Why is Gundam Seed Destiny so controversial?

[dom33]

intresting post sniper-sensei.
as for the topic fukuda failed to realize he's goodat being original!man i can't belive i complemented fukuda.the best episode of seed was 49 due to deaths,interesting battles,drama,and originality and fukuda failed to realize that.as psylocke said(or was it someone else?) if he had the balls to kill someone from the old cast gsd would be alot better.here's a comical view on it.
dom theater:the lost balls.(ew)
(fukuda and his wife making the crap we know as gsd)
f:do you think i could kill someone fro terminal?
w:nah!you don't have the balls to.
f:yes i do!just watch me!
w: please you don't have the balls to kill one of the dom pilots or dacosta!
f:who's dacosta?(points to anyone who gets it)
end.

[Lumir]

Im not trying to flame here but the title of this topic in itself is incorrect/misleading. GSD did not fail in terms of sales and popularity to my knowlage. I came into this topic thinking that GSD actually did fail in those terms and was shocked, only to find out that this is topic is opinions and not facts. Oh well... my mistake i guess but please make titles that are clear to what you actually mean.

As for GSD i say it was great. The music the story/plot/characters and the outcome were all above average. Just rating the detail, color, animation quality, and music puts GSD above average. All i can say to those who compare GS to GSD is for you to really be able to rate GSD you need to completly forget about GS and rate GSD as if you never saw GS. The outcome of your opinion would be much different.

[srb]

No, I would still think that the later half of Destiny consists mainly of re-used animation in the battles and the story was slapped together haphazardly just so that they could finish the goddamn thing and please the fangirls.

Destiny is the biggest lump of failed potential I have ever watched. I wanted it to be great, but it's not, and I will never forgive Morosawa and Fukuda for raping Kira's character like they did in GSD.

[F!reStr!fe]

This was already possibly stated earlier although i lack the time to read the whole thing... Things which made Destiny bad in my own eyes:

1. The story was horrible once they killed Stella and introduced the Destroy Gundams Way Way too early to even build up the hype of it being in the intro and having being the end series MS. That is a big no no if i ever saw one.

2. Kira and Shinn focus was way off, If there was ever a problem it would be that Kira was brought back and fully reinstated with such power when the "main character" was supposedly Shinn. This I believe would make the series much more or less confusing in terms of the focus of the story and what the winner should be more or less. Also having Shinn be the anti-hero he should have at least had the chance later to convert to the good side instead of being beaten in nearly 5 seconds at the last episode.

3. None of the great characters were killed.. This point i believe is important for putting the story in a more serious tone. By having no one of the bigger cast killed everytime a MS blew up or was destroyed severely made it seem like destroying MS's were nothing and I felt as if it had no real kind of staple value to being defeated. I mean if Cagalli was killed by Shinn it would have made it much more dramatic in terms of Shinn vs Athrun, Or in any other circumstance.

4. The last and foremost was the run together ending which was more like a dead end sign than the end of a tunnel. If the story developed much more better towards the end it wouldnt have suffered the ending which destroys all the enemy MS's and destroys both Giant Energy Cannons with no sweat. They made it seem like it was no match for the Lacus Super all star team vs. the pretty good World/National Champions of the Minerva team.

5. The last and foremost thing was the animation of course... Reused scenes got quite annoying, when it opened up nothing new, intresting to watch and just left me like "omg this is the same last two scenes I saw." That killed the intrest with total annihilation.

And these I believe are what just killed my intrest with Destiny I probably have more but cant think of them right now but for now it may very well be what my personal opinion on why i disliked it so much.

[servitude]

Seriously.. PPl.. no offense or anything but could at the least, avoid makiing posts that are 1/4 page long.... My screen is just 1024 x 768, alas my laptop is not connected to the internet and there are posts that take up half the page that even after many turn of the mouse wheel its STILL the same post...... Its not meant for the post immediately before me.. Its more for those that like to reply to everything weveryone says...

[Slayerx]

Originally Posted by F!reStr!fe

1. The story was horrible once they killed Stella and introduced the Destroy Gundams Way Way too early to even build up the hype of it being in the intro and having being the end series MS. That is a big no no if i ever saw one.

