[Jap-Manga] Claymore Statistics, Power Levels, and Theories

[Voracious Reader]

Originally Posted by edf91

I went back and read up on Rachel's reaction to Riful, and yes, they were thinking that Riful is just a pushover. I am just amazed at the experience level of their single digit in fighting high powered AB - I don't even think they can take on Rigald or Dauf. To me, it just seems that they are too used to being able to push any AB they faced before, and when they face someone that is more powerful, they just go to pieces.

Well, if you are already rereading that part then also check Aundrey's relevation just before Riful captured them, just as Fenrir_valindri said they were merely trusting their senses.

[edf91]

Originally Posted by Fenrir_valindri

The awakened beings living up north? Avoiding Claymore patrols of the area? It is obvious that they have improved in that department, because we had seen no signs of Tabitha's long-range sensing before, and Helen and Deneve weren't very impressive Yoki-sensors back during their first hunt either.

That was a real question - was wondering where are all the "practice material" coming from, that's all...

Originally Posted by Fenrir_valindri

Riful was attempting to find someone who could see through her disguise, thus the reason she hid her true Yoki in the first place, she said so herself.

I was thinking along of the lines of - she let Rachel hit her to see what kind of strategy they were planning of taking her down...

Originally Posted by Fenrir_valindri

It cut through Riful's tentacles easily enough, considering Clare's Windcutter didn't even damage Riful's tentacles earlier, thats a pretty good indication, as only Helen's drill could damage them as well.

You are probably right on this, but after I went back and check - it looks like Clare was trying to make sure the tentacles don't get behind her - she can probably break it, but the main "pieces" might still get through behind her, unless she use flashsword, which I doubt she want to use. Clare seems to avoid using her windcutter on Riful's tentacles when she's running away - probably think it will slow her down...

Originally Posted by Fenrir_valindri

Well i'm not going to argue about Rachel being stupid, because she is. Standing there in fear is a perfectly normal response when faced with an overwhelming opposistion, she had thought they stood a chance until she realized the true scope of Riful's power. Irene herself grew afraid of fighting at all after seeing Priscilla's awakened form, so it would be suprise if a weaker warrior would freeze up in the prescence of an Abyssal One, especially when they realized they were being toyed with.

Well, I don't think Irene and those guys were given much of a chance, so they have to do some desperate stuff. To their credit, Irene and company were surprised because 1) Priscilla really go over her limit and 2) Teresa didn't finish her off. Either way, you are correct in the sense that the Org just don't let their Claymore go out much and fight higher quality opponents

Originally Posted by Fenrir_valindri

I think it's rather impressive that Audrey recovered so quickly after being freed from Riful's grasp.

Think that happen often when the things that were stuck on you are violently rip off you

Originally Posted by Fenrir_valindri

As I said, Rachel is stupid, and an enemy that is completely immune to sword-swings is quite rare. (Dauf level) As you stated, Audrey was quite capable until she realized the deception.

Well, she does know Riful is pretty much immune to it - so just find her trying to cut Riful when she knows it doesn't work pretty funny in a way.

Originally Posted by Fenrir_valindri

And Sophia and Noel did blindly attack a much more powerful opponent as well, Priscilla, and look where it got them.

Priscilla's power is pretty much unknown to them, and they have to do it - they seems to be the type that cannot let yoma go, even if it's their own "comrade".

Originally Posted by Fenrir_valindri

Teresa was at least capable of being injured by a standard Claymore attack (however unlikely) but Riful is completely immune to low-level sword-strikes, and even some higher level ones like the Windcutter, that adds alot of intimidation factor in facing Riful.

I would say the same for them, since Teresa was fighting all four at once (without using youki), while Riful was just dealing with two. Personally, I find that more impressive, as Teresa is basically "one of them," while Riful is at least an Abyssal one that has been around for ages.

Originally Posted by Fenrir_valindri

and as much as I'd hate to point this out, no matter how intelligent your planning is, a single super-powered AB can screw over anyone. Rigaldo proved that point by completely demolishing the leaders of the war in the North, despite Miria's plan. Only the Wild-card that was Clare saved them in the end, otherwise Miria's battle-plan would have been a complete flop.

Miria knows the chance of the fight - she did say she didn't know how many, if any, will survive, so she wasn't plan on "winning" per say. She was using the strategy that might work, but you are correct - if Clare wasn't there, they are all dead.

Originally Posted by Fenrir_valindri

High powered ABs like Dauf and Rigaldo don't just show up everyday either, I doubt Galatea + Miria would have been able to take Rigaldo either, so kind of moot to put Rigaldo up as a comparison for Audrey and Rachel's combat strength.

Was just using them as a "marker" for high powered AB, not them in particular. As we can tell from Agatha, whom even with Miata and Galatea teamed up, Galatea is not 100% will win, there are powerful ABs out there...

Originally Posted by Fenrir_valindri

I think they could kill Dauf with the same basic strat they used againt Riful fyi, not that Riful would allow it.

Assuming it connects, sure - I am just doubting whether it will connect, that's all.

