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Old 2013-08-08, 14:44   Link #5761
willx
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Originally Posted by Rava View Post
That's because the more info we find out about Leo, the less likely it seems that the other students are his equal when it comes to combat (and solely combat). Basically, the series sets him up that way so that they can use him for the Worf Effect (TVTropes link warning) later.
Hm, it depends on what you refer to as combat .. 1) he would've been drilled full of holes during the Yokohama incident if Tatsuya didn't stop him, 2) [at least to me] he doesn't seem like he could beat any of the talented girls in Tatsuya's group or even a capable "Bloom" in a 1v1 fight in the same circumstances as Tatsuya & Hattori, 3) he doesn't come off as particularly strong during Monolith Code and 4) the currently translated bits seems to indicate he gets beat up by the Vampire - but I get the trope reference

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Originally Posted by ReaperxKingx View Post
I hope your last question is applying towards the setting of series. If you are talking about reality, then I feel very insulted.
Sorry? I'm not sure how what I said is insulting though -- I'm paraphrasing and summarizing (and drawing an analogy) with what Tatsuya himself says in V2C7:

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Old 2013-08-08, 15:21   Link #5762
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Originally Posted by willx View Post
Hm, it depends on what you refer to as combat .. 1) he would've been drilled full of holes during the Yokohama incident if Tatsuya didn't stop him, 2) [at least to me] he doesn't seem like he could beat any of the talented girls in Tatsuya's group or even a capable "Bloom" in a 1v1 fight in the same circumstances as Tatsuya & Hattori, 3) he doesn't come off as particularly strong during Monolith Code and 4) the currently translated bits seems to indicate he gets beat up by the Vampire - but I get the trope reference



Sorry? I'm not sure how what I said is insulting though -- I'm paraphrasing and summarizing (and drawing an analogy) with what Tatsuya himself says in V2C7:

Spoiler for Quote:
Well you already answered my question. If you were referring to this series, I don't mind it a bit. Reality is a different story however as anyone can surpass anyone whether they have innate qualities or not, it depends how much one puts in and how successful it becomes.
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Old 2013-08-08, 17:34   Link #5763
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Originally Posted by ReaperxKingx View Post
Well you already answered my question. If you were referring to this series, I don't mind it a bit. Reality is a different story however as anyone can surpass anyone whether they have innate qualities or not, it depends how much one puts in and how successful it becomes.
Ah, well manga aside, I'm not sure I agree with that statement .. but that's a discussion unrelated to this manga..

So I'm actually curious if the author is going to include Morisaki back into the story at all at any point. It feels like if he was going to be "redeemed" the way Hattori was .. it would've happened by now? The fact that he hasn't graduated yet though and has been excluded from the Student Council should realistically mean he should have some screen time.. how odd?
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Old 2013-08-08, 18:31   Link #5764
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Originally Posted by willx View Post
Hm, it depends on what you refer to as combat .. 1) he would've been drilled full of holes during the Yokohama incident if Tatsuya didn't stop him, 2) [at least to me] he doesn't seem like he could beat any of the talented girls in Tatsuya's group or even a capable "Bloom" in a 1v1 fight in the same circumstances as Tatsuya & Hattori, 3) he doesn't come off as particularly strong during Monolith Code and 4) the currently translated bits seems to indicate he gets beat up by the Vampire - but I get the trope reference
1: All of them (short of Tatsuya) would have ended up drilled full of holes in that incident, not just Leo. That's why Miyuki had to disable the guns first before anyone could step out. Being good at combat doesn't mean I expect him to survive getting hit by a rocket launcher, for example.

2: The "other students" refers to anyone outside of Tatsuya's hand picked harem/group. If you wanted to talk about the people IN the group, I expect he'd lose to Erika and Lina easily, Honoka possibly (because certain light-themed magics are really evil against someone like Leo) and Shizuku maybe.

3: Yet again, he's NOT allowed to engage in melee combat at ALL in Monolith Code. And Leo's primary attack method is through melee combat. You ignore this each time you complain that he looked weak in Monolith Code. Complaining that he looked weak because he can't engage in melee combat is like complaining that a sharpshooter who can't use his gun stinks at combat. The fact that he's still able to hold on despite the massive handicap he's got to deal with actually reinforces the fact that his combat prowess is extraordinary.

4: Yes, it does. The whole point of the Worf Effect is that you have someone who is considered strong defeated by an unknown to illustrate how strong the enemy is. As long as it's not overused, it's fine as a storytelling device.
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Old 2013-08-08, 20:26   Link #5765
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Originally Posted by willx View Post
Just for accuracy's sake here .. starting from a distance, there's no way Morisaki would lose to Leo. Taking nothing else into account, assuming "pistols at dawn" mode -- Morisaki would win hands down -- he's not known for his "quick draw" for nothing.

That said, Leo is agile and would do very well in the police force or in a jungle warfare setting, he's also agile like a beast and all that .. but keep in mind during the 9-schools competition, when faced with opponents at range, his only option was to use the mini-communicator to give him a ranged weapon. In one match the author even states that Leo was being overwhelmed and preparing to throw his last bit of strength into an all out defense of the Monolith.

