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Old 2007-10-28, 00:54   Link #1
cheez rocks
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Angry Unfulfilling endings!

Is it just me, or is anyone else noticing a trend towards anime with endings that aren't actually endings? The list of one's I've seen are: The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya (if you watched them in chronological order), Code-E, Venus Versus Virus, Zombie Loan, and History's Strongest Disciple Kenichi to an extent. I don't just want the guy to get the girl; I want ALL of the bad guys dead/defeated, and I wanna see the resolution to the plot. Does anyone know why the anime studios are doing this? Or does anyone else want to whine?
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Old 2007-10-28, 01:52   Link #2
HurricaneHige
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becuz they are all following manga / light novels, and the manga / light novel isnt done yet, they cant "complete" the anime, or else the manga/LN fans will be angry :3
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Old 2007-10-28, 04:11   Link #3
xris
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First, it's not a trend because it's been like this for a long time. "Unfulfilled" endings are the standard.

The main reason is because anime is based on a manga and all too often the manga itself hasn't finished when the anime finishes. How can you create an ending for the anime when the source material hasn't finished itself. Now if you want to complain about the manga not finishing to your satisfaction, that's another matter but please do not "blame" the anime for this.

Don't forget that anime (in most cases) is not the source. In most cases an anime is produced because there is an existing successful manga running and they want to use the popularity to sell the anime (don't forget the reason anime is produced is to make money). The anime is more like a advert to further boost the manga's popularity, or it's a sort of "bonus" to the fans of the manga. Creating an anime series raises the awareness of the manga, increasing sales.

Therefore, the anime is hardly likely to provide an actual resolution to the original story because that would mean the fans (of the currently running manga) would have less of a reason to continue reading if they know how it's going to be resolved. When an anime series does provide an early finish (before the manga has completed), it typically hasn't been written by the manga author, it's been written by the anime production team. This in itself can be the cause of the problem because it isn't as good, which is not that surprising really. Plus, such finishes are typically an alternate version (and typically a weak version).
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Old 2007-10-28, 06:15   Link #4
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Darker than Black leaves the door wide open. And most of us are content with it because it allows for the fan's interpretation.
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Old 2007-10-28, 07:39   Link #5
SeijiSensei
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I would imagine that the anime producers hope they'll be asked to develop second, third, etc., seasons of a show, so having a conclusive ending isn't in their interest. That certainly seemed to be strategy Madhouse pursued with respect to Claymore.
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Old 2007-10-28, 07:40   Link #6
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Spoiler for Kannazuki no Miko:
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Old 2007-10-28, 08:36   Link #7
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Spoiler for Kannazuki no Miko:
Spoiler:
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Old 2007-10-28, 08:50   Link #8
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Spoiler for Kannazuki:
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Old 2007-10-28, 15:04   Link #9
cheez rocks
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Xris' explanation makes sense, but why make a shoddy anime with a non-existent ending, when you could just wait for the manga to finish, and then have the original author make a second EQUALLY good ending? That way the manga and the anime give each other a good name so even more people want to buy both, so the companies involved make even more money. As for Eviltape's idea... Leaving an open ending isn't giving license to the fans to speculate, it's just lazy. Fans will talk about what the ending SHOULD have been like no matter what.
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Old 2007-10-28, 15:50   Link #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cheez rocks View Post
Xris' explanation makes sense, but why make a shoddy anime with a non-existent ending, when you could just wait for the manga to finish, and then have the original author make a second EQUALLY good ending? That way the manga and the anime give each other a good name so even more people want to buy both, so the companies involved make even more money.
Well, you want to strike while the iron's hot. While the manga is still running (especially if it's been running for a while), hype is at its highest. Since anime productions (based on manga) are often financed largely by the magazine publishers, they don't only want to sell more tanks (a.k.a. collected volumes/books), but also more copies of the magazine the manga runs in every week or month (because that has a trickle-down effect on their other properties). Once the ending is known and the magazine run is over, interest drops rapidly. Plus, at that point, the author probably wants to start another project anyway. For shorter-running series, you're starting to see cases where the anime release is being timed to coincide with the ending of the manga, so that you get the same ending for both. But in most cases, an inconclusive/open ending isn't enough to doom the anime (some even like the variety, so long as they consider it non-canon), and gets more people interested in picking up the magazine to see what happens next. And as was already mentioned, there's also something to be said for leaving the door open for second and third seasons. Coming up with an anime-only endings still allows the show to end on some sort of a high note, without trapping yourself in something you'd potentially have to undo later. So yeah, this isn't new, and isn't likely to change, because the present arrangement benefits all parties (except, I suppose, for the anime fans who like "finality").
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Old 2007-10-28, 16:03   Link #11
xris
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cheez rocks View Post
Xris' explanation makes sense, but why make a shoddy anime with a non-existent ending, when you could just wait for the manga to finish, and then have the original author make a second EQUALLY good ending? That way the manga and the anime give each other a good name so even more people want to buy both, so the companies involved make even more money.
No one aims to make a "shoddy" anime to start with. Plus, there are many anime which do a good job of translating the manga into an anime.