This is the only point i disagree with... With the exception that Destroy was idioticlly used against Berlin instead of a major ZAFT military base, the first Destory's entrance and timing in the series, as well as Stellar's death, was done quite well, especially since Legend and Destiny were meant to be the final battle MS's...

The emotions over Stellar for Shinn were at it's peak, and her death help to set Shinn down the path to that of an anti-hero working for dullrandil... especially since it pushed Shinn away from Lacus and Kira's godly-ness

The problem with Destory wasn't it's entrance and timing, but how it was handled afterwards... Destory's entrance was a big deal, it presented it's self as the "end-all" gundam... if there was an ultimate weapon in the form of an MS, ths was it... atleast that's what the hype told us, and quite frankly, GSD should have used that hype...

instead of it being beaten by just impulse and Freedom, it should have taken everything the good guys had to take it down... it should have been like the biggest battle in all of GSD, second only to the final battle ofcourse...

And after Destory's defeat, Destroy should remained a big deal... we should either scene Destory retrun near the end of the series and put a fight even bigger then it's first fight... we should either had something like 3 Destory's each just as powerful as the original, or we should have seen something like Destory Mark II (yay zeta), a Destory that makes the orginal look like nothing...

Instead, GSD ruined the great hype behind the Destory and reduced it to nothing more then really big grunt... seirously, the orginal Destory, though could've been better, looked like a true menace for the heros... when i saw 5 Destory's, my reaction was "Holy shit!"... and then when they all get taken down in 5 minutes, my reaction was "WTF?!"...

Destory Gundam... another truly wasted piece of potential for GSD

2. Kira and Shinn focus was way off, If there was ever a problem it would be that Kira was brought back and fully reinstated with such power when the "main character" was supposedly Shinn. This I believe would make the series much more or less confusing in terms of the focus of the story and what the winner should be more or less. Also having Shinn be the anti-hero he should have at least had the chance later to convert to the good side instead of being beaten in nearly 5 seconds at the last episode.

Agreed for the most part... Kira stealing the show was a big No no... and i think it would have been better had Shinn converted to the good side a few episodes before then end... however, i think an alternative to Shinn converting and Kira being put out of the spot light, would have been to have Shinn atleast STAY as the Anti-hero... instead he basically forgets about EVERYTHING that happened (Stellar's death, his belief in Dullandil's dream, his absolute hatred for Athrun, Kira and Orb), and basically is reduced to nothing more then another Lacus Lacky... i would have ATLEAST liked to see Shinn hold SOME resentment towards Kira at the end of final plus instead of shaking his hand...

3. None of the great characters were killed.. This point i believe is important for putting the story in a more serious tone. By having no one of the bigger cast killed everytime a MS blew up or was destroyed severely made it seem like destroying MS's were nothing and I felt as if it had no real kind of staple value to being defeated. I mean if Cagalli was killed by Shinn it would have made it much more dramatic in terms of Shinn vs Athrun, Or in any other circumstance.

True, though i'm not sure if it should have been Cagalli that died, but i would have liked to see a major good character die... i mean, i was actually suspecting that if anyone was gonna die it was gonna be Lunamaria (not sure why, i just did)... at the very least, they could have introduced Heine at the very begining of the series, y'know, that way his death would have actually meant something; like Nicol;s and Tolle's deaths...
As for the old cast dying, if done right, i would have been all for it(heroic demise for pilots, Fllay-like death for non-pilots)... unfortunatly, Fukuda didn't even have the balls to keep Mwu dead (most awsome death in GS), much less kill off a member of the old cast

They made it seem like it was no match for the Lacus Super all star team vs. the pretty good World/National Champions of the Minerva team.

Actually i think it would be more correct to say, Lacus's small but Super all star team VS the VASTLY LARGER force of ZAFT and it's best of the best...
Seriously, they were outnumbered like 50 to one... the only non-grunt damage they recieved was a DOM loosing a limb... godforbid, that they would allow SF, IJ or the eternal to get scratched...

