2011-11-14, 07:13 | Link #121 |
JONLIの憂'
Join Date: Apr 2004
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God...this episode was so cool.
Kiritsugu's fighting style is super awesome, that gun he got at the end look like those elephant guns that you use tranquilize them. I was just wondering, when a servant dies his or her soul is just a replica of the original in the holy grail right? So they don't actually die if they die in our world? Saber is the only exception to this because she signed the pack while she was alive? Then for Archer (fsn) how could he not remember Saber? Or if he does remember Saber, wouldn't he know the outcome of his battle that it is inevitable? Like doesn't he remember his young self besting him? I'm just slightly confused, I've been trying to catch up recently reading all the fate wikia but they don't explain everything or at least not clearly enough, anyone who can clear things up a bit for me would be awesome. |
2011-11-14, 11:27 | Link #122 | ||
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Join Date: Jul 2006
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I don't think the remembering the younger self besting him is the kind of time travel logic that your trying to use.
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2011-11-14, 13:01 | Link #123 | |
JONLIの憂'
Join Date: Apr 2004
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Spoiler for fsn spoiler:
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2011-11-14, 14:03 | Link #124 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
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he's nowhere near fast enough to dodge bullets though
@jonli: archer comes from a different route than the ones in FSN. He didn't travel back to his own reality, he traveled back to a different one, hoping the paradox of emiya shirou killing his past self would be enough to erase him as well(and he actually knows that it won't work, he's just doing it partially to avoid young!shirou to end up like him, partially because he's just that desperate) and saber is also a copy, just like every other servant. So even if servant saber dies in the war, the real one doesn't, until she either obtains the grail or forfeits the wish altogether |
2011-11-14, 14:14 | Link #125 |
Me, An Intellectual
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: UK
Age: 33
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Actually Saber is an exception. She's the real deal and not a copy, due to a time paradox where she technically isn't dead yet. But you know, we shouldn't be discussing this. The rules in the opening post make this perfectly clear.
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2011-11-14, 14:18 | Link #126 | |
JONLIの憂'
Join Date: Apr 2004
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Seeing as how most of these characters don't even show up in FSN...this is going to be a tear-jerker...damn it....especially Kariya....GOOD GOD.....poor guy. He's not even mentioned by Rin or Sakura in FSN.... SNIFF. |
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2011-11-15, 13:00 | Link #127 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2004
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It doesn't matter that the replicas are a little lower quality than the originals. They both break when they clash.
Cost efficiency inside UBW also doesn't matter because it's a fixed cost for expanding UBW which instantly prepares all the swords. Because Shirou had UBW inside him also meant that Shirou was able to instantly store a blueprint of any sword Gilgamesh pulled out with just a glance. Shields only cost 2-3 times more than swords (according to the ingame status screen not the wiki). Considering Shirou can fire off at least a dozen swords in all the routes, it's really not that big of an issue. Finally, the game clearly states that inside UBW, Shirou's swords were being activated faster than Gilgamesh could. Nonetheless, a serious Gilgamesh would still beat Shirou because his servant level stats are still far higher than what Shirou could muster. Furthermore, he'd be wearing his armor which was able to deflect a few blows from Saber. Therefore he'd be able to pull out Ea and use it without his arm getting cut off. So even if we stacked the deck and let Shirou fight Gilgamesh inside UBW to begin with, he'd still lose out because Gilgamesh is so stupidly broken. |
2011-11-15, 21:08 | Link #129 |
~Night of Gales~
Author
Join Date: Dec 2005
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Really?
Nasu would be the first person to say "Nah, Gilgamesh is actually really really really broken. You said he got owned by a human/lesser Servants in my writings? That's just my plot device called 'King of Arrogance and Carelessness In Front of Mongrels' at play."
