2010-12-04, 17:43 | Link #1081 |
Goat Herder
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Join Date: Jun 2008
Age: 36
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To be fair, ZAFT isn't a conventional military force and doesn't have the typical command structure of traditional militaries, such as the Earth Forces, and it was likely a perk for being part of their elite forces. Still ridiculous, though.
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2010-12-04, 18:20 | Link #1082 |
:3c
Join Date: Jun 2010
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To be fair, as I was just discussing with wzs and another friend, they didn't really even seem to intend for Wing to have any bishietastic elements to it. All that shit (in terms of official art pandering to the base) started coming out LATER in the series' life, once they realized the fandom was starting to take things that way and that they could profit from it.
For example, I have one of the artbooks from the first half of the series, before the 2nd half began (aka that period of time when the clipshows aired). There is nothing fanservicey in this book at all. Take a look at its accompanying second-half book? You can definitely see the difference in how the boys are given the fanservice treatment. Seriously, take a look at the Wingboy character designs. They are not handsome, they are not sparkly, they're goofy looking (imo, anyway). XD I dunno who or where in Japanese fandom started the whole them being bishie thing but if you look at the originals works themselves, there is nuthin' overtly attractive about those character designs. Of course, that's a matter of opinion- but can you honestly look at the source material, without letting personal fantasy brain-heero or brain-duo pop up instead (you know, how they're portrayed in fan works), and say 'OH YEAH I'D DO THAT'. The entire thing with Wing was that Sunrise realized they had a new angle to attack on the merchandising front with a side of fandom they'd never really dealt with before, and they milked it for all it was worth. But they did not seem to intend that angle from the start. |
2010-12-04, 18:23 | Link #1083 |
Tobi is a Good Boy!
Join Date: Nov 2010
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[QUOTE=MichaelKnight;3375721]All I know is that Wing is an awesome anime that has a little bit of everything. Yes it's action, yes it's sci-fi, yes it's political, warfare, betrayal. It also has romance and drama. And heck if they didn't have Duo they wouldn't have a little bit of comedy as well. It's a classic anime. 90's was the best. No fanservice too. Wow. I mean, yeah it has its WTF moments but hey it was awesome and clearly only mature-minded people like it because of its political twists and blunt revelation of the ugly truth about stupid decisions. Which everyone makes in reality.QUOTE]
100% correct when i was a kid my perspective on plots and deveopment in characters was as limited as watching the early 90's transformers. GDW was like a slap and wakeup call, there was drama. powerstruggle and the naked truth "Howmany people do you think you've hurt since the moment this all began?!! How many have grieved?! how many have suffered?!! you've stepped on so people just to serve your self satisfying dream. everyone suffers!! everone has truth they want to ignore. You are not special you're just like everyone else" Quote Haseo .hack//G.U. GDW may have had a medium reception in japan but it's outside broadcast has definetly made it an instant classic, and frozen teardrop is proff enough that the fanbas is verymuch alive on a side note about dorothy is that even though she was shown as a war hungry girl, it was eventually shown that she is actually afraid of war and heavy malice and will ANYTHING to stop war. Which was why she gave relena the gun to shoot milliardo and why she reacted so badly when milliardo refsed the duel between himself and triez for the fate all soldiers and earth and outerspace (believing that a simple duel would not cause a space fight that sadly happened). it should be noted that dorathy and relena's reletionship was hardly hinted as friendship and might not have been anything other than an aqaintance or former student for a peace politican. and there has to be more reson or apparant evidence to why she tarted operation mythos, if her fears are to be taken to the lenght of war/masacre phobia. |
2010-12-04, 18:39 | Link #1084 | |
Faaarrrkkkkk
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: The land down under.
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I don't know man. S/SD had the potential to be great, I mean with its plot and everything but the DRAMA disgusted me. It was too emphasised and stressed on. WTF. Too much screen time for crying, deep thoughts and flashbacks. I admire women... but a woman writing for a Gundam series could be not be such a good thing especially if she makes it all about what ONLY SHE prefers. *eyeroll*
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2010-12-04, 18:49 | Link #1085 |
Faaarrrkkkkk
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: The land down under.
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Oh, yeah. And about the fashion and the boys.
Wing is shounen. Plus it was done in the 90's. So it has no room for fashion. And the boys, I don't think they were intended to be bishie as well. What, Yu Yu Hakusho has awesome character designs. And yet it didn't seem to me like they were showcasing how hot the boys were.