Originally Posted by Lumir

As for GSD i say it was great. The music the story/plot/characters and the outcome were all above average. Just rating the detail, color, animation quality, and music puts GSD above average. All i can say to those who compare GS to GSD is for you to really be able to rate GSD you need to completly forget about GS and rate GSD as if you never saw GS. The outcome of your opinion would be much different.

Music i think is the only place were GSD succeded... GSD Story/plot/characters started out great, but it all went downhill, and eventually failed in all those ares... the story an plot lacked focus and had problems thoughout most of the series, problems which only became worse as the series went on... and the characters were wasted, and missused

And you can't judge GSD without GS... GSD is a DIRECT sequel, meaning it's the continuatation of GS; GSD would not exisit if GS never happened... it makes MANY direct references to GS, making GS even harder to forget... The only way, you can judge GSD, and forget GS, is if GSD had little or nothing to do with GS...

examples of sequels where you can forget about the previous would include series like F91, which has little or nothing to do with the previous UC's, other then it's in the same universe... it's alright to forget the prvious UC sries, because there are pratically no references made to the older series

[Eidolon Sniper]

I just thought of something...

Todaka's death = kinda like Andrew Waltfeld's (dying in the line of duty)
Auel's death = Tolle's death (at least he didn't get Auel-ed...but it was also bloody and done in Auel going WTF fashion just like Tolle)
Heine's death = Nicol's death (Athrun got angry at Kira on both deaths...)
Stellar's death = Fllay's death (obviously)



Even in deaths Fukuda's very original, isn't he?

[Nightengale]

Originally Posted by Eidolon Sniper

Even in deaths Fukuda's very original, isn't he?

Don't you mean Morosawa, since she's the brainchild of something called Gundam SEED Destiny?

Fukuda simply directed whatever shit Morosawa threw at him. At least he didn't went " O RLY LETZ USE SEED RECAPZ FOR THEIR DEATHZ N WE KEEP TEH XTRA CASHZ"

[Eidolon Sniper]

Originally Posted by Nightengale

Don't you mean Morosawa, since she's the brainchild of something called Gundam SEED Destiny?

Fukuda simply directed whatever shit Morosawa threw at him. At least he didn't went " O RLY LETZ USE SEED RECAPZ FOR THEIR DEATHZ N WE KEEP TEH XTRA CASHZ"

No, I think that's Sunrise's line...

It just totally sucks that Fukuda agreed to do it.

[Slayerx]

Originally Posted by Eidolon Sniper

I just thought of something...

Todaka's death = kinda like Andrew Waltfeld's (dying in the line of duty)
Auel's death = Tolle's death (at least he didn't get Auel-ed...but it was also bloody and done in Auel going WTF fashion just like Tolle)
Heine's death = Nicol's death (Athrun got angry at Kira on both deaths...)
Stellar's death = Fllay's death (obviously)



Even in deaths Fukuda's very original, isn't he?

what's even funnier is that all of those death's in GSD are watered down compared to those other deaths...

Todaka... i would actually compare more to Uzumi, since they both allowed themselves to die, where as Andy went down fighting... only thing is, when Uzumi died, he did it to make sure the EAF would not gain anything from Orb (aka the mass driver)... Todaka on the other hand... i honestly don't see any reason why he should NOT have just abandoned ship with the others... Also, Uzumi's death continued to have a huge impact on cagalli and the rest of Orb... Todaka was rather quickly forgotten

Auel... gotta disagree wth you there... relating him to Tolle is a bit of a stretch... other then to how they looked when they died, they got nothing in common...

Heine... Now you see, when Nichol died, Athrun got royally pissed off like never before, and the audience gave a huge "Holy crap?!" reaction... Heine's death, didn't effect Athrun or any character nearly as much, and the audience gave a mix of "meh" and "what... he's dead already?" reations

Stellar... well, she had a powerful effect on Shinn, much like Fllay did on Kira... But Stellar's Character was absolutly nothing compared to Fllay... her character and her relationship with Shinn were just terrible

I don't think there was ANY death in GSD that could really live up to the Death's in GS... i think Stellar's death is the only one that comes close... as much as i hated Stellar, her death did have meaning and help move the series along... where as all the other deaths had little impact and were pretty pointless...

