[Manga] Claymore Chapter 78 Discussion

[Anh_Minh]

Questions:
- what does Miata mean by "strong"? Is Yuma in the same league as her?
- would Yuma be able to beat Rachel or Audrey?

[tenken627]

Clare is a lone wolf no doubt. Before Pieta, the only people that she actually truly cared for in her life (after her family was killed) was Teresa, Elena, and Raki. That's it. After her family died, she's led a pretty solitary life. It's no surprise she doesn't really talk about her past to anyone.

Raki, as dear as he is to Clare, doesn't even know about Teresa or Priscilla.

She just doesn't let anyone get to close to her, her walls have been up for too long. Anyone else that knows even a glimmer about her past know about it because either:

1) they happened to be there when a particular event happened (Irene being there when Priscilla killed Teresa)

2) they were asked questions by Clare or were there when the questions were asked (Riful being questioned by Clare, Galatea overhearing Clare questioning Riful)

3) they shared a common history and enmity towards Priscilla for personal reasons (Ophelia and Clare)

4) they were the MiB and know all about Clare's past

It's not like she gives out her past information freely. To anyone.

[tenken627]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Clare is pretty selfless, so I don't think she cares who kills Priscilla as long as Priscilla dies.

I'm not sure. During the fight with Awakened Ophelia, Clare was saying how it will be her that will take the life of the One Horned Monster. I think she wants to be the one to kill Priscilla above all else. Her entire existence from Teresa's death to the present has revolved around finding Priscilla, including becoming a Claymore.

[tenken627]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Questions:
- what does Miata mean by "strong"? Is Yuma in the same league as her?
- would Yuma be able to beat Rachel or Audrey?

Yuma has Gatotsu.

[Tempest35]

Those are deep questions to be asking about a child's opinion...

Seriously though, I think Miata was generalizing the 'strong' remark. Since she wasn't using youki-dar, how could she tell?

Before they decloaked, she saw Clare speak the objective and each of the fighters took out a leg on their own without being told which one to target. They also did it in unison - not allowing even a moment for a defense or counterattack of any kind.

And after they decloaked, Miata saw more evidence that these warriors were strong: By the way they held their swords and their stances, the calm yet serious light in their eyes. No smell of fear, trepidation, or even hesitation (for Yuma, this is a grand accomplishment in its own right ) - they knew their respective roles and they got to work immediately.

As for Yuma beating Audrey and Rachel - personally, I don't think so. She probably has the power to overcome many a warrior up to rank 14...but that's just me.

[hell88]

The only ones in the group that can beat Audrey and Rachel are probably Clare and Miria, and they would be ably to do it quick, I think Helen and Deneve can too but mabye with a bit more difficulty.

[tenken627]

Well, 7 years of intense training in isolation in the frozen desolate North could dramatically increase someone's strength.

Clare picked up the Windcutter. Miria picked up a new way to pick up her speed without using yoki and is able to use it unlimited times. Deneve learned how to use the two sword style and augment her strength. Helen picked up Jean's Drill Blade.

I'm pretty sure that Cynthia, Tabitha, and Yuma also learned new abilities or were able to enhance their physical or yoki strengths, during the 7 years.

Unless those 3 liked splashing around in hot springs a lot more than the previous 4.

How long is the average Claymore lifespan?

It seems like a new generation pops out every 5-10 years?

I know Claymore ranks include members from different generations, but you get the impression that they don't last very long. It seems like Claymores often die, awaken or are somehow removed from Claymore ranks before reaching the ultimate limit of their potential.

7 years might seem like a large part of a lifetime to the average Claymore.

[hell88]

Cynthia, Tabitha, and Yuma do seem like the type to splash around in hot springs rather than train with the others. Lol

[tenken627]

Originally Posted by hell88

Cynthia, Tabitha, and Yuma do seem like the type to splash around in hot springs rather than train with the others. Lol

That's not necessarily a bad thing.

[hell88]

Originally Posted by tenken627

That's not necessarily a bad thing.

Never said it was, mabye it will be in the next extra chapter.