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2010-12-04, 19:20 | Link #1086 | |
:3c
Join Date: Jun 2010
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Wing was- and Gundam in general is- VERY genre-savvy with its use of fashion and historical influences in not just the world building but the character design of its series. To say there is 'no room for fashion' in Gundam is to say there's 'no room for technology' in Gundam. And what, do you think there was no fashion designing going on in the 90's? Of course there was! Just look at the resurgence of Prada, hell even Yohji Yamamoto up and coming in the 90's if you want some Japanese stuff. Please direct your eyes here, then we'll talk: http://kitsoru.livejournal.com/61787.html Considering I'm doing a thesis on the exchange of fashion and character design going on in Japan right now, this is sort of a Big Deal to me. :P (Ignore the half after the uniform comparison images end, that's just Gundam in-joke rambling And I'm sure you all know that already.) Last edited by Kitsoru; 2010-12-04 at 19:33. |
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2010-12-04, 20:04 | Link #1087 | ||||
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Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Europe
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I'll disagree with you on their relationship though. To me it seemed Dorothy was very fond of Relena (not that way). I interpreted her actions as wanting to test Relena or better say her ideals. You're right about Dorothy actually hating war. Her goal was to have a war so big that everyone would be fed up with it (aka loosing people close to them) and stop fighting. That would require a lot of deaths though. Relena's goal was exactly the opposite. Stop the bloodshed by talking sense into the people, all through total pacifism. No one would have to die that way. But that was practically impossible during that time. There were too many arms, too many people who wanted to fight. To me it seemed like Dorothy was challenging Relena with her exclamations of starting a war and loving its beauty. She wanted to see what Relena would do without resorting to violence. She wanted to see if she could change a war-obsessed person through words alone. Like she wanted to believe in the power that the 'powerless' pacifism could have by overcoming obstacles such as the militaristic Romefeller Foundation. Dorothy was impressed when Relena managed to 'save' her country from the foundation by dissolving it, staying true to her ideals. She was even more impressed by her decision pertaining her own brother, when killing him could have saved many lives. It was something like her final test. Relena refused to shoot Milliardo and Dorothy instantly changed her mind and locked her up in her room. To me it was like Dorothy realized, much like Milliardo, Heero and Treize, that a peace-oriented person with such strong will like her would be needed after the war. So she opted to protect her, by keeping her in a safe place. I believe Dorothy shows her true colors already when she informs Noin that Relena is to be assassinated on her way back to Cinq, after the meeting with Dermail and folks. At that time she was a huge thorn in Romefeller's side, so why would Dorothy, granddaughter of Duke Dermail, the chief representative of Romefeller, want to save Relena Peacecraft? Maybe because she didn't want her last hope to die. As for Relena, I think she always understood Dorothy's motives to some extend. After all, she never had trouble trusting her and didn't seem very fazed by her either. And in the movie version of EW it was Dorothy who more or less finished Relena's speech and spurred the people to protest against Mariemaia. So I can picture friendship between these two, even if an odd one. Wow, sorry for the rant. GW leaves a lot of room for interpretation, doesn't it? Now, imagine Relena suddenly going trigger happy and about to start a war... Would Dorothy really kill her? By hiring the guy who has a record of not killing her? xD |
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2010-12-04, 20:10 | Link #1088 | |
Faaarrrkkkkk
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: The land down under.
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Man I'm sorry! Let me clarify what I meant. When I said no room for fashion. I meant the fashion we have right now, 00's. That's why I said "90's" up there. I didn't want to go through it much. That's why it's that short. And that's probably why it lost its point. Sorry!!!! T________T Of course it has its themes: the Romefeller uniforms, Saint Gabriel Institute, Barton Foundation, high-waist jeans, etc. I was just pointing out the boys' clothing because they're the face of Wing. Seriously. That green singlet and stretchable shorts? Come on, Heero. But dude, I love Gundam Wing as much as I love myself and my bank account, I would never say anything that will degrade it.
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Last edited by MichaelKnight; 2010-12-04 at 20:24. Reason: Grammar issues. *facepalm* |
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2010-12-04, 21:14 | Link #1089 | ||
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Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Europe
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That doesn't mean though that every good anime must be hard to follow (or that every anime that is hard to follow is good). I, for example, consider Sunrise's The Vision Of Escaflowne a masterpiece. The plot is simple but the execution is so stunning and marvelous that it leaves a great impact on the viewer. As I said, masterpiece Quote:
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2010-12-04, 21:54 | Link #1090 | ||
Faaarrrkkkkk
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: The land down under.