It's a tough pill to swallow, but innate ability is innate, you can learn tactics and acquire knowledge to strengthen your abilities and cover your weaknesses .. but the idea of innate talent is a theme in this light novel. The world isn't fair after all y'know! (Don't get me started on Sayaka and her retarded magic infused kunai.. seriously?)

starting from a distance, input a Speed Ability Magic,
keep their distance , shot shot shot.
keep their distance , shot shot shot.
we can see who endure to the end.
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Old 2013-08-09, 09:09   Link #5766
willx
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Originally Posted by Rava View Post
3: Yet again, he's NOT allowed to engage in melee combat at ALL in Monolith Code. And Leo's primary attack method is through melee combat. You ignore this each time you complain that he looked weak in Monolith Code. Complaining that he looked weak because he can't engage in melee combat is like complaining that a sharpshooter who can't use his gun stinks at combat. The fact that he's still able to hold on despite the massive handicap he's got to deal with actually reinforces the fact that his combat prowess is extraordinary.
Carefully read what I'm saying. I am not complaining -- I really don't care if Leo is weak or not. In fact, I'd disagree with you about him being weak in Monolith Code, the mini-communicator actually gives him ranged attacks while using melee while limiting the maximum attack power that his enemies could use, so I'd argue that he's actually stronger during that competition than otherwise.

Overall what I'm saying is thus, in this world, at this time, all magicians are basically considered "weapons" -- for any "talented magician" (Bloom?) To beat Leo is simple -- you cast faster than him, have stronger phenomenon re-writing ability than him, more interference strength than him .. without moving as fast as Tatsuya & Erika (fast enough to lose magical targeting) he'll immediately get knocked out. Leo will obviously beat you if you start in very close range or if you underestimate him .. but I just don't see the evidence to support what some other people are saying about how Leo could beat other magicians, let alone, Morisaki.
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Old 2013-08-09, 10:53   Link #5767
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Originally Posted by willx View Post
Carefully read what I'm saying. I am not complaining -- I really don't care if Leo is weak or not. In fact, I'd disagree with you about him being weak in Monolith Code, the mini-communicator actually gives him ranged attacks while using melee while limiting the maximum attack power that his enemies could use, so I'd argue that he's actually stronger during that competition than otherwise.

Overall what I'm saying is thus, in this world, at this time, all magicians are basically considered "weapons" -- for any "talented magician" (Bloom?) To beat Leo is simple -- you cast faster than him, have stronger phenomenon re-writing ability than him, more interference strength than him .. without moving as fast as Tatsuya & Erika (fast enough to lose magical targeting) he'll immediately get knocked out. Leo will obviously beat you if you start in very close range or if you underestimate him .. but I just don't see the evidence to support what some other people are saying about how Leo could beat other magicians, let alone, Morisaki.
You kind of gave the answer to why Morisaki would lose to Leo, which that he will underestimate every Course 2 student. As for Leo, I don't think we seen the full extent of the results from the training Erika gave to him. My argument is not a magical duel or sort, my argument is full combat. If it was a battle of magic or magic events, Leo of course would lose.
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Old 2013-08-09, 11:45   Link #5768
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I'd like to make a small addition to this argument about Leo vs. Morisaki. The assumption here is that the engagement takes place at around 10 meters, give or take, correct? Doesn't Leo's Dragonfly Wing blade extend more than twice that?
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Old 2013-08-09, 11:58   Link #5769
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I'd like to make a small addition to this argument about Leo vs. Morisaki. The assumption here is that the engagement takes place at around 10 meters, give or take, correct? Doesn't Leo's Dragonfly Wing blade extend more than twice that?
There is this confusion about magic which I'm not sure people get .. or maybe I myself am misunderstanding this .. but yes his blade extends .. but it requires his magic to do that. Logically speaking Morisaki's magic casting speed and interference strength should be able to simply stop the magic from fortifying the blade.

Leo's own innate data fortification for his own body would prevent Morisaki from halting self-acceleration or fortification magic, but that wouldn't extend to his weapon.. let alone if Morisaki could do what Hattori intended to do to Tatsuya and immediately KO him..
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Old 2013-08-09, 14:29   Link #5770
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There is this confusion about magic which I'm not sure people get .. or maybe I myself am misunderstanding this .. but yes his blade extends .. but it requires his magic to do that. Logically speaking Morisaki's magic casting speed and interference strength should be able to simply stop the magic from fortifying the blade.