[tenken627]

Well, I'm not sure how strong Tabitha's "God-Eye" power was before the 7 year time skip, but she seems to have it fairly well developed by the time they fight Agatha. She might not have Galatea's range, but she serves pretty decently as the Ghosts' Eye. She was a former rank 31, so I'm assuming her yoki-sensing ability has greatly enhanced from pre to post time skip.

Cynthia was supposed to be pretty strong in the first place. She was rank #14, supposedly stronger than Deneve (rank 15). It was her and her team's leader, Veronica (rank 13), that had the finishing blow on one of the early ABs in Pieta. Deneve and Helen half-awakened in the past to give them a power boost while Cynthia never had, but she could potentially have much greater power than either of them. She's probably much stronger than any of Clarice's generation's rank #14 and below.

Yuma is tricky. Not much right now can be told of her current power (used to be rank #40), and she's the baby of the Ghosts. She looks up to everyone else and has a subservient attitude; eager to please. Who knows how her current power stacks up to other Claymores. Maybe she really does have Gatotsu!

[hell88]

Now that I think about it, Helen is probably the one that did less training than everyone else. She probably lightend the mood most of the time.

[etothex]

Cynthia is most definitely stronger than a current generation #14. 7 years of training should justify that conclusion. The ones to wonder about are Tabitha and Yuma, but the others 5 girls are obviously ranked somewhere in the single digits. It's hard to gauge how strong the girls might be in relation to Audrey and Rachel, but i think it's pretty safe to say the Fab 4 would make mince meat of #3 and #5. They were able to discern Riful's true power instantly although Clare is the only reader type. Understanding strength is the first step to being strong and all that. As a side note, it appeared Yuma wasn't able to accurately assess Riful's strength, and Tabitha is a read-type so that doesn't tell us much.

I don't see Rachel's brute strength as something the 4 would have problems with in a duel, but Audrey's gentle sword style might be a bit harder to assess, though mostly for Deneve, who is a defensive type. We've seen Jean use drill sword to knock swords away (against Deneve when first meeting at Pieta), so I think Helen should be able to use that to create an opening pretty much whenever she meets another warrior sword to sword. The rapid rotation should effectively negate Audrey's style of using minimal effort to guide an opponent's attack elsewhere.

@Hell88 yeah Helen is probably the one that drags Cynthia, Tabitha, and Yuma off to the hot springs.

[tenken627]

I wonder how strong Lune's God Eye ability is compared to Galatea and Tabitha.

Galatea was a former #3, and Lune can be no higher than #6, Galatea was a pretty decent fighter as well.

[tenken627]

Originally Posted by tenken627

How long is the average Claymore lifespan?

It seems like a new generation pops out every 5-10 years?

I know Claymore ranks include members from different generations, but you get the impression that they don't last very long. It seems like Claymores often die, awaken or are somehow removed from Claymore ranks before reaching the ultimate limit of their potential.

7 years might seem like a large part of a lifetime to the average Claymore.

Going back to the lifespan of a Claymore, the organization does not like old Claymores. If a Claymore stays alive for a certain amount of time, it seems like they are sent on suicide missions or "taken care" of in another way. Once a Claymore becomes "troublesome" or even "curious", they are dealt with. The less a Claymore knows, the better.

So, it could be about what, maybe at most 10-15 years from graduation to a Claymore's death? Maybe shorter?

Assuming that graduation takes place when a girl is around 16 years old (Clare and Miata seem to be exceptions), that would make a Claymore around 26-31 years old when they are taken care of?

[LeftX]

I don't think we can assume that they graduate at around 16 or that Clare was an exception. The only evidence we have of graduation age is Clare and she seemed to be the same age as everyone else taking her test. We also have evidence of claymores that look younger than 16 (Miata, Riful, Pricilla).

I would say the graduation age is closer to 13 or 14. I would also contend that the reason why all remaining living claymores weren't sent to Pieta and why we didn't see any young ones there is because they were the ones the org chose to not kill off.

[tenken627]

Originally Posted by LeftX

I don't think we can assume that they graduate at around 16 or that Clare was an exception. The only evidence we have of graduation age is Clare and she seemed to be the same age as everyone else taking her test. We also have evidence of claymores that look younger than 16 (Miata, Riful, Pricilla).

