AnimeSuki Forums

Cosmic Eagle · 2010-10-30, 21:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by shmaster

Aleister is the one beyond 0 and 1. But the Tree of Sephiroth is just an analogy to that status Aleister has attained, not his actual association.
Aleister attained that status through the theory of Secret Chief.

That is not a analogy to Kamijou.

IE I think it's saying that Crowley is transcendent over life and death. And since right before that it states how it's like there are countless clones of him everywhere.....I think he's actually omnipresent somehow..

Flere821 · 2010-10-30, 23:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by shmaster

Aleister is the one beyond 0 and 1. But the Tree of Sephiroth is just an analogy to that status Aleister has attained, not his actual association.
Aleister attained that status through the theory of Secret Chief.

That is not a analogy to Kamijou.

About the 'Secret Chief', can you give some more detials on that? The Chinese translators left a note saying they have no idea what that is supposed to be about after having done some research.

Cosmic Eagle · 2010-10-30, 23:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flere821

About the 'Secret Chief', can you give some more detials on that? The Chinese translators left a note saying they have no idea what that is supposed to be about after having done some research.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secret_chief

More of Blavatsky's rather dubious interpretation of Eastern religion and her own occult research...

MeisterBabylon · 2010-10-31, 00:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by I_am_Kami

shit. can u imagine the amount of research the author had to do?

We certainly can't imagine how did he do all that research AND produce what 4 mangas 22 novels 3 animes in 6 years?!

He's a program man. Just add concepts and he'll print out a story.

shmaster · 2010-10-31, 01:08

So far in the novel, Aiwass is Aleister's Secret Chief, and Aleister is his "window".
Anna Sprengel is considered to attain the same state, as a "window" of the Secret Chief.

By becoming a "window" of superior beings, they now exercise powers beyond human. This is also how he can be omni-present. Their existence aren't as defined as a "window", in other words, their existence is also more free.

It is like saying he might be here but might not be here too. (but do not confuse it with Schrodinger's Cat, where things is undefined due to a lack of observation.)

Chaos2Frozen · 2010-10-31, 01:12

What's a 'Secret Chief'? And I assume by 'window' you mean Aleister is like an 'Avatar' or 'representive' of Aiwass?

btw, quick wiki check says that 'Anna Sprengel' existence was never proven?

Flere821 · 2010-10-31, 02:20

After reading through Vol22 Epilogue again, Aleister also mentions Anna Sprengel as the founder of the of Magic Cabal 'Golden' (Chinese just says 'Gold', 黄金), and now he's on the same level of existence as her.

Thanks Cosmic Eagle and everyone, that was a name I couldn't quite translate into English ^.^;

Cosmic Eagle · 2010-10-31, 02:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flere821

After reading through Vol22 Epilogue again, Aleister also mentions Anna Sprengel as the founder of the of Magic Cabal 'Golden' (Chinese just says 'Gold', 黄金), and now he's on the same level of existence as her.

Thanks Cosmic Eagle and everyone, that was a name I couldn't quite translate into English ^.^;

I swear Kamachi has to be as major a geek as some of us here to be able to sift out such esoteric stuff like this....

shmaster · 2010-10-31, 02:24

Secret Chiefs are higher spiritual beings that oversees the magical operation of the world or even cosmic order.

In real life, Anna Sprengel and Aleister were said to attain the state of a Secret Chief.
Though, the existence of Anna Sprengel was never proven.

As for Crowley, he said he had attained the state of 8=3, the stage that is corresponding to the Secret Chief and the circle of Binah of the Sephiroth. Aiwass is on a higher state of 10=1 and performs his will through Crowley.
Quoting Crolwey himself from Equinox: "I now incline to believe that Aiwass is not only the God or Demon or Devil once held holy in Sumer, and mine own Guardian Angel, but also a man as I am, insofar as He uses a human body to make His magical link with Mankind, whom He loves, and that He is thus an Ipsissimus, the Head of the A.'.A.'."

In the novel, Anna and Crowley were describe as Secret Chief's "window", the reason why their existence is uncertain and couldn't be proven.

shmaster · 2010-10-31, 02:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flere821

After reading through Vol22 Epilogue again, Aleister also mentions Anna Sprengel as the founder of the of Magic Cabal 'Golden' (Chinese just says 'Gold', 黄金), and now he's on the same level of existence as her.

Thanks Cosmic Eagle and everyone, that was a name I couldn't quite translate into English ^.^;

Anna is the one who appointed the leader, not the leader himself.

outerelf · 2010-10-31, 02:34

Doesn't Kamachi have some sort of helpers to help him look this stuff up? That's certainly be much more believable...

Then again, there are those people who have a good memory and can read stuff once and remember most of it, with only a few details different here and there.

Cosmic Eagle · 2010-10-31, 02:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by shmaster

Secret Chiefs are higher spiritual beings that oversees the magical operation of the world or even cosmic order.

In real life, Anna Sprengel and Aleister were said to attain the state of a Secret Chief.
Though, the existence of Anna Sprengel was never proven.

As for Crowley, he said he had attained the state of 8=3, the stage that is corresponding to the Secret Chief and the circle of Binah of the Sephiroth. Aiwass is on a higher state of 10=1 and performs his will through Crowley.
Quoting Crolwey himself from Equinox: "I now incline to believe that Aiwass is not only the God or Demon or Devil once held holy in Sumer, and mine own Guardian Angel, but also a man as I am, insofar as He uses a human body to make His magical link with Mankind, whom He loves, and that He is thus an Ipsissimus, the Head of the A.'.A.'."

I find it amusing how they incorporate and warp Vajrayana Buddhism and Kabbalistic practices into works like Theosophy and we get the Secret Chief principle from it....with the very ungodlike RL Crowley claiming such a status...shows you just how much people back then desired exploration of unknown cultures...