Don't you mean Morosawa, since she's the brainchild of something called Gundam SEED Destiny?

It just totally sucks that Fukuda agreed to do it.

So true... Morosawa does deserve most of the blame... but Fukuda must share the blame because, as the director, it's his job to have the final say in what stays and what goes... he should have correct the script and story that he was given and should have done so to pick up Morosawa's slack writing...

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by Eidolon Sniper

No, I think that's Sunrise's line...

It just totally sucks that Fukuda agreed to do it.

Sunrise?

I thought we all agreed that it was to save wasted time rather than money? I have yet to see an under-funded Gundam series in the last 10 years.

[Schneizel]

Heine's Death = Miguel's Death. ; p

[Eidolon Sniper]

Originally Posted by Slayerx

what's even funnier is that all of those death's in GSD are watered down compared to those other deaths...

Todaka... i would actually compare more to Uzumi, since they both allowed themselves to die, where as Andy went down fighting... only thing is, when Uzumi died, he did it to make sure the EAF would not gain anything from Orb (aka the mass driver)... Todaka on the other hand... i honestly don't see any reason why he should NOT have just abandoned ship with the others... Also, Uzumi's death continued to have a huge impact on cagalli and the rest of Orb... Todaka was rather quickly forgotten

Now that you mention it...

But Cagalli was crying about in that ep, and I think the other soldiers reported that Todaka went down along with the ship...Todaka got himself blown up to bits with the ship just like any modern day captain trying to live up to the honor and glory of going down with the ship...

Auel... gotta disagree wth you there... relating him to Tolle is a bit of a stretch... other then to how they looked when they died, they got nothing in common...

They both died in a rather bloody fashion and they were chopped off rather spectacularly by a SEED mode ZAFT person. And Auel and Tolle were part of the EA.

Heine... Now you see, when Nichol died, Athrun got royally pissed off like never before, and the audience gave a huge "Holy crap?!" reaction... Heine's death, didn't effect Athrun or any character nearly as much, and the audience gave a mix of "meh" and "what... he's dead already?" reations

Athrun was doing his angry look again over at Kira after Heine died. And he was "Kira...." (growl). Heine's character had that much effect on Athrun already that he also gets flashbacks of him in the series.

Stellar... well, she had a powerful effect on Shinn, much like Fllay did on Kira... But Stellar's Character was absolutly nothing compared to Fllay... her character and her relationship with Shinn were just terrible

Well compared to Lunamaria and Shinn's together, they had a pretty developed relationship (Shinn and Stellar). Stellar is just one of those messed up heroines who actually had a more complex contribution to the story than her love interest's second option (weird mirror of Fllay in this sense). Her mentally challenged childlike personality got through that angsty little brat's heart. That's more than what Athrun did, and THAT'S saying a lot.

@ VCV

But with GSD DVDs selling like hotcakes, it's still wasted time AND money...

[Crusader]

ID say that after 32, tings were at it's lowest. I mean there was potential for a Neo vs Shinn rivalry over stellar which would have been great, unlike the rest of th epointless uninterestign chracter development.

Tell me what sounds better.

Kira vs Rau II umm.. rey. No priot mettign liek rau and kira had. just thrown together. uniteresting convos

or Neo vs shin over stellar. they have actually met in person before, and this would be importatn for him to question him about hi slies. instead of neo going back to the AA, becomign Mwu again pretty much.

[dom33]

about shinxstellar it developed more than kxl well every pairing in gundam is more developed than kxl..
as for deaths
todaka went down with the ship and was forgotten by his "allies"(cagali and co.) 2 epiodes or so later.
auel= this is war,he's done his job.
heine= this was stupid since he was around for only 3 episodes.
stellar= four murasame mk2.
dullinil=repeat of seed in other words backstaped.
rey=no sense.
talia=see above.

