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Old 2015-10-22, 13:25   Link #81
Stark700
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Episode 3:

Magata is still such a strange character still...

15 years. 15 years of not coming out of that room and no one ever entered. They really got 15 years of video records? I find that almost hard to believe but is possible. Pretty sure that wedding dress also has a deeper meaning. I think the show is trying to construct the basis of this dark story while connecting events of the past.

That ending was kinda creepy....

I'm still not sure how I feel about the story so far with these three episodes.
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Old 2015-10-22, 14:46   Link #82
Botan_TM
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Originally Posted by Stark700 View Post
Episode 3:
I'm still not sure how I feel about the story so far with these three episodes.
Exactly my thought. Well, to judge a mystery is good to know a solution, and that may take a while.
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Old 2015-10-22, 15:13   Link #83
AC-Phoenix
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stark700 View Post
Episode 3:

Magata is still such a strange character still...

15 years. 15 years of not coming out of that room and no one ever entered. They really got 15 years of video records? I find that almost hard to believe but is possible. Pretty sure that wedding dress also has a deeper meaning. I think the show is trying to construct the basis of this dark story while connecting events of the past.

That ending was kinda creepy....

I'm still not sure how I feel about the story so far with these three episodes.
Has she really been in there for 15 years? I doubt it.
This mystery is pretty much set for this not being the case being part of the conclusion.

My theory in form of a Q&A

Sisters
The 'younger' sister appears to be older. Thus it is a valid possibility that it was in fact the younger sister who was locked in there and not Dr. Magata.
Coincidentally they look like twins, which is probably the case why the girl that just arrived cut her hair.
I thus conclude that thtere is a good chance that Dr. Magata was never locked in there in the first place. And if she was she wasn't the one who killed her family back then but her sister.

Next is the statement that nothing ever enters or leaves this room this is pretty incorrect.
While it is true that no human can fit through the mail box single pieces or tools would easily fit through, thus opening up a way for the murder weapon.

This is also a way to get the limbs out in case they are not in later.


But how did the killer get in?!
The question isn't how he got in, but how they got out.
The purpose of that wedding dress is actually pretty simple - namely it is meant to disguise that a human is hiding under it which is also part of the reason the limbs got cut off.

Which brings us to the next piece of the puzzle namely that there has to be a way for those robots to get into that room, probably they are allowed to go in and out of the door, so its easy to just hitch a ride inside there - or in this case out of it.

moreover the robits are likely allowed to enter through the front gate as it was suggested that things too big for the mail box are being delivered through the door.

Ok I understand that but how did she get killed?
There are a few possibilities.
As mentioned before the mail box is large enough for single pieces like tools to fit through.
Thus the culprit could have used whatever he brought through the mail box to kill her.

Another possible way is a modified robot as a tool for murder, and she was killed using the system 'Red Magic' (or blood magic) whicch would be fitting considering how this crime seems impossible.

Ok but how did the killer kill the director?
Obviously the killer took his chance to escape in a moment no one was looking at the tray robot and crawled out from under the dress.

But how did they get past those other doors?
Conclude from the next one.

You said the dress as a hiding spot was just one reason they cut her limbs off, what are the others?
Well for starters its a lot harder to identify whether it is the younger or older sister if her Hand and feet prints are missing.

The other reason is that you can use the prints to move freely within the facility. While it was explicitly stated that there is no way for Dr. Magata/Magata sister to get out of the room, they never stated she wouldn't be able to move through the facility if she got out.
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Last edited by AC-Phoenix; 2015-10-22 at 16:01.
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Old 2015-10-22, 15:37   Link #84
Kunagisa
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The novel takes a few hours to consume; the anime will take 2-3 months to finish. I am not sure if that's a wise decision for most of the audiences.

I am enjoying the pacing personally, especially the Shiki bits. For a 13 yr old, she knows quite well how to present herself. Can you still say this is ephebophilia, which I personally believe is closer to being a correct term in this case, if her mind surpasses that of most adults IQ and EQ wise? Age of consent always has been in discussion, and wide range across culture and time periods suggest that general consensus has not been reached; yet, I'm sure many could agree Shiki is an exception to the norm even if an agreement exists.

