What sports can fill the niche for women's sports anime?

[Flower]

Little side point regarding women's lacrosse being in anime form, there have been series where the MC played in at school, but the genre was not a sports one. So there has been a few examples of it in anime.

[judasmartel]

Just an update about women's field hockey. Japan is actually ranked 11th in the world out of 35 nations in women's field hockey, only behind #8 China and #9 South Korea; the Netherlands is the current World #1 in women's FH. Meaning, 1) female Japanese FH players IRL are at least quite good at the sport to go with the incredible fanservice potential of the women's field hockey uniform (ZR cannot be beat), and 2) lots of potential to see more foreign characters from outside the US and Western Europe; since China and Korea are ranked higher than Japan, hopefully a hypothetical WFH anime can start the trend of featuring more honorable Korean and mainland Chinese characters (most of the time, Chinese in anime are from HK or Taiwan, but are never specified to be from the mainland).

Surely, you would realize KnB isn't really all that realistic when Japan isn't even among the top dogs in international men's basketball; but you can say YoI is realistic even if you didn't know they actually got a real-life figure skating expert with them on board because among the current top male figure skaters in the world is the Japanese Yuzuru Hanyu.

So basically, for a girls' field hockey anime to be REALLY successful, it must have strong and realistically human characters from both the hero team and the opponent teams as always; but in addition, the fanservice can be amped up to Keijo-level or even higher, but the production must get a real-life field hockey expert with them on board so that the moves and plays depicted will be at least comparable to what FH fans can see in RL youth/professional/international level play.

[kencana]

Originally Posted by judasmartel

As the title states, because more often that not, most of the great sports anime nowadays involves men's sports and are derided for being fujobait yaoi goldmines more than for being sports shonen crap.

It's funny they call it fujobait considering Kuroko, Haikyuu, Tenipuri, etc etc is from SHONEN manga. It is aimed at straight boys. Beside Yuri on Ice, there's no canon gay/bi men in sports anime. So I'm confused where the hell is "fujobait" coming from considering most guys in Haikyuu too busy leering of cute girl

As for women sports anime, is mixed martial arts considered sports? I would love to see Teppu anime adaptation. There's also ecchi sports anime called Sekai de Ichiban Tsuyoku Naritai! Idk if the plot is good.

Female sports anime also doesn't well compared to male sports anime. It's funny considering anime with Cute Girls Doing Cute Things usually doing well.

[judasmartel]

Originally Posted by kencana

It's funny they call it fujobait considering Kuroko, Haikyuu, Tenipuri, etc etc is from SHONEN manga. It is aimed at straight boys. Beside Yuri on Ice, there's no canon gay/bi men in sports anime. So I'm confused where the hell is "fujobait" coming from considering most guys in Haikyuu too busy leering of cute girl

As for women sports anime, is mixed martial arts considered sports? I would love to see Teppu anime adaptation. There's also ecchi sports anime called Sekai de Ichiban Tsuyoku Naritai! Idk if the plot is good.

Female sports anime also doesn't well compared to male sports anime. It's funny considering anime with Cute Girls Doing Cute Things usually doing well.

Haikyuu (and to a lesser extent KnB) does have quite the LGBT following, or at least those yaoi doujins circulating around the net. It does help that HS boys' volleyball is played at a very high level in Japan. I am pretty sure this "yaoi-fanbait" trend is new, and it eventually culminated with YoI, basically THE anime that will hopefully change how LGBT relationships are handled in the medium.

MMA can be considered sports, but exactly how many beautiful MMA fighters are there? You can only count them with only one hand. Keijo comes close if you really stretch the definition of MMA, but it's too fanservicey for me to take seriously as a female sports anime. It's sad how every single anime these days must be sexualized to the hilt and are designed to make the readers feel good regardless of actual writing quality or else dem otaku won't buy crap. It doesn't matter if a certain sports anime is realistic or not, it only needs to have sexy bodies, period.

Well, women's sports aren't really regarded as highly as men's sports; thus non-sporting CGDCT titles perform much better than women's sports titles, which technically are CGDCT's with sports.

[kencana]

Originally Posted by judasmartel

Haikyuu (and to a lesser extent KnB) does have quite the LGBT following, or at least those yaoi doujins circulating around the net. It does help that HS boys' volleyball is played at a very high level in Japan. I am pretty sure this "yaoi-fanbait" trend is new, and it eventually culminated with YoI, basically THE anime that will hopefully change how LGBT relationships are handled in the medium.

