. In the end, it's not going to matter whether or not they kill off all the Eight-Six, because they themselves will be dead. But I guess the denial pile has gotten too deep for that.

And wait just a minute... Annette said her Eight-Six neighbors had two sons, one who was her own age and one who was much older. Surely that wasn't Shin's family, was it...?
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Old 2021-05-30, 02:22   Link #698
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This episode sure had a lot of crazy faces. We've seen how Shin is where his brother is concerned (and considering his normal expression, its a big change) but not like being uploaded did much for Rei's sanity either.

And then there's Annette and her rant. It just leaves her more isolated but Lena finally got a straight answer from her few friends on just how bad the Republic really is. Lena's been trying to fix things in her own naive way but they've already given up (or rather that's the excuse they tell themselves). Lena can't even get anyone else to care, not like bringing up the upcoming Legion invasion would change their minds either (they don't view the 86 as human so wouldn't trust their word anyway).

Ironically the ones going off to their deaths are in a more cheerful mood than Lena, but then they have each other and they've been preparing for this for a long time. Shin's still trying to look out for Lena, telling her to run but abandoning the Republic, bad as it is, isn't in her character either. Nice direction in this episode, like that scene with Lena and Annette in what looks like her father's old study. Hopefully the good directing continues as next episode will be more action-packed.
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Old 2021-05-30, 09:40   Link #699
HtwoN
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magnuskn View Post
The show is a sequence of implausible mini-scenarios held together with moldy duct-tape, which doesn't make any sense if you think too long on it. Turn your brain off and watch the fireworks.
You sound really salty right now.

Don't join the discussion if you are going to dis on the show without providing any insights. Do you really have to do that after every episode?

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while, I'm a little surprised there's been no further mention of the elephant in the room, i.e. the fact that Legion is not going to shut itself down in two years. I know Lena is hyper-focused on saving her own unit, but you'd think she'd try making a military case for keeping them alive. This two-birds-with-one-stone strategy of killing all the Eighty-Six while holding off Legion isn't going to work. In the end, it's not going to matter whether or not they kill off all the Eight-Six, because they themselves will be dead. But I guess the denial pile has gotten too deep for that.?
From my impression, the military leadership, represented by Lena's uncle, already knows they are fucked. But they roll with it anyway.

Last edited by HtwoN; 2021-05-30 at 09:54.
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Old 2021-05-30, 10:06   Link #700
Frontier
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eater of All View Post
Images
Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?
Lena being on Saint Magnolia's side casts her as the "true" successor of Saint Magnolia's ideals. But it also highlights her solitude in the fight. Two pillars and a vast expanse separates her visually from her uncle, showing how far apart they are ideologically. Not particularly subtle but it's effective cinematography.
Lena's the only one left who still actually believes in a Republic and it's ideals that died a long time ago, or may have never existed to begin with .
Quote:
BTW I just noticed the harem tag in this thread. Does this become a harem show later?
Yeah, not sure where that came from but this is decidedly not a Harem show .

(I mean, there are plenty of Best Girls along with Lena, but it's not a Harem show ).
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Originally Posted by BBOvenGuy View Post
It's not a suicide mission. Listen to what Shin tells Lena, and you can tell. They may die in the attempt, but the attempt is escape, not suicide. The plan is to kill Shin's brother, and then when the Legion forces fall into confusion, they punch through and get away to whatever's on the other side.
True, but also even if they do fall against the Legion, they'll finally be free of the battlefield and will have gone out fighting on their own terms and with their heads hung high. I guess that's a certain kind of freedom for the Eighty-Six .
Quote:
Meanwhile, I'm a little surprised there's been no further mention of the elephant in the room, i.e. the fact that Legion is not going to shut itself down in two years. I know Lena is hyper-focused on saving her own unit, but you'd think she'd try making a military case for keeping them alive. This two-birds-with-one-stone strategy of killing all the Eighty-Six while holding off Legion isn't going to work. In the end, it's not going to matter whether or not they kill off all the Eight-Six, because they themselves will be dead. But I guess the denial pile has gotten too deep for that.
Even if Lena had brought it up I wouldn't have been surprised to see Karlstahl and Annette dismiss it as just not mattering at this point. Even if it were true, the Republic is too far gone to be worth saving .
Quote:
And wait just a minute... Annette said her Eight-Six neighbors had two sons, one who was her own age and one who was much older. Surely that wasn't Shin's family, was it...?
I would say the illustrations in Annette's room and the flashbacks are a pretty clear indicator...
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Originally Posted by Random14 View Post
Ironically the ones going off to their deaths are in a more cheerful mood than Lena, but then they have each other and they've been preparing for this for a long time. Shin's still trying to look out for Lena, telling her to run but abandoning the Republic, bad as it is, isn't in her character either. Nice direction in this episode, like that scene with Lena and Annette in what looks like her father's old study. Hopefully the good directing continues as next episode will be more action-packed.
He also tells her not to call them any more to save herself from further grief, but that just further isolates her because Shin and Spearhead are the only ones left she could speak openly with. She really doesn't have anyone to turn to now .
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