Recall the advertisement for this series. In Mori (the author)'s mind, or the setting for this this book if you will, the average person will choose to settle at the gray areas between two extremes of justice/evil, right/wrong etc., but a genius can exist at both of the far ends of a spectrum at once. Not compromising but not conflicting. I guess this is part of the charm of how Shiki can be so provocative for the people who understand and got to converse with her.

Very disappointing that I can't listen to the audio drama, I'm sure that would further boost the enjoyment of this show. Personally for a case to be successful, both motive and method should be carefully divulged; the anime has been quite stellar at dealing with the former with such limited time allocation, in my opinion.
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Old 2015-10-22, 16:46   Link #85
~Yami~
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egh.. that creepy ending...

anyway, I also don't know what should I feel toward this anime
but one thing I'm sure is that I like the interaction between Moe and Saikawa-sensei
Considering that both are smart, I like the way they tried to propose all kinds of scenarios.. seems like they are competing..
It is so fun
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Old 2015-10-22, 17:09   Link #86
kuromitsu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AC-Phoenix View Post
The 'younger' sister appears to be older. Thus it is a valid possibility that it was in fact the younger sister who was locked in there and not Dr. Magata.
That's my current theory, too. They went out of their way to note that the younger sister looks "older" but they also conveniently look very similar. And of course that this "incident" has been programmed into the system.
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Old 2015-10-22, 17:22   Link #87
FlareKnight
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Yami~ View Post
egh.. that creepy ending...

anyway, I also don't know what should I feel toward this anime
but one thing I'm sure is that I like the interaction between Moe and Saikawa-sensei
Considering that both are smart, I like the way they tried to propose all kinds of scenarios.. seems like they are competing..
It is so fun
Yeah, I think the dynamic with those two is the thing that has kept my interest so far. It is interesting seeing them both throw things out there and have the ability to poke holes in the theories that each comes up with. While by Moe's own admission Saikawa is overall smarter than her, she's still pretty darn intelligent. After all it took meeting someone like him for her to finally encounter someone smarter than her.
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Old 2015-10-22, 20:05   Link #88
Wolfpack
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I really like this show so far.

The following is me reaching. There's no evidence for it. Most of it's born from my imagination that ran away.

I was expecting Miki the younger sister to really look younger than Shiki because I had assumed Shiki had a child or something. For some reason being locked up for 15 years struck a cord within me, and made me think she had been pregnant at the start of her imprisonment. Now that we've seen Miki, I can see that I was off, unless she's really Shiki and her daughter was the one that died in that room.

My other theory was that she somehow has uploaded a portion of her consciousness or her mind is somehow connected to the facility. The reason I believed this was because of a comment she made to Moe about being satisfied with her current situation because "many things had been born from her." This comment from Shiki, combined with her relationship with her uncle, is what originally spawned my idea of her being pregnant. The way the system is named Deborah made me think of her consciousness being linked or being based off of somehow.
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Old 2015-10-23, 00:22   Link #89
Jaden
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Oh, I'm liking this mystery now. I've no idea what is happening, though.

Given how the show is telling Magata's backstory and hyping her up as a mega genius, it seems wrong that she would just get killed off here. Rather it would be natural that everything happening is somehow part of her design...

...BUT it's also strongly hinted that she wasn't the one who killed her parents, so there's another culprit out there. And there's also the possibility that she wasn't really the "brains" of the laboratory, but rather a prisoner there.
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Old 2015-10-23, 09:57   Link #90
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The reaction of the characters to the murder were really weird. They're stuck in a laboratory with a murderer on the loose and they all act like this is just another day at the lab. I guess it's partly explained because they didn't reveal the gruesome details of the murder to everybody, but still.

Anyway, this is obviously not the real Shiki that died. That would be too anti-climactic even if it appears this series is trying to break the convention (what with Moe and Aizawa commenting on how people would act in a mystery novel). I'm sticking to what I said last week: Shiki switched places with her sister before the murder. I believe it happened only recently. I don't see the point of lying about Shiki's identity for 15 years. The 15 years of recordings prove nothing, Shiki is presumably a genius without peer, she could have easily found a way to manipulate them.
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Old 2015-10-23, 13:38   Link #91
AC-Phoenix
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Originally Posted by Kanon View Post
The reaction of the characters to the murder were really weird. They're stuck in a laboratory with a murderer on the loose and they all act like this is just another day at the lab. I guess it's partly explained because they didn't reveal the gruesome details of the murder to everybody, but still.

