Fate/Grand Order (Mobile RPG)

[Rasen]

Originally Posted by Thess

Yeah but

Spoiler for spoilery talk!:

3. He spent his whole interlude make an elaborate plan to contact us without Holmes meddling to warn us Holmes isn't to be trusted, before deleting our memories of that encounter. Zeus, the picture of arrogance and ego, was crept by Holmes. Evil Tamamo has a pause to give him a look and instead of addressing him as "Ruler" as she did with other Servants class names in this chapter, she called him "that coward" with narrowed eyes. Rasputin/Kotomine wants to avoid a direct confrontation with Holmes as much as he could when he ambushed Kadoc. Just why? Holmes' not that strong as a warrior. He managed to survive Surtr!Sigurd attack, and function under the duress of Zeus' curse. Holmes keeps on pilling up dangerous flags, I don't know. I was with you because I was hoping Sion was going to be untrustworthy, but that Moriarty brought up his ability to move in singularities as bizarre when most would dismiss it as another Musashi (I don't remember right now if Ritsuka tried to brought it up) it's a little concerning. I think Hinako was wary of him too, I don't remember if was her interlude or somewhere else.

Spoiler for Trying to break up the wall:

3. There's certainly a lot of flags:
a) I am unfamiliar with Moriarty's interlude.
b) What do you mean by "crept by Holmes"? He snuck up on Zeus?
c) The points about Tamavitch and Rasputin, I might see as a function of him being Sherlock Holmes, a fictional character defined as someone who knows everything/sees through everything. (Someone who knows everything yet still does nothing, cowardly. Also, someone you don't want to poke.) Also, if the goal of the Beasts is to wipe humanity, it doesn't really matter which Beast does it, right?
d) Holmes isn't a strong warrior? Isn't he known as a master Baritsu fighter? Has Robert Downey Jr. taught us nothing?
e) Was there something particularly significant about Surtr's attack? Servants are built to take a lickin', keep on tickin'.
f) What is this Zeus curse?

Spoiler for For something completely different:

When did Tamavitch eat Zeus to try and Beastify? I may be skipping through cutscenes, but I don't recall Zeus ever showing up again after Mash railgunned his head and Chaos made an appearance.

[Thess]

Originally Posted by Rasen

Spoiler for For something completely different:

When did Tamavitch eat Zeus to try and Beastify? I may be skipping through cutscenes, but I don't recall Zeus ever showing up again after Mash railgunned his head and Chaos made an appearance.

Spoiler for stuff:

I'm tired about the Holmes thing, but I'll return to him after I answer this quickly, since I'm about to go. Zeus' curse was blocking him to use his logical thinking 100% btw, he feared his eyes/gaze, I need to go back and read the exchange again but that's the gist.

What? I don't remember that happening. Chaos appears after Zeus is defeated out nowhere and once you read the obnoxious Musashi scenes (or skip them for your sanity), you're off to find Wodime. Koyanskaya transforms into an incomplete Beast Saint Graph revealing herself before you even fight Aphrodite. She was running some errands Beryl gave her (like buying toilet paper ) and due to Holmes (who guesses she's not the god's subordinate but a partner/associate), she managed to get a loophole from her contract to not reveal herself for a quick boss fight before changing back. Her Nega trait is "NEGA Weapon."

[Rasen]

Originally Posted by Thess

Spoiler for stuff:

I'm tired about the Holmes thing, but I'll return to him after I answer this quickly, since I'm about to go. Zeus' curse was blocking him to use his logical thinking 100% btw, he feared his eyes/gaze, I need to go back and read the exchange again but that's the gist.

What? I don't remember that happening. Chaos appears after Zeus is defeated out nowhere and once you read the obnoxious Musashi scenes (or skip them for your sanity), you're off to find Wodime. Koyanskaya transforms into an incomplete Beast Saint Graph revealing herself before you even fight Aphrodite. She was running some errands Beryl gave her (like buying toilet paper ) and due to Holmes (who guesses she's not the god's subordinate but a partner/associate), she managed to get a loophole from her contract to not reveal herself for a quick boss fight before changing back. Her Nega trait is "NEGA Weapon."

