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Old 2015-11-06, 23:59   Link #141
SeijiSensei
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf View Post
The viewer is expected to take it as an "oh-so-cool" spiel by a highly intellectual professor who is supposedly a genius in his field (which is what, incidentally? The anime never makes clear)
I thought he is a computer scientist. Note, for instance, that his student, Moe, observes that the operating system used at the facility doesn't look like Unix. That suggests she, and presumably Saikawa himself, have more than a passing acquaintance with computer science. All the business about F, the largest hexadecimal number, and the ED with its visual references to Motif and the "Game of Life" also fits with this notion.

Saikawa must have brought along a half-dozen cartons of cigarettes given the pace at which he chain-smokes. I rather expected the staff at the facility to refuse his request to smoke inside and was surprised when they didn't seem to mind. Maybe he needs to return to camp to restock. I notice A-1 worked hard to animate his smoke clouds realistically.

(Paul Ryan, the new Speaker of the US House of Representatives, told an interviewer that he and his staff were looking into methods for removing the residual smell of cigarettes from the Speaker's office after John Boehner's tenure.)


Last edited by SeijiSensei; 2015-11-07 at 00:15.
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Old 2015-11-07, 09:39   Link #142
GMT
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf View Post
I think what especially annoyed me about Saikawa's self-indulgent faux philosophical rambling was the fact it was preceded by the use of Bach's Cello Suite No. 1 in the soundtrack. The viewer is expected to take it as an "oh-so-cool" spiel by a highly intellectual professor who is supposedly a genius in his field (which is what, incidentally? The anime never makes clear), but what I get instead is a rehash of the all-too-familiar nihilistic themes found in many other Japanese stories.
His expertise appears to be computer science, like that of his hero Magata Shiki. He probably never set foot in an upper-level philosophy class. Also, one can be at the top of their field while knowing almost nothing about other fields. Take, for example, Ben Carson (a contender for the American presidency); who was a gifted pediatric neurosurgeon ... but believes the Egyptian pyramids were grain silos.

None of this is intended to defend the fact that Saikawa is both full of shit, and blinded by his Magata Shiki fanboyism ... but is meant to illustrate that the show might not be going out of its way to present him in a positive light, and his utterances as gospel.

I mean, he asserts that Magata is the ultimate expression of pureness ... even though the show goes out of its way to show the viewers that she was nuttier than this actual bag of nuts that I'm eating right now.

Fortunately, Saikawa is counter-balanced by Moe.
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Old 2015-11-07, 10:02   Link #143
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Technically Saikawa does have a point, as Magata's morals (or lack thereof) are different from a normal person's, so it's rather pointless for Moe to try holding Magata to her standards. The point he was trying to make was that humans naturally are "forced" to distinguish what thoughts to act on and what not to act on as they mature, while Magata does whatever she wants because she's clever enough to get away with it.