[Demongod86]

Stellar was never even able to form a coherent sentence.
Todaka never was KNOWN by Cagalli in the first place. The Takemikazuchi squadron was still around in the battle of Orb.
Auel=he was a glorified grunt.
Heine=hello, you know the reason he died was that he was voiced by TMR and TMR does not have time to work on a zillion GSD eps?
Stellar=hommage to Four.
Dullindal=was in for it since ep 13.
Rey=Rau clone. He was going to live a painful existence.
Talia=Durandall's lover until the end.

[srb]

Originally Posted by Demongod86

Stellar was never even able to form a coherent sentence.

Yes she was - she started out as weird, not retarded.

[dom33]

Originally Posted by Demongod86

Stellar was never even able to form a coherent sentence.
Todaka never was KNOWN by Cagalli in the first place. The Takemikazuchi squadron was still around in the battle of Orb.
Auel=he was a glorified grunt.
Heine=hello, you know the reason he died was that he was voiced by TMR and TMR does not have time to work on a zillion GSD eps?
Stellar=hommage to Four.
Dullindal=was in for it since ep 13.
Rey=Rau clone. He was going to live a painful existence.
Talia=Durandall's lover until the end.

about auel have you seen the dom pilots?why are they still alive?(i hate them)
and heine could have returned for finale,stellar yeah she's four mk2,you wanted dullinil to die because he wanted lacus to die and repeat of seed,rey could have lived since he had the pills, as for talia she was angry at him for the past 10 episodes and she had a son and kira and athrun knew that and left her to die.... you know with lame moronic heros like kira and athrun who needs villians?
gsd has made me loss respect for most of the old cast here's how.
kira:annoying god-moder,wins with plot devices,he got no skills.
cagalli:big moron,loser,boy(i thought she was a boy at first)
lacus:see kira.
athrun:world's biggest moron and backstabber now plot device winner.
andrew:mr.useless.
murrue:a bad captain that wins with plot devices.
mwu:annoyed that he's alive.
the only 2 people i haven't lost respect for are yzak and miriallia(sp?) cause they rejoined tsa to please the moronic fans.

[Demongod86]

Why are the dom pilots still alive? Because of teamwork.
Heine could have returned? How? Holding his torso in his disembodied forearms? TMR COULD ONLY WORK ON SO MANY EPISODES, OKAY? THE MOMENT TMR SAYS "GTG PPLZ" his character DIES. Or would you just have Heine stick around playing Mr. Mute?
Rey could have lived with pills, or did you forget about all of Rau's suffering? He even said "I DON'T HAVE LONG TO LIVE, SHINN, AFTER ALL, I AM A CLONE."
Talia might have been angry at Durandall, but above that anger she was in love with him. Or just because a husband and wife fight they have to instantly divorce?

Kira: Yes, he's a god-moder...so what do you call Shinn doing in episode 38 five tims over what he and Kira needed an entire episode 32 to do together? That's not god-mode? What about Rey just completely obliterating the Girty Lue and DBZing off Jibril? Hmmm, taking down a battleship in all of thirty seconds with a single mobile suit...not godmoding at all!
Cagalli: Let's see you try to run a country. Go ahead. We'll make a country and call it dom33's country, and give it a population of a small town. Try to make everyone happy...let alone an entire country, one that is very influential and is a target by many political forces. As for a boy, that was the POINT. She is a tomboy.
Lacus: tell me, does she actually DO something besides covert operations? No. So she better be DAMN GOOD at what she does to be the main character's girlfriend.
Athrun: Backstabber? Oh gee, you wouldn't get the hell out if someone showed you that you were being spied on, and that the higher-ups were suspicious of you, then having soldiers knock on your door? Really, you'd just open the door and say "come on in, soldiers, want to have some tea? Oh, the chairman wanted me eliminated? Well, here's my face, feel free to shoot anytime!"
Andrew: Or starship captain.
Murrue: Okay, we get it, you're a hopeless Shinn fanboy. If Shinn wins, it's because of skill as a pilot and strategy, never mind turning five destroys into grunts. If Kira or the Tri-Ships-Alliance win, IT MUST BE A PLOT DEVICE! Here's a hint, the only reason Kira lost in ep 34 was that Fukuda needed to have a good reason to roll out Strike Freedom. Unless you can provide me with a better reason.
Mwu: Well, they REALLY weren't making much of a big deal about his death. GS 49: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, MWUUUUUUUUU! LOHENGRIN, FIRE!!! And then we forgot about the entire ordeal. Or if Neo wasn't Mwu, what would you have done with him? All of his extended are dead, the EA army is utterly no match for one little ship and its 3 gundams, is he just going to sit back and say "ah, shit, oh well?" and proceed to eat Destiny's cannon?