Yeah, I don't remember the Vicci stuff either, but Xfire's post some days back:

Originally Posted by XFire

For added measure

Spoiler for big sad:

Kadoc actually did end up turning to our side when it became obvious the Olympus Lostbelt was not going to work out, and promptly gets Kirei'd.

Caenis finally manages to get one over the gods and actually lands the last blow on Zeus, and even drives away pseudo Beast Vichi.....only for Kirsch to come in and use a Command Seal to force her to fight us. Last fight in the LB is us putting her down.

Speaking of Kirsch, he gets shanked by Beryl either because Beryl wants to stalemate the Crypter battle or because he's actually loyal to the Alien God. He dies thinking of Ophelia and it turns out their feelings were more or less mutual.

Vichii eats Zeus after we beat him and becomes aforementioned psuedo Beast, but apparently is still missing something in order to become a real one. She dips at the end so cheers to that particular encounter in the future.

Speaking of Beasts, Beast VII is revealed. It's Olga. Or rather the Chaldeas AI taking on her form. Yay.

So yeah, this chapter is officially the biggest of the Big Sad's. Also we are totally fucked

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by AC-Phoenix

So is Euryale worth Grail Ascension? I've seen tons of videos where she does 1Million damage +, which is the reason why I kept levelling her up to now, as almost every enemy seems to have a male attribute.
There are just 16 Grails though... so it might keep me from levelling a 5 Star to 100 later on, should she start needing 1 for 2 levels at some point. (I have 5 Grails atm, and my only 4 Stars are, TamamoCat, d'eon and Suzuka Gozen)

Another question would be how buying Saint Quartzt outside the US works... Does it bill it against my google account, despite that I use quooApp or is it impossible for me to buy any? I'd really like to try my luck at the upcoming apocrypha pin ups...

Yeah, it works fine.

As for the Grails, I'd say don't worry about it too much. I still haven't grailed anyone so I have 25 of them. It's not critical. If you feel like it, just do it.

[Thess]

Originally Posted by Rasen

Yeah, I don't remember the Vicci stuff either, but Xfire's post some days back:

I'm pretty sure that half of that stuff is wrong.

[AC-Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Yeah, it works fine.

As for the Grails, I'd say don't worry about it too much. I still haven't grailed anyone so I have 25 of them. It's not critical. If you feel like it, just do it.

Oh so there are more than 16 now after all.
And yeah I ended up giving her enough to reach lv 80... And suddenly she 2 Shoots the Lancer bosses in E Plurubus.
Still. #SaveBronzeHorn.

As for the Saint Quartz, are you using a VPN/US Google acc for it or did aniplex finally change that?
Not sure what they'd do if the transaction ends up not getting through paypal, when they already gave me the SQ... (Though in the end, it just bills a prepaid card)

[bakato]

Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle

Are you serious?

The whole of pan humanity was gone when he and the others awoke. The bleaching was done by the Alien God before anyone could have prevented it. The reason why Krystalia is gathering data on the Trees into that file is precisely because he obviously doesn't know what they are for. Nobody knows how to bring back Pan Humanity.

So being in that situation your solution is to just openly rebel against the Alien and have his contract kill him and his friends off for nothing? Instead of you know, trying to equip the remaining humanity (yes, the Lost Belts are humanity despite what people here are implying. They are not Pan humanity but they are still legit humans ) to set things right?

Sorry but I think that beats dying like a dog any day.

Except they were already out of their cryopods before Da Vinci opened them which was well before the bleaching of the earth. Anastasia and the oprichniki, which are created by LB Ivan's power, even attacked Chaldea. All of this well before the bleaching of the earth and descent of the fantasy trees.

Originally Posted by Thess

I know. When he made his intentions clear, he was attacked with the contract severing and his life put at stake. I think Wodime's major flaw is that he's too trusting. Beryl first, and IMO, not yet confirmed, but with Pepe chat in the beginning, he's too naive to look up Marisbury's good will.

Wodime's life experiences have led him to never condemn anyone as useless. He didn't get back stabbed by Beryl because he was too trusting. He was simply in a bad spot after fighting us.

Originally Posted by Thess

Well!

