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View Poll Results: Steins;Gate - Episode 19 Rating | |||
Perfect 10 | 40 | 47.06% | |
9 out of 10 : Excellent | 26 | 30.59% | |
8 out of 10 : Very Good | 11 | 12.94% | |
7 out of 10 : Good | 8 | 9.41% | |
6 out of 10 : Average | 0 | 0% | |
5 out of 10 : Below Average | 0 | 0% | |
4 out of 10 : Poor | 0 | 0% | |
3 out of 10 : Bad | 0 | 0% | |
2 out of 10 : Very Bad | 0 | 0% | |
1 out of 10 : Painful | 0 | 0% | |
Voters: 85. You may not vote on this poll |
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2011-08-11, 14:12 | Link #141 | ||||
阿賀野型3番艦、矢矧 Lv180
Graphic Designer
Moderator Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Belgium, Brussels
Age: 37
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Can you expect him to say "oh wait, she is a victim, "maybe" I shouldn't punch her"? Again, even if Moeka was distressed due to FB lack of response, that has nothing to do with Okabe, since he needs that phone ASAP in order to avoid a tragedy. What's more is that it would indirectly save Moeka as well. Quote:
And honestly, a punch like this being more vicious than strangulation is really baffling: strangulation would not only imply you are dealing with the person's very life, but you are also facing their struggle and desperate attempt to live (by breathing). How on earth that example is more eligible than that punch? Quote:
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I guess I'm done, otherwise it might turn into another Madoka Magica "wish" discussion all over again.
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2011-08-11, 14:23 | Link #142 | |||
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Doing any of these might KILL her. Cutting off oxygen to the brain is not ever something you want to do unless you want to kill someone. This is NOT a viable alternative. Anything that can knock her unconscious has a chance of doing massive, long term damage to someone. I think we can agree that hurting someone badly is still not as bad as getting them killed. Killing her is infinitely worse. Quote:
She herself said she'd kill if ordered. And this is right now. Nobody has time for people like that. Quote:
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2011-08-11, 14:38 | Link #143 |
Ass connoisseur
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Florida
Age: 37
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I don't even consider Moeka a victim. Anyone so easily manipulated to treasure someones texts whom she never met as if they were the holy grail...Really doesn't deserve my empathy, or Okabes for that matter. I applaud Okabe for doing to Moeka what I wanted done ever since she ruthlessly murdered Mayuri.
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2011-08-11, 14:47 | Link #144 | |
NOM
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Outside the Asylum
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2011-08-11, 14:54 | Link #145 |
Last Engage
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Florida
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But Mayuri is still alive, and if this succeeds, she'll still be alive and, in fact, never have died in the first place. Some of her deaths weren't even caused by Moeka - if anything is to blame, it appears to be the universe itself. So what does this act of revenge leave us with? A broken person curled up on the floor, alone. Was the catharsis worth it?
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2011-08-11, 14:59 | Link #146 |
Ass connoisseur
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Florida
Age: 37
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She still killed her, she is the reason the chain of Mayuris deaths even started in the first place. Now that she's been killed in one worldline (by Moeka) she is fated to be killed in all of the others. And regardless, it does not change the fact Mayuri would still be dead if not for Okabe's ability to time travel. Moeka deserved that punch in the face, no doubt about it.
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2011-08-11, 15:00 | Link #147 | |
On a mission
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Edit: Also she would have killed herself most likely anyways. This might actually save her life with these realizations.
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2011-08-11, 15:27 | Link #148 | ||
Me, An Intellectual
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: UK
Age: 33
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2011-08-11, 15:28 | Link #149 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Miami, FL
Age: 37
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2011-08-11, 15:32 | Link #150 |
Me, An Intellectual
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: UK
Age: 33
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I don't think we have enough information on her past and how FB manipulated her to know for sure if she's a victim or not. I'm willing to believe she's a victim, even if she was willing to kill someone, but I still think it was neccessary for Okabe to do what he did, especially forcing her to confront the fact that FB had abandoned her and that she would've committed suicide. He's essentially saved Moeka's life (assuming she doesn't commit suicide that is)
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2011-08-11, 15:43 | Link #151 | ||||
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Age: 35
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Incidentally, you're correct in saying I see Okabe in a negative light. Is it really so surprising that actions like he took in this episode could cause someone to do so? Quote:
I wonder how things might've worked out had Okabe simply hefted Moeka over his shoulder and carried her back to the lab/home base. He evidently didn't think she was dangerous enough to have need to been put out while he looked through her phone right in front of her. Is she dangerous? A killer? Or not? One or the other, please. |
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2011-08-11, 15:47 | Link #152 | |
Me, An Intellectual
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: UK
Age: 33
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And I fail to see how tying Moeka up would've been easier much less better for her. And the idea of him carrying her...why would he do that? He's after the phone first and foremost. He's not interested in helping Moeka because that would be pointless if he plans to change everything again by reversing the D-mail.