You REALLY have no idea what it takes to put an anime or any form of writing together, do you dom33? In fact, here's a little challenge: to show you know a SHRED about storytelling, write a 5000 word original short story about anything you like and post it somewhere people can see it. No need to develop characters too much, just a quick one-event blurb to make us realize you know something about the elements of plot and characterization.

Because right now, you are simply unable to even form grammatically correct sentences. Am I--or is anybody else--supposed to take you seriously?

[Slayerx]

Originally Posted by Eidolon Sniper

But Cagalli was crying about in that ep, and I think the other soldiers reported that Todaka went down along with the ship...Todaka got himself blown up to bits with the ship just like any modern day captain trying to live up to the honor and glory of going down with the ship...

well you may have a point with him going down with the ship out of honor... though i'm not to big on honor playing a role in modern time periods, its just outdated... y'know, like he could have made a difference in the long run if he didn't go down with the ship... but that's just me thinking...

And yes, Cagalli may have cried, and the Orb soldiers cried aswell... but that was it... after that episode he was never mentioned again... hell, Shinn never even got the chance to find out that he killed him...

They both died in a rather bloody fashion and they were chopped off rather spectacularly by a SEED mode ZAFT person. And Auel and Tolle were part of the EA.

That's a rather vague relationship... i mean, Tolle and Auel are probably not the only EA soldiers to die like that... I mean, a real relationship would be if Tolle was a true pilot, and if Auel had close friends who were deeply impacted by his death...

Athrun was doing his angry look again over at Kira after Heine died. And he was "Kira...." (growl). Heine's character had that much effect on Athrun already that he also gets flashbacks of him in the series.

Ya but my point was that it was waterdown compared to Nichol's death... Athrun was WAY more effected and pissed when Nichol died...

Well compared to Lunamaria and Shinn's together, they had a pretty developed relationship (Shinn and Stellar). Stellar is just one of those messed up heroines who actually had a more complex contribution to the story than her love interest's second option (weird mirror of Fllay in this sense). Her mentally challenged childlike personality got through that angsty little brat's heart. That's more than what Athrun did, and THAT'S saying a lot.

Now you see, choosing which was the better couple, between those two pairings, is like choosing the lesser of two evils... they both sucked
My main problem with ShinnXStellar was that i can't see where the Lover's attraction came from...

Shinn saw Stellar as an innocent, another victim of the war... sure she killed many poeple, but she doesn't know any better... in short he pitied her... He soon wanted to get her out of the war and do anything he could do to protect, and keep her from being a victim...
Now that all explains why Shinn liked Stellar, but now he could fall in love with her
Stellar had the mind of a 4 year old, other then looks there was nothing actually appealing about her... and don't tell me they weren't in love... half-naked night on the beach + 2 Naked astro hug scenes, just scream love...

what i think the relationship SHOULD have been like is more of a brother/sister relationship... instead of halk-naked beach scenes and naked astro scenes, we should have had a plutonic relationship that whenever they were together should have sparked multiple Shinn/Mayu flashbacks... His desire to protect should have stemmed less from her situation and more from his failure to protect Mayu... Sure, Stellar probably wasn't much like Mayu, but she could very easily been scene as a little sister... Stellar was perfect for the role... she had the mind and the innosence of a child and she need someone to protect her... Then Stellar's death would have also had even more signifigance, cause instead of just another loved one dying it would have been more like Mayu's death the sequel

Plutonic, brother/sister relationship... not lovers relationship... that's atleast how i can't help but see it...