If KyoAni make MakoHaru canon in Free I will be really happy. I doubt I will see an actual canon gay couple in Haikyuu or KnB considering it's shonen. But there's always hope for non-shonen sports anime.

Originally Posted by judasmartel

t's sad how every single anime these days must be sexualized to the hilt and are designed to make the readers feel good regardless of actual writing quality or else dem otaku won't buy crap. It doesn't matter if a certain sports anime is realistic or not, it only needs to have sexy bodies, period.

Keijo bombed in BD/DVD sales. I guess fanservice doesn't always sells. But I agree that we need more female sports anime with good story that isn't filled with fanservice. Chihayafuru is great. Have you ever watched Shakunetsu no Takkyuu Musume?

[Verso Sciolto]

Originally Posted by kencana

... Chihayafuru is great...

Tagging on at the bottom - Though slightly off topic, I thought it was interesting to note here that the Chihayafuru manga was included in the Art category on the Nippon Foundation's list of 100 titles selected for Manga Edutainment. The entry has a little thought bubble about that. According to the February 15 news feed on that site, Chihayafuru landed on the number 10 spot:here.

Maybe the sports category (10) has some entries among its 12 titles that would make for good anime adaptations for the purpose of this thread, something like Asahinagu perhaps.

Also curious how something like Sasameki Koto might fit in a thread like this. In a niche within a niche, perhaps? A niche reserved for stories in which a sport or sports competition isn't the primary focus of the narrative but where a sport nevertheless fulfils a crucial role in the identity of a female character - in the context of societal expectations and self-image - as karate does for Sumi in this particular story.

To end on a Chihayafuru related note ... Judas Martel wrote about Chihayafuru: gender is irrelevant in Karuta. To which SeijiSensei replied "Chihaya plays against men as part of team karuta, but her personal goal is to become the "Queen." The notion that she might aspire to become the Meijin seemingly never crosses her mind."

I've been waiting for Chihaya or Shinobu -or any one of the other women for that matter- to have that thought cross their mind, voice the question casually or challenge the notion openly and directly to the sport's governing body that they ultimately must compete alongside men not against men for karuta's separate crowning titles in January each year. Even though they routinely encounter each other head on in other karuta tournaments not divided by gender. In that sense gender isn't entirely irrelevant in karuta. Separate tournaments do still exist and one of them happens to be the most prestigious one. Perhaps uncharacteristically Chihaya has appeared to be content with that if only in that single setting. Somewhat odd indeed.
A story in manga, anime and Live Action that has had real world impact on the sport it promotes but not in that sense - in its depiction of gender roles, as far as I know.

[judasmartel]

Originally Posted by kencana

If KyoAni make MakoHaru canon in Free I will be really happy. I doubt I will see an actual canon gay couple in Haikyuu or KnB considering it's shonen. But there's always hope for non-shonen sports anime.

Of course, you won't see any official gay couples in Haikyuu or KnB because it's shonen. Still doesn't stop fujoshis from shipping whoever guys they want to ship.

Come to think of it, I think only Free is criticized mostly for fujobaiting, since as you mentioned, Haikyuu and KnB are shonen, so yaoi pairings are much less likely than in say, Yuri on Ice.

Originally Posted by kencana

Keijo bombed in BD/DVD sales. I guess fanservice doesn't always sells. But I agree that we need more female sports anime with good story that isn't filled with fanservice. Chihayafuru is great. Have you ever watched Shakunetsu no Takkyuu Musume?

Yes, fanservice doesn't always sell, but it increases the likelihood that titles with fanservice in it will at least have some sort of publicity, if not really sell a lot. You can literally count on one hand modern-day sports anime that doesn't rely on fanservice or ridiculous physics-breaking powers just to sell.

Shakunetsu, sadly, is more on the fantastic side, what with ridiculous perception-altering moves. Are those moves even possible to pull off in real-life table tennis? Nonetheless, female Japanese table tennis players are still one of the best in the world, and they are quite the hot ladies as well. China still heavily dominates table tennis though. The competition within Chinese pingpong is so intense Chinese players who can't get to represent China in international tournaments get themselves naturalized as foreign players just so they can play in the World Champs or in the Olympics, and these naturalized Chinese players are miles better than any local player of whatever nation they represent.