Anyway, this is obviously not the real Shiki that died. That would be too anti-climactic even if it appears this series is trying to break the convention (what with Moe and Aizawa commenting on how people would act in a mystery novel). I'm sticking to what I said last week: Shiki switched places with her sister before the murder. I believe it happened only recently. I don't see the point of lying about Shiki's identity for 15 years. The 15 years of recordings prove nothing, Shiki is presumably a genius without peer, she could have easily found a way to manipulate them.
Its actually rather easy to switch places given that the door was opened several times and the robots can apparently move around freely there. i think they intentionally give the wrong impression that the door itself was never opened before, so people overlook that the guard actually said that they had to deliver a microwave that didn't fit through the mail box
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Old 2015-10-23, 16:41   Link #92
Draco Spirit
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Something I noticed in this episode was the guard has a musical instrument with headphones that facing away from the door.. so if he was playing it he would be oblivious to what was going off at the cell door. Oh and the IT system has been compromised, so hacked footage is fair game too, meaning getting in and out of that door not impossible for a skilled person who planned well.
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Old 2015-10-23, 17:03   Link #93
IceHism
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A random thought but could the killer have hid underneath the wedding dress and got out that way
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Old 2015-10-23, 17:39   Link #94
cyth
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Another random thought: would it be possible to squeeze the cut-off head and torso through the mailbox and assemble it there? Perhaps the murder didn't take place inside the prison.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanon View Post
The reaction of the characters to the murder were really weird. They're stuck in a laboratory with a murderer on the loose and they all act like this is just another day at the lab. I guess it's partly explained because they didn't reveal the gruesome details of the murder to everybody, but still.
I am also amazed how light-heartedly everyone took this fact, except for the hipster dude. It destroyed all my efforts to suspend disbelief.

As much as I want to like the mystery, it doesn't feel very natural. Everything feels like it's set up for the sake of it. The locked room, the "perfect" OS and security system, not to mention the AI "going out of control", as if that's a common occurrence. The bride fetish probably won't have a good explanation anyway.

Maybe these locked room mysteries simply aren't for me. That being said I'm still interested in the conclusion. I do feel like Moe's got something to do with the murder though. It would be funny if she turned out to be the killer. The squeaky-clean, well-fed rich girl image could be turned into a glorious red herring. She is probably jealous over Saikawa being so enamored by Magata, that's a good reason to kill another person in these silly dramas.
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Old 2015-10-23, 23:42   Link #95
Eater of All
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Originally Posted by cyth View Post
As much as I want to like the mystery, it doesn't feel very natural. Everything feels like it's set up for the sake of it. The locked room, the "perfect" OS and security system, not to mention the AI "going out of control", as if that's a common occurrence. The bride fetish probably won't have a good explanation anyway.
If this is a proper locked room mystery, I'm going to assume that the perfect OS is meant to imply that footages and such are not hacked, and that what Saikawa said about this being in the works ever since v0 of Red Magic (I keep wanting to type North Korea's Red Star ) is the full extent of the system's involvement. If we can't believe in that, then really any deus ex machina explanation involving the facility playing tricks is possible, which doesn't make for a good mystery.
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Old 2015-10-24, 00:10   Link #96
AC-Phoenix
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Originally Posted by Draco Spirit View Post
Something I noticed in this episode was the guard has a musical instrument with headphones that facing away from the door.. so if he was playing it he would be oblivious to what was going off at the cell door. Oh and the IT system has been compromised, so hacked footage is fair game too, meaning getting in and out of that door not impossible for a skilled person who planned well.
The door is still being opened from within his security chamber. you don't ned to hack the footage though. You can simply hitch a ride on those robots.


Quote:
Originally Posted by IceHism View Post
A random thought but could the killer have hid underneath the wedding dress and got out that way
Please refer to my post above.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cyth View Post
Another random thought: would it be possible to squeeze the cut-off head and torso through the mailbox and assemble it there? Perhaps the murder didn't take place inside the prison.