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2011-11-15, 21:18 | Link #130 | |
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Join Date: Mar 2010
Age: 39
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She and Kariya suffer from the fact that FSN was written before Zero and, thus, at the time when Nasu was writing FSN he hadn't even thought of those characters. Aoi is the more obvious one, though, because IIRC Rin never even mentions that she had a mother in FSN. It's almost like Nasu got to planning out Zero and suddenly realised "wait, children have two parents, don't they...?" |
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2011-11-17, 15:54 | Link #131 | |
JONLIの憂'
Join Date: Apr 2004
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Kariya not being mentioned by Sakura I just feel is heart wrenching since he's going through so much for them. It's like I know you're gona die...but good god do you have to die LIKE THAT? Being eaten inside out by worms ... |
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2011-11-17, 17:39 | Link #132 |
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Join Date: Apr 2009
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he did say that if Gilgamesh actually was serious about winning in the 4th war, he could have single-handedly crushed the other 6 servants in one night...
with maybe the exception of saber alter(at least, if she had avalon), no servant stand even the slightest chance in a 1vs1 fight against a serious Gilgamesh, no matter how much you stack the odds against him... |
2011-11-18, 04:48 | Link #135 | ||
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In fact, when I've written post-HF fics, I actually have Sakura remember Kariya, and name her child after him. And I've seen others do similar things, too. Erm, "nor" as in "a nor b are true".... |
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2011-11-18, 07:30 | Link #136 |
JONLIの憂'
Join Date: Apr 2004
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Kariya's more of a father figure though...I mean she's her favourite penis and all but it ain't the same.
I was always a bit surprised that Gilgamesh is so strong in this particular rendition. He's really only strong because of Gates of Babylon so I'm sure there are other ways to trick him or defeat him. It's like he is only as strong as his ego let's him to be, and he's quite pathetic in that aspect. I guess we can say that he didn't win the 4th war because Tokiomi wasn't a competent enough master to control him? (I didn't read the novels yet so I don't know why he lost) Is Arcueid stronger than Gilgamesh? She's suppose to be one of the strongest beings in Nasuverse right? |
2011-11-18, 07:38 | Link #137 |
阿賀野型3番艦、矢矧 Lv180
Graphic Designer
Moderator Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Belgium, Brussels
Age: 37
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No, Gilgamesh is definitely a though cookie, virtually the best Servant in both 4th and 5th war, and in a very high tier in term of powerlevel in Nasuverse.
You can say he is actually "strong enough" to have such arrogance in Zero (although in FSN, he is basically nutty). Arcueid is only stronger than Gilgamesh if she unleash her full power (which would make her second strongest being in nasuverse, same rank as Crimson Moon, second to ORT). But under her "usual" 30% mode, she is at most equal to Gil.
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2011-11-18, 08:19 | Link #138 | |
JONLIの憂'
Join Date: Apr 2004
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There's something that I wondered about. Servants basically get their powers and abilities enhanced by the holy grail, and their stats are also rearranged by their class type. So in reality without being a Servant, and at his original form, Gil's powers would probably be lessened? |
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2011-11-18, 08:45 | Link #139 |
阿賀野型3番艦、矢矧 Lv180
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Moderator Join Date: Mar 2006
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You will never see Arcueid in 100% anyway, considering it would go against her own character altogether. That's why in Fuyuki's powerlevel chart, Arcueid in 100% mode is never mentioned, since it is, for the lack of better terms, impossible to occur.
Anyway, the holy grail only serve as a "vector" to call forth the Heroic Spirits from the Throne of Heroes in Akasha, while Masters serve as anchors for them to the world. Past this point, the Holy Grail doesn't really do much about these, aside of collecting the defeated servants as prana mass. There are a lot of "environmental" points that affect servants (such like terrain, classes etc) but generally speaking, they are as powerful as their past deeds/legends dictate so. Of course, every Servants are "more powerful" due to their nature of Heroic Spirit, meaning they have to be dealt with conceptual weapon, instead of physical weapons. But such chance of nature doesn't mean they have a "boost" in its truest sense. In the case of Gil, it is very unlikely he would be "less" powerful, especially that he doesn't have a "fame" bonus unlike Saber with Arthurian's legends.
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2011-11-18, 09:14 | Link #140 | |||
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and yes, gilgamesh is only as strong as his ego let's him be, because otherwise he'd be a story breaker and nobody in fate would stand a chance against him Quote:
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Gilgamesh is likely the kind who was more powerful in life than as a servant(like probably ever other servant in the 4th and 5th war except for EMIYA) and anyways, it doesn't matter since he's the kind who relies on his story-breakingly-powerful NP rather than stats... |
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