Xenosnake · 2010-10-31, 02:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by outerelf

Doesn't Kamachi have some sort of helpers to help him look this stuff up? That's certainly be much more believable...

Then again, there are those people who have a good memory and can read stuff once and remember most of it, with only a few details different here and there.

His best friend's probably Google. Most people these days think it's just a way to look up porn, but it can help look up info.

shmaster · 2010-10-31, 03:17

People often says that Kamachi works too hard and Haimura is going to die of overwork because Kamachi don't let him rest.

Flere821 · 2010-10-31, 23:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by shmaster

Anna is the one who appointed the leader, not the leader himself.

Chinese translation of the Japanese bit:

既能做好作为连接secret chief 的「窗口」的工作，同时协助设立了「黄金」的结社的女人，安娜?修普林凯勒

My Translation into Eng:

The woman who can perform the task of being the 'window' to the secret chief, and at the same time helped setting up the 'Golden' cabal, Anna Sprengel

So she didn't appoint the leader, she's one of the founders - which is what I said in my earlier post.

shmaster · 2010-10-31, 23:52

Bleh, I am mixing it with what happened in the real life. In real life, Westcott had Anna appointed him as the leader so he can have the legitimacy to lead the Golden Down

pikachuwei · 2010-11-01, 00:17

maybe the author is just a thelemite

thats why he understands all this confusing terminology

Miraluka · 2010-11-01, 09:29

Anna Sprengel....

At this point of the series, somebody else had the feeling Anna Sprengel can be included as a character in the series?

pikachuwei · 2010-11-01, 22:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wilfriback

Anna Sprengel....

At this point of the series, somebody else had the feeling Anna Sprengel can be included as a character in the series?

she is laura stewart in disguise

both are british magicians

well Anna Sprengel IS english right?

in any case it could explain why laura knew aleister's true identity and was confident she could take on AC in another war.

shmaster · 2010-11-01, 23:27

Anna is a child between a Irish mother and German father.
On the other hand, I think the possibility of Laura being Aleister's daughter is still there.

2010-10-31, 01:12	Link #246
Chaos2Frozen We're Back Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Redgrave City Age: 35	What's a 'Secret Chief'? And I assume by 'window' you mean Aleister is like an 'Avatar' or 'representive' of Aiwass? btw, quick wiki check says that 'Anna Sprengel' existence was never proven? __________________ Devil Trigger , Subhuman , Crimson Cloud , Mad Qualia

2010-11-01, 00:17	Link #257
pikachuwei Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: New Zealand	maybe the author is just a thelemite thats why he understands all this confusing terminology __________________

2010-10-31, 01:08	Link #245
shmaster オンドリャァァァ!!! Join Date: May 2009	So far in the novel, Aiwass is Aleister's Secret Chief, and Aleister is his "window". Anna Sprengel is considered to attain the same state, as a "window" of the Secret Chief. By becoming a "window" of superior beings, they now exercise powers beyond human. This is also how he can be omni-present. Their existence aren't as defined as a "window", in other words, their existence is also more free. It is like saying he might be here but might not be here too. (but do not confuse it with Schrodinger's Cat, where things is undefined due to a lack of observation.)

2010-10-31, 02:20	Link #247
Flere821 Lurker Join Date: Aug 2010	After reading through Vol22 Epilogue again, Aleister also mentions Anna Sprengel as the founder of the of Magic Cabal 'Golden' (Chinese just says 'Gold', 黄金), and now he's on the same level of existence as her. Thanks Cosmic Eagle and everyone, that was a name I couldn't quite translate into English ^.^;

2010-10-31, 02:24	Link #249
shmaster オンドリャァァァ!!! Join Date: May 2009	Secret Chiefs are higher spiritual beings that oversees the magical operation of the world or even cosmic order. In real life, Anna Sprengel and Aleister were said to attain the state of a Secret Chief. Though, the existence of Anna Sprengel was never proven. As for Crowley, he said he had attained the state of 8=3, the stage that is corresponding to the Secret Chief and the circle of Binah of the Sephiroth. Aiwass is on a higher state of 10=1 and performs his will through Crowley. Quoting Crolwey himself from Equinox: "I now incline to believe that Aiwass is not only the God or Demon or Devil once held holy in Sumer, and mine own Guardian Angel, but also a man as I am, insofar as He uses a human body to make His magical link with Mankind, whom He loves, and that He is thus an Ipsissimus, the Head of the A.'.A.'." In the novel, Anna and Crowley were describe as Secret Chief's "window", the reason why their existence is uncertain and couldn't be proven.

2010-10-31, 02:34	Link #251
outerelf Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Bouncing	Doesn't Kamachi have some sort of helpers to help him look this stuff up? That's certainly be much more believable... Then again, there are those people who have a good memory and can read stuff once and remember most of it, with only a few details different here and there.

2010-10-31, 03:17	Link #254
shmaster オンドリャァァァ!!! Join Date: May 2009	People often says that Kamachi works too hard and Haimura is going to die of overwork because Kamachi don't let him rest.

2010-10-31, 23:52	Link #256
shmaster オンドリャァァァ!!! Join Date: May 2009	Bleh, I am mixing it with what happened in the real life. In real life, Westcott had Anna appointed him as the leader so he can have the legitimacy to lead the Golden Down

2010-11-01, 09:29	Link #258
Miraluka Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Age: 34	Anna Sprengel.... At this point of the series, somebody else had the feeling Anna Sprengel can be included as a character in the series?

2010-11-01, 23:27	Link #260
shmaster オンドリャァァァ!!! Join Date: May 2009	Anna is a child between a Irish mother and German father. On the other hand, I think the possibility of Laura being Aleister's daughter is still there.