Originally Posted by Verso Sciolto

To end on a Chihayafuru related note ... Judas Martel wrote about Chihayafuru: gender is irrelevant in Karuta. To which SeijiSensei replied "Chihaya plays against men as part of team karuta, but her personal goal is to become the "Queen." The notion that she might aspire to become the Meijin seemingly never crosses her mind."

It was not me who wrote it, but anyways, you can chalk it up to the incredibly macho culture of Japan (still not as incredibly macho as Korea or China though). People in the Chihayafuru universe, Chihaya included, probably thought only men can become Meijin, so there you are.

[Verso Sciolto]

Originally Posted by judasmartel

It was not me who wrote it, but anyways, you can chalk it up to the incredibly macho culture of Japan (still not as incredibly macho as Korea or China though). People in the Chihayafuru universe, Chihaya included, probably thought only men can become Meijin, so there you are.

My mistake, kitten320 wrote that.

I'd say that in the case of Chihayafuru it is possible that the female mangaka - for whatever reason - espouses or perhaps even promotes a "traditional" culture through that one single tournament in which genders are separated. The reason why Chihaya would not have that thought aren't explained in-universe and I'd even say that from Chihaya's behaviour in nearly all other situations it seems like something Chihaya should be questioning. By her very nature Chihaya transcends some of the gender boundaries yet she appears to accept this particular in-equality. Revel in it, even.

[kencana]

Originally Posted by judasmartel

Of course, you won't see any official gay couples in Haikyuu or KnB because it's shonen. Still doesn't stop fujoshis from shipping whoever guys they want to ship.

Come to think of it, I think only Free is criticized mostly for fujobaiting, since as you mentioned, Haikyuu and KnB are shonen, so yaoi pairings are much less likely than in say, Yuri on Ice.

Yeah, If every single anime that featured hot guys is fujobait, that mean Jojo, 91 Days, Saint Seiya, Gundam IBO, etc etc is fujobait Free (and maybe Battery) is the one I would consider baiting. It's a non-shonen sports anime that clearly targeting women. In KnB you can see Satsuki huge breasts shoved on screen, but in Free there's barely any nudity involving Gou.

Originally Posted by judasmartel

It was not me who wrote it, but anyways, you can chalk it up to the incredibly macho culture of Japan (still not as incredibly macho as Korea or China though). People in the Chihayafuru universe, Chihaya included, probably thought only men can become Meijin, so there you are.

Actually gender equality is much better in China . I'm of Chinese descent. In China there's a wisdom that 'women hold up half the sky'. Chinese women don't need to change their last name when they get married. My mother and grandmother keep their last name while Japanese women change their last name. Half of the world’s self-made women billionaires are from China.

[judasmartel]

Originally Posted by kencana

Actually gender equality is much better in China . I'm of Chinese descent. In China there's a wisdom that 'women hold up half the sky'. Chinese women don't need to change their last name when they get married. My mother and grandmother keep their last name while Japanese women change their last name. Half of the world’s self-made women billionaires are from China.

Yeah, and when a female member of the Japanese Imperial Family marries a commoner, they will have to give up status as a princess and live like a commoner!

However, there are instances wherein it's the guy who instead has to change his surname, but it's incredibly rare these days, I think.

Nonetheless, what an enlightening piece of thought. Nice quote, too. Thank you.

[SeijiSensei]

Originally Posted by Verso Sciolto

[kitten320] wrote about Chihayafuru: gender is irrelevant in Karuta. To which SeijiSensei replied "Chihaya plays against men as part of team karuta, but her personal goal is to become the "Queen." The notion that she might aspire to become the Meijin seemingly never crosses her mind."

I've been waiting for Chihaya or Shinobu -or any one of the other women for that matter- to have that thought cross their mind, voice the question casually or challenge the notion openly and directly to the sport's governing body that they ultimately must compete alongside men not against men for karuta's separate crowning titles in January each year.

I think you meant the opposite, "compete against men not alongside them."

The same issue arises in Shougi. In Shion no Ou Shion competes in the womens' division except in the privately-financed competition that has mixed genders. Early in the series the current Meijin is watching one of her matches and says that Shion's strength might be a good argument for eliminating the division between men and women in Shougi. As of today, though, the mens' and womens' events and ladders are separate.

[Verso Sciolto]

Originally Posted by SeijiSensei

I think you meant the opposite, "compete against men not alongside them."

Currently, "... they ultimately must compete alongside men not against men..."

