(CR) My Hero Academia Season 6

[Kanon]

I think the adaptation is kind of ruining this part to be honest. It was great up until the point Shigaraki woke up.

Personally, the next arc is the one I'm looking forward to. After that, I'm tuning out. If you think the current arc is bad, just wait until you see the final arc.

[Strahan]

Originally Posted by Chosen_Hero

^Mentally unstable =/= stupid.

No, but it certainly impairs one's ability to think critically. Especially for something like this. You can be super smart yet not place any value on things that are unimportant to you, especially if taken to the nutty extremes of her psychopathy.

[Chosen_Hero]

Originally Posted by Strahan

No, but it certainly impairs one's ability to think critically. Especially for something like this. You can be super smart yet not place any value on things that are unimportant to you, especially if taken to the nutty extremes of her psychopathy.

Toga's situation isn't about whether of not she is thinking critically or not, it's about how stupid the entire situation is, her ability to think critically is clearly not being impaired if she is lucid enough to be able to rationalize that she wants/needs to confirm Deku and Ochako's thoughts on whether a hero should kill or not and whether they are thinking of trying to kill her or not, before going ahead with whatever Shigaraki and the League of Villains wants to do next.

You can't have your cake and eat it too, Toga can't be both think about all of that while at the same time being stupid and not realizing that she is fulfilling the same bad outcome that she is trying to confirm isn't true from Ochako and possibly Deku, if she can rationalize "I want their opinions or at least clarificafion on their stance as heroes before I commit to doing super evil" then she should also be able to rationalize "let me not do the thing that will make them act negatively towards me in this one instance because I want an honest answer".

Having her (possibly) needlessly murder an old lady just to use her as a disguise when we know that she can just take some blood and use that without killing is a contrived way to get the worst reaction out of Ochako (remember back when she was introduced and used Camie as a disguise without the need to kill her to get close to Deku?).

Worst still, if the old lady is indeed alive then once again this whole situation just feels even more like a contrived way to have Ochako react negatively to Toga by having obfuscated information, this could be/have been solved by having Toga just remark that the old lady is fine as soon as she was accused by Ochako... but you know, can't have that stopping the forced antagonism.

[FlareKnight]

On the positive side it is satisfying having the decision to bury Endeavor's acts blow up on the face of the hero society. Good on him for trying to change and the positive growth. But the acts still happened. And that was a great skeleton hiding in the closet of the person they raised up as the #1 hero. After losing All Might they didn't have many choices. But the cost is still going to be paid for letting the villains decide how and when to reveal it.

Fair enough that Endeavor truly thought Toya was dead. But there was always the potential for a moment like this. And it came at the worst possible time and in the worst possible way.

While this arc has had flaws, I still think it's magnitude of times better than the last 2 seasons. Still not as good as the first 3, but it's at least better than what we've gotten. Still wish it was able to reach the levels they were bringing before. Deku vs Shoto is still way better visually than anything we've gotten this season. But it's better than the last and I'll take improvements wherever possible.

[Kanon]

Best Jeanist revealing himself to be alive and well after Dabi claimed in his video that Hawks had killed him will help mitigate the damage quite a bit. Really hurts the credibility of Dabi's claims for the public.

[Guardian Enzo]

Originally Posted by Kanon

Best Jeanist revealing himself to be alive and well after Dabi claimed in his video that Hawks had killed him will help mitigate the damage quite a bit. Really hurts the credibility of Dabi's claims for the public.

That’s what I was thinking. Nevertheless, Endeavor still comes off looking pretty dismal (and not undeservedly).

He’s become something of a tragic figure based on his seeming realization of just what a tool he’s been and what the responsibilities of a #1 hero are. But I think the essential truth of Endeavor’s arc is that he’s fundamentally unfit to fill All Might’s shoes. Even if he feels guilty about it now (and I’m not sure he feels guilty enough) he can’t undo the damage he’s caused.

[Chosen_Hero]

Oh boy, so the whole thing with Toga went nowhere... great.

Then the rest of the episode focuses on the most obvious reveal ever and rehashing the tiresome drama surrounding Endeavors past action yet again...

This whole charade would have been more effective and the general publics reactions would have felt more believable if we hadn't seen Best Jeanist in the first few minutes of the episode.

[Kanon]

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

That’s what I was thinking. Nevertheless, Endeavor still comes off looking pretty dismal (and not undeservedly).

He’s become something of a tragic figure based on his seeming realization of just what a tool he’s been and what the responsibilities of a #1 hero are. But I think the essential truth of Endeavor’s arc is that he’s fundamentally unfit to fill All Might’s shoes. Even if he feels guilty about it now (and I’m not sure he feels guilty enough) he can’t undo the damage he’s caused.

I'm actually surprised it took this long for his past to catch up to him. It's not like his wife spending years in an institution is a well kept secret, a good reporter should have been able to sniff out a story there.