[edf91]

Originally Posted by Voracious Reader

Well, if you are already rereading that part then also check Aundrey's relevation just before Riful captured them, just as Fenrir_valindri said they were merely trusting their senses.

I know that, which is why I said their experience in dealing in more powerful opponent sucks - you will always get someone more powerful than you one day, so always plan on that, unless you want to die early. Apparently, Rachel plan on that

[Newhope]

Originally Posted by edf91

I know that, which is why I said their experience in dealing in more powerful opponent sucks - you will always get someone more powerful than you one day, so always plan on that, unless you want to die early. Apparently, Rachel plan on that

It may suck but just how many ABs are in that power range not many so its no surprise they didn't know what to do.No plan they could have come up with would have saved them from someone as powerful and cunning as Riful.

[Zsych]

Regarding Clare using the WindCutter, it is supposed to be at least more powerful than the Flash Sword, and I expect that its stronger than Flora's attack(by virtue of the superior arm using it.. Irene's). The wind cutter's speed should actually make it stronger than Rachel's attack, although for some reason the speed and strength of a sword strike are considered separate here. I wonder if Clare actually wanted to hurt Riful any since she did intend to talk to her afterward.

[ch0c0b0fr34k]

Originally Posted by Zsych

Regarding Clare using the WindCutter, it is supposed to be at least more powerful than the Flash Sword, and I expect that its stronger than Flora's attack(by virtue of the superior arm using it.. Irene's). The wind cutter's speed should actually make it stronger than Rachel's attack, although for some reason the speed and strength of a sword strike are considered separate here. I wonder if Clare actually wanted to hurt Riful any since she did intend to talk to her afterward.

Well, I doubt Clare has formed any real connection with Riful....thought the part where that one Claymore asks which one they're going to save is puzzling to me; in that case, they may treat both Org. Claymore's and AB the same.

On a side note, I wonder how Claire's awakened form would be rated.

[Zsych]

near-Isley class would be my bet, though not enough to defeat Priscilla... without the help of other awakened beings. The Fab 7 really need to go sit in the middle of nowhere, practice increasing their mental strength and half-awakening. Its going to take power to stand up to Priscilla's lot or the Org.

[Anima]

You are putting Clare in abyssals league? I suppose you based your assumption on her beating Rigardo who is #2 after Isley. If that was the case, then you are forgetting a major point here. Isley is abyssal and Rigardo is an AB (a strong one no doubt) I see it along the line of saying that anyone who could beat Rosemary, could take on Teresa but that's not necessary.

[chibamonster]

I dunno how Clare stacks up against Priscilla and the Abyssals right now with her partially awakened form but it wasn't like Clare's partially awakened form in Pieta was struggling with Rigard at all. Most of the damage she inflicted on him was from the blade arms more than her sword anyway. The reason it took as long as it did was because Clare's form was so much faster than Rigard that she had difficulty controlling the speed. If anything it seemed that Clare was too powerful for her own good.

I feel that Clare's normal strength and her awakened strength would be exponentially different anyway. No saying that she would be above abyssal yet (although I think she would be ). We just know that she pwnd one of the oldest awakened #2's to the extent that he recognized her as "superb". That's a lot from someone who considered them self the real number 1 of their generation.

[Tempest35]

THE oldest #2 AB in existance really...now she's up against Agatha...XDD I wonder if she'll bring up that fact before she make Aggy into crab chowder or whatever they can make from diced crabs.

[koffy]

Considering how much is Clare improved until now I think she can stand against Priscilla eventually. IMO Clare is still quite unexperienced and have deficiencies, I mean she can gain more power and experinece, in my eyes she is looks like Priscilla a bit..kinda "limitless". Dont know exactly, the strength of the Claymores is not predetermined, so its depends on, thinking of how is Miria reached #6 rank, worked hard for it. I want to say Clare have got a kinda advantage according to the other Claymores, a part of Teresa, borrowing a part of the former 2# and of course herself, so her limits are unpredictable for me, I guess she got (or not :/ ) the ability to surpass Priscilla. Agree with Chiba about Clare cant control herself, its still too much for her, maybe never be able to controll it ,I hope she is going to learn how to have it.

PS: I hope I didnt talk too much bullsh*t with my faint english:C

[Fenrir_valindri]

Heh, your english is fine.

As for Clare's potential, as stated by others, it is really hard to tell how strong Clare is, and I have my own thoughts on her potential.

But if Clare is to beat Priscilla, I really would prefer it if she did it as part of a group, as it stands Priscilla is far stronger then anything else in the Claymoreverse and to have someone else reach her level would just cause more problems, not to mention Clare would probably have to awaken to do it.

So I believe that when Clare eventually faces of against Priscilla that it won't be a one on one fight, as per cliche (and we all dislike cliches) but it will be a group vs Priscilla.

[khryoleoz]

Why can't or shouldn't Clare face Priscilla alone? What precludes her from ascending to powers that surpass even Priscilla? Why can't a duel be done in any other way than a cliche?

[chibamonster]

No worries about your english Koffy. I assumed you were a native speaker. .