Leo's own innate data fortification for his own body would prevent Morisaki from halting self-acceleration or fortification magic, but that wouldn't extend to his weapon.. let alone if Morisaki could do what Hattori intended to do to Tatsuya and immediately KO him..
You're misunderstanding because the Fortifying magic is used to sustain the blade, not create/extend it. It's just harder to sustain the Fortifying magic on a bigger blade, which makes sense, but he has no issues with a 10 foot one. Given how automatic it has been when he's demonstrated it, there's been no indication that he has to do anything more than pump psions into the sword like with Engraving magic and Erika's baton CAD, where the Magic Sequence is already built into the sword and just needs Psions to power it.
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Old 2013-08-09, 14:59   Link #5771
willx
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Actually, no I'm not misunderstanding the function of the weapon -- it extends carbon nanotubes which due to fortifying magic turns it into a blade. Without the fortifying magic it would just be a super thin weak string. As for your understanding about it storing a magic sequence .. no, that's not how it works. The only item that has even been mentioned of possibly being able to "store magic sequences" is the Magatama relic during the Yokohama arc.

The sword that Leo uses is a weaponized integrated CAD which is kind of actually very similar to the mini-communicator. It may possibly only store one specific activation sequence but otherwise still requires the magician to invoke the magic. In fact, without the loop cast system embedded into it (since Tatsuya never experimented on it) it would probably require significant concentration and skill to upkeep. Remember at least in Erika's case she only applies magic at the moment of impact.
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Old 2013-08-09, 17:36   Link #5772
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is there any summary for volume 10?
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Old 2013-08-09, 19:30   Link #5773
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is there any summary for volume 10?
Well the chinese translation in baidu is complete. Baka-tsuki just finish chapter 10 of the english translation.
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Old 2013-08-10, 00:19   Link #5774
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Originally Posted by willx View Post
Actually, no I'm not misunderstanding the function of the weapon -- it extends carbon nanotubes which due to fortifying magic turns it into a blade. Without the fortifying magic it would just be a super thin weak string. As for your understanding about it storing a magic sequence .. no, that's not how it works. The only item that has even been mentioned of possibly being able to "store magic sequences" is the Magatama relic during the Yokohama arc.

The sword that Leo uses is a weaponized integrated CAD which is kind of actually very similar to the mini-communicator. It may possibly only store one specific activation sequence but otherwise still requires the magician to invoke the magic. In fact, without the loop cast system embedded into it (since Tatsuya never experimented on it) it would probably require significant concentration and skill to upkeep. Remember at least in Erika's case she only applies magic at the moment of impact.
Er, aren't weaponized CADs extremely fast because they only store a single sequence?
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Old 2013-08-10, 01:30   Link #5775
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here is the news about Mahouka
credited by Mattdamon from Jcafe24

Quote:
here is the news about Mahouka
Credited by -Oilman
*mahouka novel volume 11 coming to japanese stores which marks the end of the 1st year and a short story about mayumi.
BTW if you go and buy the volume from the bookstore in the link you'll get exclusive extra cover only from there(thanks to Victoria Lim for sharing the info with the page).

*dengeki bunko's newest issue is out in stores within it the 6th and last part of double seven story (which is the first story in the 2nd year).

*the 12th volume coming out date is October 10th of this year

*miyuki is going to have a dakimakura (hug pillow).
the pre-order (from dengeki site)is till September 17th the product will be delivered (for japan only) in the last third of October this year.

unrelated directly but felt to share it anyhow
sword art online 13th volume is out in stores as will.
also SAO will have a NEW anime program called extra edition
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Old 2013-08-10, 01:40   Link #5776
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here is the news about Mahouka
credited by Mattdamon from Jcafe24
..........My brain stopped at "Miyuki hug pillow".
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Old 2013-08-10, 02:10   Link #5777
Seitsuki
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YOU ARE WELCOME


Oogle all you like because she's all mine.
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Old 2013-08-10, 03:26   Link #5778
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YOU ARE WELCOME


Oogle all you like because she's all mine.

The price is 9,000 Yen.
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Old 2013-08-10, 04:05   Link #5779
Rava
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Originally Posted by willx View Post
Actually, no I'm not misunderstanding the function of the weapon -- it extends carbon nanotubes which due to fortifying magic turns it into a blade. Without the fortifying magic it would just be a super thin weak string. As for your understanding about it storing a magic sequence .. no, that's not how it works. The only item that has even been mentioned of possibly being able to "store magic sequences" is the Magatama relic during the Yokohama arc.

The sword that Leo uses is a weaponized integrated CAD which is kind of actually very similar to the mini-communicator. It may possibly only store one specific activation sequence but otherwise still requires the magician to invoke the magic. In fact, without the loop cast system embedded into it (since Tatsuya never experimented on it) it would probably require significant concentration and skill to upkeep. Remember at least in Erika's case she only applies magic at the moment of impact.
Why don't you show me where I said "store magic sequence" there?

Oh right, because I didn't.

I said built into the sword like with Engraving magic. We know this is a valid method for magical weapon construction because Erika's baton CAD uses Engraving magic to power it, and it has absolutely nothing to do with the Magatama. Does Leo's sword use that method? I don't know, but it's certainly a valid theory.
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Old 2013-08-10, 04:11   Link #5780
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Guys , got pictures of novel vol 11
credited by Mattdamon from jcafe24
Quote:
Guys , got some pics of novel vol 11
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