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View Poll Results: F/SN UBW TV - Episode 12 Rating | |||
Perfect 10 | 43 | 56.58% | |
9 out of 10 : Excellent | 28 | 36.84% | |
8 out of 10 : Very Good | 2 | 2.63% | |
7 out of 10 : Good | 2 | 2.63% | |
6 out of 10 : Average | 0 | 0% | |
5 out of 10 : Below Average | 0 | 0% | |
4 out of 10 : Poor | 1 | 1.32% | |
3 out of 10 : Bad | 0 | 0% | |
2 out of 10 : Very Bad | 0 | 0% | |
1 out of 10 : Painful | 0 | 0% | |
Voters: 76. You may not vote on this poll |
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2014-12-29, 16:03 | Link #121 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
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It's obvious there were no good option, point is anything is better choice than giving Saber to caster on silver plate and all of them on her mercy. And for surprise attacks I think Rin didn't hear about that...
Above listed options have low chance for success, but low chance is better than nothing.
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2014-12-29, 16:09 | Link #122 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2014
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I know that there were no good options in that hostage situation. The problem was that Shirou and the gang was extremely limited in the position they was in (I believe LorHand had provide an example from the VN), and it just makes me wonder if most of the audiences realize this fact.
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2014-12-29, 16:13 | Link #123 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Age: 38
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2014-12-29, 16:29 | Link #124 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
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Accomplishing everything positive and nothing negative... Yeah that sound exactly like ssomething Shiro would try.
If we really wanted "best choice" it would be obviously sacrifice Taiga and excaliblast Caster into oblivion. But we take Shiro perspective for this one, doesn't we?
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2014-12-29, 16:54 | Link #125 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2014
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2014-12-29, 17:42 | Link #127 | |||||||
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2014
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You (and a couple others) must be misunderstanding something here. I should have made this more clear in my first post. I meant that Shirou's actions were completely moronic within the context of the situation, which include Shirou's own mindset. In other words, Shirou's decisions and choices were incredibly counterproductive to what he wanted to accomplish given his personality, ideals, and current situation. Your reasoning can't be used as justification for Shirou's actions because it never would have crossed Shirou's mind. According to his ideals, Shirou's objectives should have been to save Taiga without any negative fallout to anyone around him (i.e. Saber, Rin, and citizens of Fuyuki City). Almost willingly giving Saber away directly goes against his objectives and the fact that Shirou thought that it was the best solution was completely idiotic. Quote:
Yeah. It's a pretty paralyzing situation with no good choices, but if it came down to it, personally I'd take my chances with ordering the cop to shoot than handing the terrorist the weapons he was demanding, which the terrorist would then use to kill everyone, including my fiancée. Pretty cold-hearted, but hell if I'm going to intentionally put another one of my loved ones in a completely futile effort to protect one who is guaranteed to die. But that's not really the point. With real people who are far more self-interested, it's perfectly understandable why they would want to cave completely in a hostage situation. But as I said above, we're talking about Shirou whose stated goal is to be a goddamn superhero. The choice he made was absolutely the worst he could have made given his goals. Quote:
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Shirou didn't want to, so he didn't. Call it what you will, but it's pride. Maybe not arrogance, but definitely pride. Quote:
What Archer did was what Shirou potentially could have done had he been a bit smarter. Oh, and it wasn't like Shirou knew that Caster was Medea, the ultimate betrayer, at that point. Quote:
Nope. That makes no sense. It would make a lot more sense if Shirou were a normal selfish person who cared more those close to him even at the expense of others. However, we know that UBW Shirou isn't like that so his decision to screw Saber over is a major reason why this is such a face-palm moment. It was like mixing the motivations of a HF Shirou with the complete naiveté of a Fate Shirou. Quote:
But seriously, *rolls eyes* don't talk as if I'm talking about a real person. First of all, I was talking about an anime character and second, I was using that anime character's own standards to judge him by & not my own. |
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2014-12-29, 18:06 | Link #128 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2014
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2014-12-29, 21:08 | Link #129 | ||||||||
The Unpronounceable
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Clock Tower
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My idea had nothing to do with Shirou's well being. Saber protecting Shirou have nothing to do with it either, since that's who she is: She will jump to Shirou's defense if she feels she need to. In context? Sure. Including Shirou's own mindset? Not really. Shirou's primary goal is to save people. He didn't think of later on, he only focus on saving people in the here and now no matter the consequences. Quote:
He only had 2 choices at that time, all forced by Caster: Give Saber over or watch Taiga die. And for Shirou - who focus more on saving people - the former is more acceptable. Quote:
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ANd that's not taking into account the fact that Archer is decades older, have a lot of experiences. got an entirely different mindset altogether and got things like Eye of the Mind (true) to help him. Quote:
As for why, I've already said my piece above. Quote:
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But let's just agree to disagree before things get too heated.