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2011-08-11, 16:00 | Link #153 | |||
Disabled By Request
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As far as Okabe goes, I fail to see how you can view him with such negativity. He's seen the girl who'se as good as a sister to him die countless times in front of him in situations who couldn't do anything to change or prevent, and a huge number of those instances were thanks to Moeka. When you view Okabe as the one who acts purely out of hatred and emotion, why don't you stop and consider that Okabe is also a victim here? He's seen someone important to him die countless times, yet you're painting Moeka as the only victim of circumstance. Moeka is the one who, regardless of the reason, killed and would kill someone simply because she was told to. Why don't you tell me why she doesn't have to be "forced to learn" empathy when she clearly lacks that, her only focus her obsession with FB and taking order from that person? Also, Okabe displayed empathy a sizable number of times prior to this episode: he embraced Mayuri when he felt she was about to be taken away in front of her grandmother's grave. He's travelled back in time a million times to try and save her. Also, he's defended both Ruka and Feyris from bullies and would-be rapists respectively, getting his ass kicked for the girl in the latter of those cases. He even APOLOGIZED to Moeka for hitting her despite the fact that, as you say, he acted out of pure hatred. Pray tell, where is Okabe's lack of empathy? Quote:
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2011-08-11, 16:04 | Link #154 | |||
On a mission
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He is not Batman. You cannot forsee all these things given the time to prepare. I don't say he is a saint or he couldn't have done better. But what you are doing here is placing unreasonable expectations. And even from an observer's point of view, your first two thoughts, strangulation and a knockout blow TO THE HEAD, were going to either kill Moeka, give her a concussion, or brain damage if botched. Or at the least do more damage than a punch. The fact that you even considered these as possibilities is probably the greatest defense of Okabe's actions. This doesn't mean the possibilities aren't there. But these expectations of someone under pressure is unreasonable. If anyone is praising Okabe for anything. It's that he didn't do worse, because I am almost positive that a lot of people around here would get Moeka killed. Quote:
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Anyhow, try taking this into context into a split second. You can't possibly expect anyone to do that, especially not someone who's already mentally unstable. Anyhow, this reminds me of observers in games with limited information such as poker or any game with a "fog of war". It's really easy when you see everything, not as much when you don't.
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2011-08-11, 17:08 | Link #155 | ||||
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Age: 35
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Okabe himself receives plenty of support from say, for example, Kurisu. Moeka is completely alone. Whoever is more the 'victim' here it is clear that Okabe has more of himself to give out to others. In the end, I'm hardly 'praising' or saying Moeka is admirable here either. So if you want to say that both of them are simply equally misfortunate, and that's all either of them are: victims, then go right ahead, I won't argue. Just don't pick one of them over the other. Quote:
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2011-08-11, 17:15 | Link #156 |
RUN, YOU FOOLS!
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Formerly Iwakawa base and Chaldea. Now Teyvat, the Astral Express & the Outpost
Age: 44
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This debacle might have NEVER been dragged on for so long if you did NOT bring it up in the first place. Your words basically implied that the whole board is populated with male chauvinists who are no better, if not worse, than the Anonymii. Where have you seen the "HELL YES!!! HE PUNCHED HER!!!!" kind of posts? And seriously, don't you think we have our eyes on the more important issues, which are "What is in the real D-mail? Where is the godamn IBN? Who the hell is FB?" The punch did not do much for me, I WANTED to know the godamn message that Okabe have to undo. So, no, I didn't care about Oh Japan is sexually backward that it is okay to punch girls, I only wanted to know where do the story go next.
tl;dr: I did not care, I don't care, I WILL NOT care because all that matters to me is the story and to see how far Okabe will go to reach his happy/bittersweet end. But if you feel like hijacking the topic to male chauvinism because you think it is of vital importance for the future of society, I will start caring, in a very bad way. |
2011-08-11, 17:27 | Link #157 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Age: 35
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2011-08-11, 17:29 | Link #158 | |
Bittersweet Distractor
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 32
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Again, why does it matter what is distressing to Moeka? If you aren't willing to hold her accountable for her actions in other timelines then I can turn the argument around on you and say this. What Okabe does to her does not matter because in the end he is going to change it into a time line where their little skirmish didn't happen in the first place!
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2011-08-11, 17:36 | Link #159 |
Last Engage
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Florida
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And yet you're going out of your way to respond to my somewhat inconclusive but earnest attempt to explain to the rest of the board why I felt the way I did. An attempt that only came about after a day or so of looking up articles related to all the societal implications and trying to figure out what, specifically about it that might have angered so many people. I'm trying to be reasonable, and I'm fully aware and willing to apologize for starting this tangent. On the other hand, why should I apologize for starting a debate? Debate, under the right conditions, can be healthy.
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2011-08-11, 17:43 | Link #160 | ||
On a mission
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Either you are a master martial artist, in which case, you should know that amateurs should not casually do these to people except in case of extreme emergency and tons of practice or you have no idea of these things at all, and are trivializing the years of training that soldiers, police officers, and martial artists need to properly restrain someone. It does not matter if you are stronger and more agile to someone if they adequately resist. Beating the shit out of them is easy, but restraining them when they are resisting without severely hurting them is not as easy as you put up to be. In any case, I am very glad Okabe didn't take advice from you otherwise we'd have to reset several times. Quote:
And hey, results speak. Giving Moeka a chance to know the truth and perhaps not off herself. Hmm, I think stopping someone from killing themselves, that counts as empathy, does it?
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