Spoiler for spoilers:

1. The thing is Wodime's the equivalent of a plucky, somehow airhead shoujo heroine pretending to be some coldhearted prince like magus. He has a lot of faith and hope in people, enough to say it doesn't matter if you commit a mistake or two, what humans think about is how to deal with what goes 'after that.' And "every human being is trying their best." This leads him to trust Beryl despite not being a good idea. It's hard to gauge if this is serious because that's his real personality. He's the typical Nasu character who keeps a Mask to Hide His True Self. That's why is hard to tell with him, he really does trust humanity in the end, so he dies to protect Chaldea. His words and how he accepts humanity's flaws really make his previous plan kind of confusing/contradicting if it was just about fixing the world and future because of humanity's moral faults and nature. So unless was pretending and wanted to be proven wrong, this dead end needs to be more than "humanity is mean to each other" IMO.

2. It's the mothership/Dyson Sphere that fathered the Greek gods. You don't worry about it because it was "silenced forever", so yes, he was introduced at last minute to show off Musashi Zero and waste four different CGs unnecessarily on her.

3. I was counting on something similar, but Moriarty interlude framed it as something else with the "I hope I'm wrong but-" remark.

Wodime's plan was in ever intended to fix humanity's moral faults like Apocrypha's Shirou. It was designed to allow each and every individual to realize their potential in spite of those faults.

Originally Posted by Rasen

Spoiler for Trying to break up the wall:

3. There's certainly a lot of flags:
a) I am unfamiliar with Moriarty's interlude.
b) What do you mean by "crept by Holmes"? He snuck up on Zeus?
c) The points about Tamavitch and Rasputin, I might see as a function of him being Sherlock Holmes, a fictional character defined as someone who knows everything/sees through everything. (Someone who knows everything yet still does nothing, cowardly. Also, someone you don't want to poke.) Also, if the goal of the Beasts is to wipe humanity, it doesn't really matter which Beast does it, right?
d) Holmes isn't a strong warrior? Isn't he known as a master Baritsu fighter? Has Robert Downey Jr. taught us nothing?
e) Was there something particularly significant about Surtr's attack? Servants are built to take a lickin', keep on tickin'.
f) What is this Zeus curse?

Spoiler for For something completely different:

When did Tamavitch eat Zeus to try and Beastify? I may be skipping through cutscenes, but I don't recall Zeus ever showing up again after Mash railgunned his head and Chaos made an appearance.

a) Moriarty's interlude entails him telling us his suspicion about Holmes such as his ability to travel between singularities. It ends with him telling us to trust him should push ever come to shove, but joking it might never happen.
b) He meant creeped out. Specifically, Zeus says Holmes should not look at the gods.
d+e) Which should mean nothing against a dragon-slaying hero possessed by a pyromaniac world-ending god.
f) Zeus zaps and curses him to speak his thoughts and lower his level to 70.

She didn't. That's a false spoiler.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by AC-Phoenix

Oh so there are more than 16 now after all.
And yeah I ended up giving her enough to reach lv 80... And suddenly she 2 Shoots the Lancer bosses in E Plurubus.
Still. #SaveBronzeHorn.

As for the Saint Quartz, are you using a VPN/US Google acc for it or did aniplex finally change that?
Not sure what they'd do if the transaction ends up not getting through paypal, when they already gave me the SQ... (Though in the end, it just bills a prepaid card)

I didn't do anything special aside from using Qooapp.

[Rasen]

Originally Posted by bakato

Wodime's plan was in ever intended to fix humanity's moral faults like Apocrypha's Shirou. It was designed to allow each and every individual to realize their potential in spite of those faults.

Wasn't Amakusa's plan basically the same as Gendo Ikari's? Soupify everyone into a collective consciousness?

a) Moriarty's interlude entails him telling us his suspicion about Holmes such as his ability to travel between singularities. It ends with him telling us to trust him should push ever come to shove, but joking it might never happen.
b) He meant creeped out. Specifically, Zeus says Holmes should not look at the gods.
d+e) Which should mean nothing against a dragon-slaying hero possessed by a pyromaniac world-ending god.
f) Zeus zaps and curses him to speak his thoughts and lower his level to 70.

She didn't. That's a false spoiler.

a) Moriarty tells MC to trust Moriarty or trust Holmes?
d+e) I'm not saying that Holmes can go toe-to-toe. But is his survival significantly odd? Like was there a man-eating curse on the wound or a shattered Saint Graph?
f) Was that the original purpose of the curse? Or was that something after Holmes....resisted(?) it?