With how claymore treats its characters, even the likable ones, Clare may be the only one alive to fight against Priscilla in the end. Personally I have my doubts about whether or not Priscilla will be the final "bad guy". Claymore seems to be more complicated than that. Even if she was the end boss I imagine she would get some form of redemption like poor Ophelia. Especially because despite all the people she has eaten she did save and take care of Raki. So while she took Teresa away she could give Raki back. Not a fair trade to be sure but definitely enough to confuse Clare.

This is just me, but I think we will see some very powerful enemies coming up in the future, or at least powerful combination of enemies. Priscilla may or may not be willing to fight, not to mention that Riful is looking for a youki manipulator to balance the playing field against her and Isley. With priscilla out of the picture, either because of her mental state, raki or because of Riful's plan, it is back to 3 abyssals including Alicia. Those 3 do not get along anyway and will probably end up fighting among themselves at some point. I am not exactly sure how the great eight (including Galatea) are going to fit into the power struggle but it certainly does not seem to me that they are that big of a factor yet.

[Newhope]

I wouldn't be surprised if Clare and Priscilla team up in some way to fight something bigger,the whole Clare verses Priscilla is just to simple for claymore.I think we have yet to see who the main enemy is yet though the ORG seems to be a good bet the way the storys going.

[Tempest35]

I think that Miria would rather remain in the shadows as an unknown force that is able to keep even Abyssals at bay with their reputation and the results of their handiwork left after one of their missions. Like a roaming super elite strikeforce...or even super ninjas

I was thinking of a reformed ORG...having the Great Eight as the new Elders (kickass!). The number of regions can remain the same but they have more people deployed (2 warriors per region plus their entourage if they so choose one). I'd think that they would have things more out in the open so that people will trust them more and that in turn will make it harder for youma to impersonate humans if the humans learn to trust the warriors and be at ease around them.

...now I got this image of a cloaked Miria sitting down in a fashion similar to how Aizen sits now...XD

[khryoleoz]

If the factions we have right now will be the same ones who we see in the end fighting for control or dominance, then where Clare and co will need to operate as a group is in neutralizing Riful, Isley, Priscilla, Maita, Alicia, and the Org. I don't see any of them working with Clare and co, so they will be enemies. Clare will need the support of every one of her allies to deal with everyone else, so that really does leave Clare the only one who has for now the potential but inevitably the power to dispatch Priscilla, the most serious threat in their world second only to herself. It's a crowded field. Frankly, I like the confidence that Clare has been showing since her meeting Riful again. What I personally would like to see is for Miria to infiltrate the group and reform it from the inside out. Then Clare can be the muscle to dispatch the AOs and Priss.

[Tempest35]

Well, how much trouble would it be for them to just go to Staff and assasinate Rimuto and the other Elders minus Rubel (he's cool so he can stay) and just establish themselves as such? Probably not what they want but it's a viable option in my opinion.

[Newhope]

I was thinking of a reformed ORG...having the Great Eight as the new Elders (kickass!). The number of regions can remain the same but they have more people deployed (2 warriors per region plus their entourage if they so choose one). I'd think that they would have things more out in the open so that people will trust them more and that in turn will make it harder for youma to impersonate humans if the humans learn to trust the warriors and be at ease around them.

...now I got this image of a cloaked Miria sitting down in a fashion similar to how Aizen sits now...XD

This is similar to how I see claymore ending either Miria reforming the ORG or been the leader of any surviving claymores and hunting youma from the shadows.

That leads to something i'd like to see maybe a epilogue with claymores hunting youma in secret in a modern would .

[chibamonster]

With how volatile the abyssals are in relation to each other, the best plan of attack for the ghosts might really be doing nothing at all and take advantage of opportunities like Raphaela did to drop the heavy hitters. That or keep doing community service to claymores who might rat them out to the organization later. So far they have saved (or are saving) 9 claymores that would have died including numbers 3-5 and at least another single digit.

I know the Ghosts have nothing against the claymores still belonging to the organization but I worry about them suddenly showing their whereabouts to the most powerful Claymores they can find immediately after they coming out of the north not to mention saying hi and giving a high five to Riful. They are not so covert are they? Priscilla and Isley really might be the only ones who don't know at this point, especially after Clarice's little report to the organization.

The organization knowing about them is a problem because they DO have the ability to track the 7 because of Miata. I hope they will find a way around this or that Miata won't do it because they saved her 'mama'. While the Ghosts themselves might not be detectable, anyone watching the youki flow would realize that SOMETHING was close from the flow of their enemies. Especially if AB's just started dying in horrendous fights. Someone put the idea forward that Alicia Beth and Rune are waiting right outside Rabona which really would go along with the organization's mentality. If they can't track the 7 easily at least they know they can draw them out.

Personally I agree that there will be stronger monsters in the future. I hope that the organization MiB's themselves are the monsters they send to destroy towns that don't pay. Or something along those lines. Those guys are a mystery to me. I also hope that Priscilla and Clare team up in the end but it would still be a long way off.