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2014-12-29, 23:09 | Link #130 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
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Why are you all blaming Shirou about what happened? The most irresponsible party was Rin who left her Servant behind to fool around in middle of a conflict. It's exactly what she scolded Shirou he shouldn't do as Master in the beginning and in a show of hypocrisy she does that, knowing well Saber sometimes isn't enough to protect both of them. I know this is a cute bishoujo VN, but the date scene was completely out of place in that route. I could stomach it in Fate (as bleary it was going through thirty minutes of stuffed toys shopping) because Shirou wouldn't have another chance with Saber (and he's an amateur) and I was grateful Heaven's Feel was spared of that unnecessary interlude, but Rin going on about "having fun" when it could have waited until this was over was completely out of character and shoehorned into the story.
I don't even blame Rin, I blame Nasu's forced romance add ons that make the characters act stupid and out of character. This was Rin's equivalent of "Girls shouldn't fight" and "but you're a girl" remarks from Shirou to Saber that were also forced.
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Last edited by Thess; 2014-12-29 at 23:20. |
2014-12-29, 23:30 | Link #131 |
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2006
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This really didn't feel much like a seasonal finale despite the double episode. In fact it was somehow fairly typical to me even with Saber switching mainly because it came as a result of Shirou screwing up as usual like he's been doing most of this run. It's not a bad episode (Kirei finally doing something was main highlight), but it lacked climatic finish I was expecting since this consisted of mostly talking heads. So at best I'm rather left with a lukewarm feeling.
At least the preview for season 2, looked nice and hopefully rest of the forgotten cast plays a bigger role there. Because to be honest it doesn't seem like a whole lot of significance happened during these 12 episodes when you sit back and reflect on it awhile. With that in mind UBW hovers around a 7.75/10 for me, but I'll round it up due to the high production values, so 8/10. |
2014-12-30, 05:41 | Link #133 | ||
My turn
Join Date: Feb 2012
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The misstep was not knowing about Rule Breaker's existence, but oh well. |
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2014-12-30, 06:14 | Link #134 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
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2014-12-30, 07:22 | Link #135 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
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It goes against Rin's established character and it only exists for the sake of out of place fanservice. A better place for this date would been during the true ending which was boring as hell school-sequence anyway, so the change of scenario and showing Rin and Shirou as couple would have been a good change with Rin inviting Shirou to London as they ate. Add Saber in the Good End and get identical match.
But ignore me and try to use logic. Nasu is good to create settings and characters but he fails when he tries to force romance to a story that simply has no room for it to be a focus and that's why some scenes come as unnatural. UBW date is one of them, not for the date itself, but for the timing it happened.
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2014-12-30, 07:36 | Link #136 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
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thing is, Rins actions often contradict her previous statements or what she thinks she is, don't they ?
like how she thinks she is or wants to be this cold clinical magus, but she isn't that at all dem pesky emotions get in the way all the time with her I agree that not having Archer as bodyguard is kind of lax, but I suppose: 1) this was a date and Archer would've been the "fourth wheel" 2) maybe she still didn't want him around Shirou ? also, they didn't expect a hostage situation at all
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2014-12-30, 09:33 | Link #138 | |
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2006
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That said, I felt this whole scene kinda contrived in how it happened mainly because Archer was separated so easily from the group. Ironic since Rin is one who always berating Shriou for walking around without his servant being close by. |
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2014-12-30, 10:11 | Link #140 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
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Agreed with the last part, but disagreed with the first part. If we go by what have shown, it's not far that Rin would pull something like this just to tease and make fun of Shirou. But timing and length is what made this so hard to watch through. |
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