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And my, my, Escaflowne is one of my faves. AMEN to that. It was very professional. Every element put in was at its perfect amount. No overdoing or lacking whatsoever. But that is just another example to prove my previous point, despite its awesomeness it wasn't popular in Japan but to the West it was one of the bests. Like Wing. Quote:
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2010-12-04, 22:04 | Link #1091 | ||
:3c
Join Date: Jun 2010
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Here's a listing of some of the Wing artbooks: http://aboutgundamwing.com/Merchandi...book_books.htm And here's the one I have. It's the one called The Five G-Boys: http://aboutgundamwing.com/Merchandi.../refbookR1.jpg It's basically a recap of the characters and the first 25ish episodes. I recall shopping around ebay recently looking to buy a new Wing artbook, and some sellers show previews of the insides of the artbooks. It was then that I was noticing that the 'later' artbooks, esp. the 2nd season artbooks and EW artbooks, had much heavier fanservice content than the earlier books. No, chill out XD I'm just saying that the idea that fashion or character designs weren't taken into account is silly. Because they definitely are and what they wore in Wing was what WAS current then :P After all, super loose tank tops, high waists, and the Fresh Prince look were the thing back in the early 90's! Though, Quote:
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2010-12-05, 02:48 | Link #1093 |
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Join Date: Nov 2010
Age: 32
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hookkaayyy so this is a bit of a late reaction but i just realized.
i thought dr j said heero used to be a "nice boy with kind eyes" and everything but this history lesson just shows us that heero has been the sullen, gloomy type all along. wtf. ugh..... |
2010-12-05, 04:23 | Link #1094 |
:3c
Join Date: Jun 2010
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Huh? Dr. J has said that Heero has "good eyes" in Episode Zero (which I always took to meaning honest and good-hearted and all that shounen stuff) and when he's talking to Relena I don't recall him calling Heero 'nice' at all... Not those exact words anyway.
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2010-12-05, 05:12 | Link #1095 |
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Join Date: Nov 2010
Age: 32
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i didn't mean that it's those exact words. i guess me using quotes made you think i meant that word for word. my bad. that's just how i took it when the good dr said that heero dear just keeps in all of his emotions when he's on missions but when he's not he's compassionate, you know more human. but wtf with all the "..." that i saw as his lines in the translations and the way he acted when he was a young boy, it wasn't any different than how he really is. or maybe that's just me. grr. nevah mind.
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2010-12-05, 06:49 | Link #1096 | |
:3c
Join Date: Jun 2010
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I mean, sure, I was still amused to see tiny 5 year old Heero being a sullen sack in these new chapters- but it wasn't exactly a surprise to me, either. |
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2010-12-05, 07:07 | Link #1097 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
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He was laughing it up in that EW flashback though. xD
Edit: And I think I just found the best possible opening theme for FT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtMF3oDNdSc Last edited by wingzerosnuggles; 2010-12-05 at 11:27. |
2010-12-05, 13:13 | Link #1098 |
Tobi is a Good Boy!
Join Date: Nov 2010
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Dr.J said that heero is actually a kind hearted young man and commented that relena also had the same expression on his eyes. though it's a mystry what life heero had with his mom and stepdad, and the latest translations imply that he may have had a difficult time with people who treat him without much affection and show a darker side without much warning.
what i mean to say is that heero does have a good heart but the way the earth and colonies as they were during all those wars with his stressed family may have affected him. you've got to admit that when you are a kid it doesn't take much hurt you're feelings(I used to be very withdrawn and anti-scocial myself). I've seen the new art work of odin and im surprised at how much change there is since the episode zero version. |
2010-12-05, 17:27 | Link #1099 | |
:3c
Join Date: Jun 2010
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With Odin, at least he was up and front with Heero that this was a 'contract' and they were, essentially, coworkers; not parent and child (though of course, Heero never knew the truth that they actually were... which is even a bit sadder, haha). Odin didn't treat him like an idiot and Odin actually gave him life skills that he could use; as opposed to coddling him. Yeah I'm...disregarding this apparent character design change, HAHA. You don't complete change someone's design after 15 years, uh sorry. |
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2010-12-05, 17:54 | Link #1100 | |
Faaarrrkkkkk
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: The land down under.
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frozen teardrop, glory of the losers, gundam wing |
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