[Nachtwandler]

LB goes very slow this time. I do not have much spare time and they upped difficulty significantly.

Also, I was disappointed not getting Twins.

My luck on NA was better as I got Circe, Okki and another Helena fron 3 tickets and 10x.

[bakato]

Originally Posted by Rasen

Wasn't Amakusa's plan basically the same as Gendo Ikari's? Soupify everyone into a collective consciousness?




a) Moriarty tells MC to trust Moriarty or trust Holmes?
d+e) I'm not saying that Holmes can go toe-to-toe. But is his survival significantly odd? Like was there a man-eating curse on the wound or a shattered Saint Graph?
f) Was that the original purpose of the curse? Or was that something after Holmes....resisted(?) it?

Apocrypha was never fully translated, but I heard his plan was to pretty much lobotomize humanity and make them incapable of evil.

a) Moriarty.
d+e) Considering the odds? Yes. It's odd he was able to last even a second in hindsight.
f) Original, I assume.

[Rasen]

Originally Posted by bakato

Apocrypha was never fully translated, but I heard his plan was to pretty much lobotomize humanity and make them incapable of evil.

Wasn't there a whole anime, or did that go down an anime-only route?

a) Moriarty.
d+e) Considering the odds? Yes. It's odd he was able to last even a second in hindsight.
f) Original, I assume.

Again, this is probably a stupid question coming from a person who blasted through the cutscenes and heavily dependent on summaries, but: What odds?

I imagine that in Sigurd-form, Surtr wasn't nearly at full-power. (And Ophelia kept telling him to go easy) And of course, by the end of the LB, we had to fight Surtr full-on, and we live through that.

Servants have to fight against overwhelming opponents all the time. The very nature of the Class system guarantees that. And Hercules doesn't always win.

So was there anything particularly special about Surtr's attack that makes it strange that Holmes lived?

[bakato]

Originally Posted by Rasen

Wasn't there a whole anime, or did that go down an anime-only route?

Again, this is probably a stupid question coming from a person who blasted through the cutscenes and heavily dependent on summaries, but: What odds?

I imagine that in Sigurd-form, Surtr wasn't nearly at full-power. (And Ophelia kept telling him to go easy) And of course, by the end of the LB, we had to fight Surtr full-on, and we live through that.

Servants have to fight against overwhelming opponents all the time. The very nature of the Class system guarantees that. And Hercules doesn't always win.

So was there anything particularly special about Surtr's attack that makes it strange that Holmes lived?

Yeah, but the anime wasn't clear on his whole plan. At least, I can't remember much.

The ones I just said. Holmes was way out of his league.

But Sigurd himself got a boost. Holmes remarked that even with his creds as a dragon-slaying hero, tearing apart the Shadow Border's age-of-gods reinforced armor was a bit much.

Usually, there's some sort of synergistic conceptual explanation. There's none of that in this case.

No, just as I stated, this is a dragon-slaying hero from the age of the gods and Holmes is just some modern guy who knows baritsu.

[Rasen]

Originally Posted by bakato

No, just as I stated, this is a dragon-slaying hero from the age of the gods and Holmes is just some modern guy who knows baritsu.

Hercules is a Lion-slaying, half-God, from the Age of the Gods summoned into Berserker-class, with 12 Labors-worth of resurrection+resistance. Gilgamesh is also a demi-god from the Age of the Gods, with the prototype of almost every NP. Cu Chulann is a demi-god with a spear that reverses causality.

They don't always win.

Sometimes, they even lose to a modern-day mage, not even a Ruler-class Servant.

[shmaster]

Originally Posted by Rasen

Hercules is a Lion-slaying, half-God, from the Age of the Gods summoned into Berserker-class, with 12 Labors-worth of resurrection+resistance. Gilgamesh is also a demi-god from the Age of the Gods, with the prototype of almost every NP. Cu Chulann is a demi-god with a spear that reverses causality.

They don't always win.

Sometimes, they even lose to a modern-day mage, not even a Ruler-class Servant.