Worked out for the best for Dabi though. Endeavor managing to make it to number 1 makes his revenge a lot sweeter. The timing was perfect.

If he hadn't been severely injured against AFO, I wonder if Best Jeanist would have picked over Endeavor for the spot of number 1. He has the popularity, power, and moral character necessary. Hawks also appears to be a good choice at first glance, but we know his past is also problematic. The others aren't good enough.

Originally Posted by Chosen_Hero

Oh boy, so the whole thing with Toga went nowhere... great.

Then the rest of the episode focuses on the most obvious reveal ever and rehashing the tiresome drama surrounding Endeavors past action yet again...

This whole charade would have been more effective and the general publics reactions would have felt more believable if we hadn't seen Best Jeanist in the first few minutes of the episode.

I think it was the same in the manga, but showing Best Jeanist at the beginning of the ep was definitely a storytelling mistake. I'm sure no one bought that Hawks killed him, but he spent a long enough time off-screen for people to have forgotten about him and his return to action to be a big surprise.

Also, that zoom on his crotch with the initial "BJ" on his belt buckle... LOL.

[GDB]

How odd, I could've swore in the manga that Spinner liked Bakugo's name, but he called it lame in the anime.

[Kanon]

That was probably the most badly animated episode of the entire series. And there's no movie this time, so I am genuinely curious why this season is suffering such a downgrade. As far as I can tell the main staff didn't change.

Originally Posted by GDB

How odd, I could've swore in the manga that Spinner liked Bakugo's name, but he called it lame in the anime.

Nah he called it lame too.

[ChainLegacy]

Regarding the latest episode: I have to include myself in the sympathetic camp for Endeavor here. I consider him to be a confused person, as so many of us are in this world full of contradictions and opportunity for internal confusion.

The thing is: every human society is competitive and it is almost seen as a moral failing to not unlock your truest potential (Protestant work ethic, meritocratic East Asian cultural mores), but it goes even beyond humanity. The animal world is brutally competitive too. Not pushing yourself to higher limits means you and your offspring become lunch to a hungry lion.

So while I think there are philosophical undercurrents throughout humanity that try to get at an “objective” truth that absolves us of this destructive competitive urge (Buddhism, Stoicism, etc), it’s very, very hard for people to separate the concept of being dependable, responsible, and morally upright in the sense that you are a valuable member of society, from this competitive, brutal urge we all have in both our DNA and our human cultures, to varying degrees.

Endeavor is a survivor – and maybe his survival instincts have gone haywire and been bent out of place by the immoral failings of envy and greed, but he feels all too human to me. He was trying to do what he thought (and was likely taught by his own parents and society) was the right thing.

Don’t get me wrong – society teaches you not to act as a despot to your children, but like I said, both society and our DNA provide conflicting messages. It’s a state of confusion, which allows negative thought patterns like envy to go unquestioned internally. He was corrupted in an understandable way — his actions unforgivable, but the root of his confusion all too human.

Not to get too meta, but I’m perhaps set up to sympathize with Endeavor quite a bit as I see a lot of resemblance to my own father: a good man who made mistakes as a byproduct of doing what he thought was right and responsible. We don’t see much of Endeavor’s childhood, but my dad was just repeating the cycle that was taught/inflicted upon him for hundreds of years by our ancestors.

I’d imagine Endeavor is much the same based on how he’s depicted here – there are aspects of pure “goodness” within him, but they are twisted by confusion that invited immoral actions into their behavior. Immoral actions that we as viewers find reprehensible, and rightly so, but actions which may have been encouraged and reinforced by a long line of familial (and societal) culture.

[Guardian Enzo]

I have a very different opinion about Endeavor (though I think Horikoshi is in your camp), but I love that he's a character who forces the audience to think about stuff like this. Props to Horikoshi for his whole arc.

[Guardian Enzo]

People just don't give this series credit for how great it is most of the time.

[Kanon]

I caught after putting it on hold at the beginning of the season and the last few episodes have been really good, although I'm really not a fan of Deku wanting to save Shigaraki.

Looking at comments on other forums, I did wonder if the anime properly conveyed just how much Endeavor cared about Toya's well-being. While Endeavor did some unforgivable things, him not caring about Toya is not something we can accuse him of. His horrible handling of the situation added fuel to the fire, but to me Toya was unhinged from a pretty young age. We see this in the way he holds the women of his family in contempt. I can understand why he wouldn't think too highly of his mother, but he treated Fuyumi the same way. Not to mention he tried to kill baby Shoto in a fit of rage and jealousy. After this they should have taken him to a psychiatrist ASAP.

I like that Rei doesn't fully reject responsibility for how Toya turned out on her husband. She'd be in her right to after everything she endured, but she acknowledges she also could have done better in educating their son.