With that said, everything Saikawa has said about Magata has been sugarcoated. Obviously she's not "pure", she's a psychopath who is guilty of murder. What Saikawa refers to as being "tied down" is just morality and a sense of responsibility that any adult should have.
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Old 2015-11-07, 10:22   Link #144
janipani
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Originally Posted by Hiroi Sekai View Post
Really? I find it to be frighteningly engaging. The conflict in Moe and Saikawa was especially good- the emotion Moe gives when she realizes what her idol is saying hit me pretty hard.
Well that was pretty much only salt this episode had, but this episode as a whole wasn't working for me. Yet, there are some people who say that this episode make more sense when watched on second time, so maybe I should try that.
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Old 2015-11-07, 10:35   Link #145
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For some reason I think Magata hasn't killed her parents.
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Old 2015-11-07, 10:39   Link #146
Shadow5YA
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Even if she didn't actually do it, she would still be an accomplice given what we were shown.
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Old 2015-11-07, 12:43   Link #147
Anh_Minh
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Originally Posted by Botan_TM View Post
For some reason I think Magata hasn't killed her parents.
Well, they insist so much on it, it can't possibly be true.
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Old 2015-11-07, 18:19   Link #148
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The debate between Moe and Saikawa was interesting. I agree that Saikawa is pretty much a follower of Nietzsche (a dumb philosophy in my book too), but the important point he was making is that Magata really think like that, and understanding that important to understand the logic in her actions.
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Old 2015-11-08, 05:17   Link #149
Cosmic Eagle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Draco Spirit View Post
The debate between Moe and Saikawa was interesting. I agree that Saikawa is pretty much a follower of Nietzsche (a dumb philosophy in my book too), but the important point he was making is that Magata really think like that, and understanding that important to understand the logic in her actions.
Quote:
That's classic Nietzsche, the idea that morality is for the weak, and that talented individuals should cast aside all attempts by society to tie them down, so that they can achieve their full potential. It's the same philosophy that led eventually to facism, and the dangerous belief that a master race is entitled to rule over "lesser races".
You realize Nietzsche has almost nothing in common with what you are thinking of or what is popularized by mass media? If anything, Nietzsche is an anti-nihilist. Also, nowhere does he advocate destructive behaviour. Just because he holds a different moral structure does not mean he is suddenly a champion of dictators and genocides. Please don't mix him up with....Ayn Rand or something
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Last edited by Cosmic Eagle; 2015-11-08 at 05:28.
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Old 2015-11-08, 06:08   Link #150
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Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle View Post
You realize Nietzsche has almost nothing in common with what you are thinking of or what is popularized by mass media? If anything, Nietzsche is an anti-nihilist. Also, nowhere does he advocate destructive behaviour. Just because he holds a different moral structure does not mean he is suddenly a champion of dictators and genocides. Please don't mix him up with....Ayn Rand or something
Neither did Confucius argue for total obedience to ritual in order to achieve an ideal relationship between leaders and followers; nor does Islam call for unthinking adherence to syariah laws to maintain a moral society. But both ethical systems were interpreted and practised in ways that promoted conservatism, to the point of ossifying entire societies.

My point? I'm more than aware of what Nietzsche argued for — with regard to what he believes to be the proper motive of human endeavour, and why his beliefs, like those of his predecessor Arthur Schopenhauer, are a huge hit especially with artists — but it's also true that his philosophy had unintended social consequences that have been explored by historians, and not just in popular media, as you so smugly claim.

But, hey, it's been years since I touched philosophy with any degree of rigour, so I'm not about to start in reaction to a passive-aggressive retort by some individual who is apparently much more familiar with the subject than I am at this time.

You're very much welcome to explain further in Nietzsche's defence, because it'll be quite ironic for me to do so, given that I firmly believe that this particular anime has not that much to do with philosophy, and more with being a detective thriller.

It'll work a lot better, I feel, by focusing on what works as a mystery, rather than delving in cool-sounding pseudo-philosophy that's ultimately of only tangential importance to the story.

Last edited by TinyRedLeaf; 2015-11-08 at 06:25.
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Old 2015-11-08, 06:33   Link #151
Cosmic Eagle
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That's why you cannot call it "classical X."

Otherwise you'd be saying ISIS is classical Islam or something
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Old 2015-11-08, 07:45   Link #152
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf View Post
I think what especially annoyed me about Saikawa's self-indulgent faux philosophical rambling was the fact it was preceded by the use of Bach's Cello Suite No. 1 in the soundtrack. The viewer is expected to take it as an "oh-so-cool" spiel by a highly intellectual professor who is supposedly a genius in his field (which is what, incidentally? The anime never makes clear), but what I get instead is a rehash of the all-too-familiar nihilistic themes found in many other Japanese stories.
I'm still wondering what was Magata's research field. AI? Operating systems? Obviously she became famous for being such a young university graduate, but her field hasn't been stated very clearly. Instead, she was called a "genius programmer" by several people, including Saikawa, as if they were tabloid journalists. Given that Mori Hiroshi had been a researcher himself and a physics engineer to boot I find that quite strange.