The current situation mandates that women compete alongside men in stead of against men for the highest titles in karuta and it is this notion I'd like to see challenged. So that, in the future, there won't be any more finals in January where two gendered pairs sit back to back on the tatami at Omi Jingu to decide who becomes either Queen or Meijin. So that, in the future. the Meijin would be either male or female.

Like you, I find it odd and a little disappointing that Chihaya never questioned that division - that notion - since she quite eagerly and competently competes against boys throughout the series. Disappointing that the thought never crosses her mind.

Spoiler for Chihayafuru:

[The thought that she could defeat Arata and become the best player in the world rather than become a pair of champions, one male one female - as in the original dream they envisioned as children.]

The same goes for the other girls and women who likewise compete against and often defeat boys and men - but never challenge that notion that, for the highest titles they are divided into gendered categories, where different rules apply for the male competitors than for the female competitors - although nominally it can perhaps be said that the titles are of equal value. One male champion and one female champion, each year.
They've proven there is no need for that by winning other tournaments but for the ultimate crown they must, currently, still sit alongside, not opposite men, and receive a separate title at the end of separate finals.
Currently, gender is still not entirely irrelevant in karuta although it could be.

Spoiler for Chihayafuru:

Which could result in a Meijin final between Chihaya and Shinobu; or Shinobu v. Taichi; or Arata v. Taichi; or any other current Meijin v. challenger ... if only someone thought about changing the system as it has existed in the series ... Who would be the challenger and who would be the Meijin in that scenario for the first year the rules are changed? Have the current Queen [Shinobu] and the current Meijin [Suo] challenge each other in a play-off first, I suppose...

[SeijiSensei]

Spoiler for more Chihayafuru:

I'd like to see Arata v Shinobu myself. Arata would have to climb to the top of the ladder first, of course. Chihaya and Taichi can wait their turns. I always found Shinobu one of the more appealing characters in Chihayafuru with her mix of a maturity while playing karuta and her girlish character when she's not. The episode where she disrobes after getting wet in the rain is a good example of the latter.

[Verso Sciolto]

Originally Posted by SeijiSensei

Spoiler for more Chihayafuru:

I'd like to see Arata v Shinobu myself. Arata would have to climb to the top of the ladder first, of course. Chihaya and Taichi can wait their turns. I always found Shinobu one of the more appealing characters in Chihayafuru with her mix of a maturity while playing karuta and her girlish character when she's not. The episode where she disrobes after getting wet in the rain is a good example of the latter.

I've posted my Chihayafuru specific reply in the Season Two thread for that series, here.

Thread related edit:

Spoiler for Chihayafuru:

I wrote: "Like you, I find it odd and a little disappointing that Chihaya never questioned that division - that notion - since she quite eagerly and competently competes against boys throughout the series. Disappointing that the thought never crosses her mind.... "
... though, I can add a note, for this particular thread, that it is among the reasons why I find Chihaya so interesting since she and Shinobu as well, per your example, do not give such matters of gender much thought at all...

... and the naming convention for the two titles given the respective champions can also be questioned, if they insist on not taking our advise on foregoing the gender division in the future. Why Queen and Meijin? Emperor / Empress as alternatives wouldn't get my vote either.

[Toukairin]

I have watched the recent women's ice hockey tournament at the Olympics. The Japanese women's team did quite well considering how little international experience they have. They lost 3-1 against the Swiss, who are the dominant force in that group, and 2-1 against the Swedes. However, what I liked most about the Japanese approach was how hard they pressed their opponents in both matches. And finally, that approach paid off as they defeated the host nation in their final group stage by a score of 4-1 earlier today.

I don't know about you, but it looks like ice hockey is now something that can gain some traction for an anime project. I think KiraYamatoFan's comments from a while ago are spot on, especially since the Japanese women's team kept on growing betwen Sochi and PyeongChang. The gap between Japan and other top nations is not as big as it once was, not too long ago.

[SeijiSensei]

So the first entrant in this category has appeared, and the sport involved is ... wait for it ... beach volleyball.

https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/new...ashita/.126838

Did anyone suggest that sport in this thread? Who knew Japan was in love with beach volleyball?

Couldn't be because the standard uniform in this sport is a bikini? Nah, that's not the reason.

[Toukairin]

I don't think anyone ever suggested beach volleyball as the main sport for an entire series/franchise. It's the kind of stuff you keep for one episode, an OVA special, or official art in anime magazines. So I'm quite surprised they went down that route when there are more popular sports than that in Japan.