[Guardian Enzo]

All fair points. But it’s also fair to ask why Touya was so unhinged at that early age.

[GDB]

Honestly, I felt the anime made Endeavor more sympathetic/did a better job showing that he cared about Toya than the manga. I may just not be remembering this part of the manga very well, but I think I remember coming away from that set of scenes in the manga with the notion that past Endeavor was an actual monster rather than just a piece of crap.

[Kanon]

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

All fair points. But it’s also fair to ask why Touya was so unhinged at that early age.

While the story is trying to make parallels between Shoto and Toya, I think Deku and Toya's stories are more similar. They both aspired to be heroes and were told they never could be because of their physical limitations. Neither of them moved on, but one became a murderous psychopath and the other a fairly balanced kid. Why is that? Was it truly just their environment?

And it's not Endeavor's fault, the worst thing he did to him was neglect him after Shoto was born. I recall that back when Dabi revealed himself to be Toya, people (mostly his fans) expected him to have been treated like utter garbage by his father and were surprised he was actually treated the best out of all four kids.

The Todoroki family storyline is my favorite thing about this manga because it's surprisingly complex for a battle manga. Nothing is black and white, and everyone is to blame to some extent. It's also inspiring how Rei of all people is the one who united the family again, even if Natsuo says it's just temporary.

Originally Posted by GDB

Honestly, I felt the anime made Endeavor more sympathetic/did a better job showing that he cared about Toya than the manga. I may just not be remembering this part of the manga very well, but I think I remember coming away from that set of scenes in the manga with the notion that past Endeavor was an actual monster rather than just a piece of crap.

I remember reactions to the manga chapter being the opposite of the ones I'm reading about the episode. I haven't actually bothered checking if my memory is correct. I might be confusing this flashback with the latter one showing how Toya became Dabi.

[Cloudedmind]

Originally Posted by Kanon

While the story is trying to make parallels between Shoto and Toya, I think Deku and Toya's stories are more similar. They both aspired to be heroes and were told they never could be because of their physical limitations. Neither of them moved on, but one became a murderous psychopath and the other a fairly balanced kid. Why is that? Was it truly just their environment?

And it's not Endeavor's fault, the worst thing he did to him was neglect him after Shoto was born. I recall that back when Dabi revealed himself to be Toya, people (mostly his fans) expected him to have been treated like utter garbage by his father and were surprised he was actually treated the best out of all four kids.

The Todoroki family storyline is my favorite thing about this manga because it's surprisingly complex for a battle manga. Nothing is black and white, and everyone is to blame to some extent. It's also inspiring how Rei of all people is the one who united the family again, even if Natsuo says it's just temporary.



I remember reactions to the manga chapter being the opposite of the ones I'm reading about the episode. I haven't actually bothered checking if my memory is correct. I might be confusing this flashback with the latter one showing how Toya became Dabi.

I would personally argue yes. Deku had people who supported him, while Toya did not. I think the point Enzo is trying to get at (But correct me if I'm wrong Enzo) is that you can't put that kind of responsibility on a young child, and then cast them aside when you have a better option, and expect them to cope with the sudden change in expectations and attention. It also doesn't help that as far as we can see neither of his parents really sat down and explained the why for the change. All he understands is that he's not good enough because he'll get burned.

So yes while Endeavor clearly showed concern for Toya's physical wellbeing, he did a shit job explaining that to the person who needed to hear it most, and as such didn't take into account the boys emotional wellbeing.

[Guardian Enzo]

Originally Posted by Cloudedmind

I would personally argue yes. Deku had people who supported him, while Toya did not. I think the point Enzo is trying to get at (But correct me if I'm wrong Enzo) is that you can't put that kind of responsibility on a young child, and then cast them aside when you have a better option, and expect them to cope with the sudden change in expectations and attention. It also doesn't help that as far as we can see neither of his parents really sat down and explained the why for the change. All he understands is that he's not good enough because he'll get burned.

So yes while Endeavor clearly showed concern for Toya's physical wellbeing, he did a shit job explaining that to the person who needed to hear it most, and as such didn't take into account the boys emotional wellbeing.

Yes, I’m very comfortable with that interpretation of what I said.

You can’t say Endeavor didn’t do anything wrong because he obsessively groomed Touya to be a hero from a way too early age - cementing in his mind that being #1 was all that mattered, and that was the only way to get Daddy’s love. He did a lot more to Touya than just abandon him.

[Kanon]

To me it goes back to the age old nature vs nurture debate. I'm not saying it's one or the other in this case, but that Toya's nature also played a part in him becoming a serial killer. Same with Shigaraki, for that matter. I don't think Shoto or Deku would have turned out this way even without support. Of course, there's no way we'll ever know.

Incidentally, there's one case in this series where it was pretty much 100% nature: Toga.