Speaking of Mori, while reading through his Wikipedia article I noticed this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wikipedia
In 1989, Mori became an associate professor at Nagoya University at the age of 31. He received a Doctorate of Engineering with a thesis on a numerical method for analyzing the flow of viscous plastic. Interestingly, Mori preferred not to become further promoted to professor, stating that he would lose his valuable research time to trivial meetings and other business. In March 2005, he resigned his post to become a professional writer.
I'm convinced Saikawa is Mori's insert. Mori sounds like a nut too.
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Old 2015-11-08, 23:53   Link #153
Pennywhether
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Originally Posted by Botan_TM View Post
For some reason I think Magata hasn't killed her parents.
Maybe her uncle did it and she took the fall since she's a genius scientist minor and wouldn't get in nearly as much trouble.
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Old 2015-11-12, 14:26   Link #154
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Episode 6:
Not going to lie, that murder scene at the end was creepy especially with the presence of the doll in the flashback.

Kinda interesting at how Moe was able to figure out the elevator part of the case. On a lighthearted note...she got drunk lmao. As far as they got into this case, I still feel like something is missing.
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Old 2015-11-12, 14:54   Link #155
Shadow5YA
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Originally Posted by Pennywhether View Post
Maybe her uncle did it and she took the fall since she's a genius scientist minor and wouldn't get in nearly as much trouble.
As I mentioned before, it doesn't matter either way.

If her uncle did it, it's still strongly implied she put him up to it, so she would still be an accomplice. There is no way she is innocent.
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Old 2015-11-12, 15:34   Link #156
Botan_TM
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So it looks both made it. She killed mother, but I think it can be said both killed father.

So the most obvious guess is that somebody wanted to take revenge on them?

And indeed a end of murder scene was creepy.
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Old 2015-11-12, 18:13   Link #157
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A lot happened in these last two episodes. I'm not sure how I feel about some of the more gimmicky elements in the story (younger sister that looks just like her, multiple personalities, etc), frankly I would've preferred the story not using them. But maybe they'll lead to somewhere interesting. I'm also not sure of how I'm supposed to feel about some of Saikawa's musings (that I personally think are a load of bullcrap). I guess I'll see if he ends up being shown as right or not.

But the above aside, things connect really well and really elegantly. Words or phrases or thoughts that may seem insignificant come back as a refrain, the Shiki-Moe parallel is developing nicely (with some really nice writing/directorial solutions), with Moe having grown into the most interesting character in the story. I'm not particularly invested in the mystery itself (it will be solved eventually, I see no point in theorizing), but the characters are carrying the story more than well.

Btw, the more I listen to Yamane the more I wonder if Suzuki Tatsuhisa intentionally does a performance that makes the character extremely irritating, or if it's unintentional. Because damn he's extremely irritating, and I really wish the seiyuu would speak more naturally (well, as much as anime speech is natural, anyway).
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Old 2015-11-12, 18:43   Link #158
~Yami~
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ah.... now I conclude that Shiki Magata is a sick and twisted person after that creepy murder flashback

seems like finally Moe and Sensei managed to connect the clues
I like the way they reconcile though.. especially drunk Moe scene

let's see... the killer most likely the aunt, right? since she might hold grudge about how Magata changed her husband into his own brother murderer
The other possibility is that one of the crew is the uncle himself
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Old 2015-11-12, 21:33   Link #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kuromitsu View Post
Btw, the more I listen to Yamane the more I wonder if Suzuki Tatsuhisa intentionally does a performance that makes the character extremely irritating, or if it's unintentional. Because damn he's extremely irritating, and I really wish the seiyuu would speak more naturally (well, as much as anime speech is natural, anyway).
I almost feel like he's trying to do that cultured intellectual drown you'll sometimes here in American shows or games, and whatever Japan's equivalent of that might be. When I first heard him I thought of Mr. Trout who can be heard here from an old Nancy Drew game I have. I agree it's a bit irritating though, but at the same time I kind of want to give him kudos for doing a voice type I've never heard from him before.
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Old 2015-11-12, 22:21   Link #160
orion
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Originally Posted by ~Yami~ View Post
ah.... now I conclude that Shiki Magata is a sick and twisted person after that creepy murder flashback

seems like finally Moe and Sensei managed to connect the clues
I like the way they reconcile though.. especially drunk Moe scene

let's see... the killer most likely the aunt, right? since she might hold grudge about how Magata changed her husband into his own brother murderer
The other possibility is that one of the crew is the uncle himself
What about the sister being substituted by the real Magata and the sister killed in her place?

Both legs and arms are missing. So by the time the cops get there, they may not have much to identify the real Magata.
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