I am also amazed how light-heartedly everyone took this fact, except for the hipster dude. It destroyed all my efforts to suspend disbelief.

As much as I want to like the mystery, it doesn't feel very natural. Everything feels like it's set up for the sake of it. The locked room, the "perfect" OS and security system, not to mention the AI "going out of control", as if that's a common occurrence. The bride fetish probably won't have a good explanation anyway.

Maybe these locked room mysteries simply aren't for me. That being said I'm still interested in the conclusion. I do feel like Moe's got something to do with the murder though. It would be funny if she turned out to be the killer. The squeaky-clean, well-fed rich girl image could be turned into a glorious red herring. She is probably jealous over Saikawa being so enamored by Magata, that's a good reason to kill another person in these silly dramas.
A macabre theory, we will have to wait for the examination of the room before we can tell though.
As for the reason for the wedding dress please refer to my earlier post. Pretty sure this is going to be the solution; that part is rather easy as there was no other way to get out if the culprit was indeed inside the room before they opened it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Eater of All View Post
If this is a proper locked room mystery, I'm going to assume that the perfect OS is meant to imply that footages and such are not hacked, and that what Saikawa said about this being in the works ever since v0 of Red Magic (I keep wanting to type North Korea's Red Star ) is the full extent of the system's involvement. If we can't believe in that, then really any deus ex machina explanation involving the facility playing tricks is possible, which doesn't make for a good mystery.
Well its easier to get inside the room than one would think. Its not even half as much of a closed room as Umineko's closed rooms.
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Old 2015-10-24, 00:23   Link #97
Flower
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In terms of emotional reaction this series is an unsettling and even eerie tight rope balance between an odd combination of disinterest peppered with a non-engaged curiosity...like a bored intellectual playing with ideas purely to keep himself occupied at the moment and curious to trace the paths of where an idea might go. Am all for ideas and intellectual content, and portrayals of ideas gone wrong or succeeding or whatever (last winter's Death Parade is a great example of this) - but not like this.

I still don't really know what to think of it...and part of me feels that this odd, awkward, out-of-joint feeling is precisely what the series is trying to generate to hold the attention of the viewers. It feels...well, like trying to walk on a giant waterbed, somehow.

Will say, though, that the animation style and the way of drawing the characters works very, very well in creating this off-balance of off-kilteredness.

But do I want to expose myself to a series that cultivates this odd experience on a weekly basis? At the moment I am not. I will likely be dropping the series.
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Old 2015-10-24, 11:50   Link #98
janipani
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Something else than harem nonsense? Yes!

I have been waiting for something decent to come up.
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Old 2015-10-26, 00:58   Link #99
kuroishinigami
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Originally Posted by Kanon View Post
The reaction of the characters to the murder were really weird. They're stuck in a laboratory with a murderer on the loose and they all act like this is just another day at the lab. I guess it's partly explained because they didn't reveal the gruesome details of the murder to everybody, but still.

Anyway, this is obviously not the real Shiki that died. That would be too anti-climactic even if it appears this series is trying to break the convention (what with Moe and Aizawa commenting on how people would act in a mystery novel). I'm sticking to what I said last week: Shiki switched places with her sister before the murder. I believe it happened only recently. I don't see the point of lying about Shiki's identity for 15 years. The 15 years of recordings prove nothing, Shiki is presumably a genius without peer, she could have easily found a way to manipulate them.
But there hasn't been anyone entering/exiting the room for 15 years. How do you think the switch happen?
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Old 2015-10-26, 11:23   Link #100
Alf
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I'm wondering the possibility that it's actually Miki being killed by her uncle several days ago and her body being cut into several parts and slipped through the smaller door which is 25x25x35cm. So that Shiki was actually in the room and slipped out of the room during the reset sequence when everyone was having their attention on the cart.

It's pretty obvious that it has to be Shiki the genius to modify the system, and she wouldn't be plotting something to get herself killed before this game hers is over. That relationship between the girl and the uncle might drive him to follow her instructions to commit a murder, and she is sure to kill him to get his mouth shut.

The problem is, of course, how do you slip the body parts through the guards.
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