Don't forget that in many ways the purpose of the anime is to try and introduce more readers to the manga and boost the sales (of the manga and popularity of the mangaka). Typically you want to boost the sales around the half way point, not once the manga is over. Waiting until the manga is over is a good way to miss your opportunity, by then the readership has dropped off and a new anime series isn't going to attract more readers by then. Plus, the buzz the manga created at the start will be missed. It's all a matter of timing. There are exceptions to this but in general I think it's true.

As for asking (or expecting) the mangaka to create a second equally good ending, it's difficult enough to create the first good ending to begin with

I think most non-Japanese fans fail to remember that the manga is the source material, not the anime. If you don't like the way the anime concludes, then you have the original manga to fall back on.
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Old 2007-10-28, 16:40   Link #12
HurricaneHige
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Also, remember that there are more than one anime studios, if u dont pick a series up when its hot, some other studio will, and they'll profit from it.
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Old 2007-10-28, 16:44   Link #13
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So in other words, start up reading mangas or just get over it with the crappy endings. And the best medicine for that is to watch more anime.
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Old 2007-10-28, 16:48   Link #14
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The anime series who do follow the manga carefully and take breaks to let the manga/novel get a bigger lead are few of the best. No problem with that. Still amazes that most anime companies still make things work. Still wonder why Anime is more popular then Manga over on this side of the world.

The only anime that did make a good ending was FMA, but if you compare it to the manga it was kinda a let down.

My question is why they follow the manga at first. Find out there isn't enough material. Make up their own last few eps and still don't end everything. You end up with an ending that sucks and you can't get a good 2nd season, because they can't follow the manga properly anymore...
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Old 2007-10-28, 17:09   Link #15
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My question is why they follow the manga at first. Find out there isn't enough material. Make up their own last few eps and still don't end everything. You end up with an ending that sucks and you can't get a good 2nd season, because they can't follow the manga properly anymore...
This is purely a guess, but maybe to give an ending that's obviously not the canon ending, while still achieving the vision of the anime writers/director. That way whatever the original writer does end up writing won't be in conflict (especially to resolve loose ends) and it'll be obvious that a certain point is the "branch-off point". Often times, going into a first season, the producers have no idea whether the show will sell well enough to warrant a second season (not matter how much they'd like it to). So they want to give the show a sense of finality in case "this is all there is". Especially on shorter anime (13/26 episode shows), the ending is basically decided before they start on the first episode; it's definitely a conscious, planned decision as opposed to "crap, we need to make something up... quick!"

In general, most anime directors seem to think of their shows as independant works inspired by/based on existing works, rather than "animations of" the work. So, in general, it's probably easier to think of manga and anime as two seperate, but related things. (It's probably also worth mentioning that shows not based on manga also have their own constraints and problems to deal with in terms of endings, but that's a different story.)
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Old 2009-07-22, 12:13   Link #16
Fate21
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Yeah i agree, Unfulfilling endings are standard.
And sometimes it will give you some kind of inspiration
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Old 2009-07-22, 12:40   Link #17
Vexx
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aye, there's no "trend" ... its pretty much always been the case when the source material is unfinished.