And Holmes is not even a mage. He is just a detective with some baritsu, that's it.
Surtr on the other hand is a texture busting level monstrosity.
Base on his state sheets and skills. He doesn't have anything that can let him survive Surtr's attack like that. Servants don't win or lose just because. It depends on the match up and whether they have the right NP or skill.
Surtr actually has the tools to wipe Chaldea if wasn't for Ophelia's Sirius Light.

Also, Amakusa's plan is making the entirety of the humanity into true immortals.

[Cosmic Eagle]

Originally Posted by Thess

Spoiler for yeaaaaaaaah:

I was honestly hoping this 'untrustworthy one' was Sion just because she rubs me in the wrong way and would make her less of a piece of dull infodump, but it's obvious is Holmes. Secretary Tamamo refrains to call his class, unlike the rest, and simply disdainfully calls him a coward. He's endured both Zeus' curse and his lingering damage from Surtr's old attack yet still moved around. Perhaps he's the other side of Beast V, and is gonna be "Nega Mystery" or something like that. Also Moriarty was suspicious to his ability to move on his own in Singularities. At first, I thought, "maybe he's an agent of counterforce equipped with limited sliding" but not sure anymore.

I personally think he is an agent created by an insane Alaya rather than a Beast though. I mean....why is he a Ruler rather than a Caster? Rulers are usually moderators of sorts. Also he is absolutely fanatical when it comes to Pan-human timeline. Screams a corrupted Alaya more than Beast

[Cosmic Eagle]

Originally Posted by bakato

Except they were already out of their cryopods before Da Vinci opened them which was well before the bleaching of the earth. Anastasia and the oprichniki, which are created by LB Ivan's power, even attacked Chaldea. All of this well before the bleaching of the earth and descent of the fantasy trees.

Just read Olympus....seriously. The bleaching happened before the Trees descended. Only Chaldea and scattered pockets of people underground survived the bleaching. It's confirmed here. Go see the documents Krys and Ophelia gathered. They didn't know about the bleaching or the Trees. None of them knew exactly what was going to happen so how can they be accomplices to wiping out pan-humanity when they don't even know when that happened and when the Alien can do it with ease and as a requirement for its aims?


In LB1 you only see the Trees descend. You never saw the exact moment the texture of the world got wiped. Even Kadoc says that to all Crypters barring Krystalia, the Alien is an unknown entity that just shackled them to its service as the price for reviving them (『異星の神』か。アンタもしらなかったんだな、オフェリア。僕もだよ．．．いいや、誰も知りはしない。僕 たちクリプターは『異星の神』の姿を知らない。僕たちを棺から蘇生させ、代償として異聞帯を育てさせた『何 か』としか). And we see subsequently that Krys doesn't even know that much either. Hell the Crypters including Krys even mistakenly assumed that the Trees were what bleached the earth. They absolutely did not even know that the Earth was already bleached and that pan-humanity was gone


Also, Kadoc makes it clear that the Alien God absolutely doesn't require the Crypters to wipe the Earth's texture. It could do it on its own with ease. What it needed the Crypters and Lost Belts for is some as yet unrevealed purpose relating to its obtaining a physical body.

Except they were already out of their cryopods before Da Vinci opened them which was well before the bleaching of the earth.

That's an assumption at this point. And one that is highly uncertain.








And BTW, how would there even be Opritchniki if the world was unbleached and Pan-humanity still around? You also never see Kadoc at the start. The ones leading that attack were Kirei and Vicchi acting on Ivan's orders. Fact is, everything points to Pan-humanity being already gone when the pods were opened. If anything.....and I chalk this down to it being the prologue and thus editing department hasn't really got full wraps on it, it's the incosistency between Ivan being able to attack Chaldea and the Trees being still on descent. But you can handwave that as "the Trees were already active, just not installed yet" or something I guess. That or something else is up no one yet knows




And finally, plenty of stuff involving Krystalia involves reading between lines which you may not be willing to accept, but do you seriously think he wouldn't have preserved Pan Humanity if he could? He included Chaldea of all people in his plans. He pretty much implies that ascended humanity would, despite all the kinks in evolution, reach a high enough level where their problems would be solved. And we know Krys is no friend of the Alien God. Does not this sound like his counterattack against the Alien?