I would say the graduation age is closer to 13 or 14.

Well, Clare herself said she was one who joined the organization very young when she was telling Raki about Elena. Elena was the only one who befriended her during training because she was so young.

And although girls develop at different times, Clare was of smaller stature and looked younger than the other girls during their final test.

Riful was from the first generation of female Claymores. Traditions haven't been set yet. She was the youngest ever Claymore to be #1. I think we can assume that Teresa graduated at an older age because Claymores usually graduated later than Riful did. I don't think Teresa was ever a Claymore with a lower rank (Rosemary lost her #1 status as soon as Teresa appeared).

I can see Priscilla being 16. She was basically a brand new rookie, and looked much younger than the more mature Teresa, Irene, Noel and Sofia. 16 year old girls look very, very young standing next to early to mid 20 year old women.

It seems like Awakening keeps the person looking like the exact age as when they awakened. Riful still looks like a little girl. Priscilla hasn't matured and looks the same during Teresa's time as she did up to the point of the Isley-Luciela fight. While Claymores don't age, they do mature. Priscilla certainly looks 16 during her time with Raki.

Originally Posted by LeftX

I would also contend that the reason why all remaining living claymores weren't sent to Pieta and why we didn't see any young ones there is because they were the ones the org chose to not kill off.

Pieta happened because Isley was forming an AB army and the organization needed to stall some time to complete Alicia before Isley attacked. They just decided to use their most expendable or troublesome Claymores.

If Isley never made a move, the same troublesome Claymores that were sent North would probably be sent out in smaller groups on different suicide missions or taken care of in a different manner.

[LeftX]

Just because Clare entered the org young doesn't mean she graduates early. I don't think it's like high school where you do your 4 years and then set out into the world. Remember they took Alicia and Beth as babies. I think it's more like the foster care system where by a certain age they let you out.

I think Priscilla was actually younger than 16. Most females have reached their adult height by 16. If that were the case, then Priscilla is a really short claymore.

5'5" - Priscilla
5'7" - Clare, Elena
5'9" - Miria, Helen, Deneve, Ophelia, Noel, Sophia, Raphaela, Jean, Undine
5'11" - Teresa, Irene, Alicia, Beth, Flora
6'1" - Galatea

The average height of adult claymores is over 5'9". I would also argue that when we first met Elena and Clare in the series, she herself had not reached her final adult height either given how much we've witness how much room she had for development and after the 7 year skip, we see her toe-to-toe with Miria where they are the same height. I think in chapter 1, Clare is about 16. Priscilla when we saw her as a rookie, I would say is 14, maybe 15.

[khryoleoz]

Originally Posted by tenken627

I'm not sure. During the fight with Awakened Ophelia, Clare was saying how it will be her that will take the life of the One Horned Monster. I think she wants to be the one to kill Priscilla above all else. Her entire existence from Teresa's death to the present has revolved around finding Priscilla, including becoming a Claymore.

I'd forgotten that Clare emphatically said that to Ophelia. I'm not exactly disagreeing. There is a finer point in that Ophelia had already awakened, so Clare in saying that might have meant that only she was qualified between them two with regard to there being some higher value to Priscilla being put down by a human (so to speak) rather than another monster. It doesn't necessarily mean that Clare was unwilling to let anybody else who was "as qualified" put Priscilla down.

Now that said, even if Clare was not unwilling to let someone else who can do it kill Priscilla, I believe that Clare does have a definite preference towards herself being the very one to do it. She hasn't met anyone who had ambitions to kill Priscilla since Ophelia, now long dead. So as far as she knows, she is the only one upon whom that mission was appointed, even if that appointment was self-given.

Originally Posted by tenken627

Yuma has Gatotsu.

Well, there's no denying that anybody who has Gatotsu is unbeatable. But I think I'd rather give it to someone whose justice is that for which Gatotsu was designed. Only one member of the group so far demonstrates the temperament for Gatotsu, which temperament is guided by the notion of slaying evil immediately, expressed in her pursuit of Priscilla.

[LeftX]

If you look at the top panel of page 14 of the fourth extra story, there's no way those girls are 16. Several of them are really lacking in the chest area. Every girl I knew had boobs by the age of 16.