And its probably already been said but the fundamental purpose of anime is to encourage you to buy the manga, CDs, DVDs, etc. If you do not intend to be in that consumer group - they aren't targeting you.
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Old 2009-07-22, 12:49   Link #18
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Yay, I'm glad no one said Elfen Lied so far.

I'm very glad.

Aside from Claymore and Gakuen Alice, I haven't really been pissed off at many unfulfilled endings.

Depending on which episode of The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya S1 you watch first, you might think that it is an unfulfilled ending. If you're watching in airing order, then you get the "mystery is solved" ending. If not, then the last scene of "Someday in the Rain" might leave you thinking but it is still a very good conclusion to the series. Also, the mood of the entire episode was trying to slow the anime down to a peaceful halt.

To a certain extent, I actually liked InuYasha's ending. The reason is because even though there is still story to be told, I was left with no questions or confusion. Pretty much everything was explained and the main conflict in the series was mostly resolved.

An interesting case is Rozen Maiden's "ending," which is not at all. Like Gakuen Alice, it leaves the feeling that there will be another season. In the case of Gakuen Alice, we know that's not coming. But I will refrain from marking Rozen Maiden as an incomplete anime until I'm almost certain there won't be a sequel. The manga is still causing a stir after all.
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Old 2009-07-22, 12:56   Link #19
Reckoner
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Well it is largely because of many of the monetary reasons mentioned above...

However I also think it is a cultural thing in Japan. In America, almost everything has complete closure, with hardly any open ended endings. In Japan, which I feel is even in their movies much of the time, I always felt like they preferred the open ended ending.

Of course this is based purely on my anecdotal knowledge.

People never cease to be surprised by these greedy corporations, which I do not know why... It's clear that money > art.
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Old 2009-07-22, 21:01   Link #20
npcomplete
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Oh man, this is anime's greatest peeve to me, which was why I created the endings that really end thread in the Suggestions forum.

I just finished watching Blade of the Immortal and almost wish I had never started. Aside from the somewhat lacking action scenes, I really liked the whole show, except that it concludes right when the story is really picking up with a metaphorical "to be continued", with nothing resolved. It's exactly the kind of ending you'd see for a season finale on US TV. But the problem with all these shows is that you never know if there will ever be another season!

In fact the US TV model of having back-to-back seasons and knowing in advance when a show will really end does the fans a much greater service than anime model of pure uncertainty. If Blade of the Immortal did not sell well, then we can forget about a another season for example. (Although I'm not sure if the licensor will also look at Media Blaster's sales when it releases here). In that case, we're left with yet another, incomplete anime show.

I realize the dilemma of using manga as source material and I don't know of any good solution.. I do wish that perhaps the producers can wait until there is enough manga material available and even cooperate with the mangaka to produce a suitable "stopping point" that's part of the manga, like an ending of an arc that resolves a portion of the story.

And then there are some shows where the source manga actually does end but the anime has not continued. One example that comes to mind is Alien Nine. There's only 4 volumes of manga in total and it could probably just take only two more OVAs to finish the darn show!

Quote:
Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
This is purely a guess, but maybe to give an ending that's obviously not the canon ending, while still achieving the vision of the anime writers/director. That way whatever the original writer does end up writing won't be in conflict (especially to resolve loose ends) and it'll be obvious that a certain point is the "branch-off point".
.. and then you have shows like Gantz. It has a non-canon ending. And it ends in a way that can never be continued.. which would be alright if they decided to fork the manga material halfway or 2/3 into the show to create a proper ending. But nope, it was as if they were told "This is it. You're not making any more, ever. And it has to end in the next episode"

Hatsukoi Limited left me frustrated in a similar fashion, although to a much lesser degree than Gantz (because at least Hatsukoi completely resolves one of the relationships).
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