And no, he did not make his contract with the Alien for this goal of ascending humanity at the expense of Pan-humanity. Because to do so, he would have to know about the Trees to a pretty large extent beforehand. He wouldn't have needed to carry out his investigation and data gathering like was shown in LB5. If you say he did that (betraying pan-humanity while knowing absolutely nothing about the Alien) with full knowledge he would be sacrificing Pan-humanity in the bargain, it does not compute because 1) It would be the biggest gamble ever, trusting that the Alien has some way he can take advantage of at the expense of wiping the world out and 2) Krys does not even hate Pan-Humans nor consider them expendable. Narratative-wise, the point of Krys background chapter is to establish he ISN'T a nihilist. Even if you say he considers them necessary sacrifices this is the entire human race we are talking about. And on the other hand we have a completely unknown, totally untrustworthy, alien entity

[Thess]

Originally Posted by bakato

Apocrypha was never fully translated, but I heard his plan was to pretty much lobotomize humanity and make them incapable of evil.

Yeah Remove Evil+Third magic.

Spoiler for wodime:

I wouldn't call Wodime's plan the same, because he'll just buff humanity's bodies to make them god-like (Da Vinci stated that they'll be like living Servants but humans, uh, sounds kind of the Servat Universe, doesn't it? ). He's got a blind sense of trust in humanity doing the Right Thing on their own. That doesn't involve him, the spell can't affect the caster (he's also dying because of the injuries he has sustained over the years, especially the murder attempt of his jealous father - I still don't get why didn't he have the nanomachines fix this, it's just a stupid plot device drama because I doubt Wodime would be able to be stopped without his status as a convenient ill boy). The drawback is that the majority (?) of Earth population got hunted down and killed/disappeared before he could charge back his tree (there are survivors though). I feel the arguments against it were super weak, aside of the think about the lost human lives (that they ignore how to recover), Holmes argues there'll still be strife and murder, but after that Beryl turns against Wodime because he thinks in that world he won't be able to kill people as before, making Wodime's prediction kinda of right! So Holmes' reasoning weakened a lot.

[belatkuro]

Finished Olympus yesterday. I wouldn't say it's overall better than Atlantis but it's not worse than it. Olympus excels at some points than Atlantis and Atlantis has better moments than Olympus.

Spoiler:

Anything not related to the Greek Pantheon is great. The gods were honestly not that interesting. They may be very different from humans but they're too bland. They made for great targets of the Black Barrel though.
On a similar vein, the group we had with us is also boring while the other side was far more interesting. Kirschtaria is definitely the star of this chapter. Each time he was around is great and his story is interesting. Kadoc and Pepe also shined a bit. Even Beryl as the new enemy is interesting. Our side doesn't have much to be said. Holmes is boring, Musashi is boring. Caenis was okay but she didn't really mesh that well with us. I know it was just a temporary team but she didn't do much to elevate the group chemistry. Sane Caligula was also okay but he's more of a plot device. And an even bigger travesty is that the 'allies' waiting for us were delegated to being on-screen AIs helping us from the background and were already dead. Was a shame really. The NPC twins were ok I suppose. Their last moments were really great.
Given Nasu's new blog post about helping out in this chapter, I can say the parts I liked were definitely the parts written by him. And by the way the enemies are and how it was structured, I feel like the other writer of this chapter is Sakurai. The Roma wank is kind of a giveaway and also the characters are just being moved by the plot instead of the characters moving the plot. Also, the sudden Chaos Sauron stuff to wank Musashi and didn't serve any other purpose was reminiscent of Lancer Artoria Alter suddenly appearing in London and dismissed just as fast.

Atlantis had better character interactions since we had a decent cast that interacted a lot. Save for the fight against Poseidon, it had some great fights too. While Olympus lacked a bit in character chemistry, it had some good plot moments and revelations and a good look at our main enemy Wodime, since the gods were boring. I suppose it was worth the wait given the reveals with Koyanskaya, the descent of the Foreign God and foreshadowings of the future. It was only the middle parts that were not that interesting. I'd say it's below Atlantis and equal to Yuga Kshetra.

Not gonna roll for Roma. Gonna save for the future. Hope next event is Ooku rerun so I can roll for Kama. We get a rerun first before the collab.

[Cosmic Eagle]

Musashi's bits at the end were totally Nasu though....And she is his character. Her whole fate and subsequent whatever in store is 100% his doing