Angel Beats! - Episode 13 (END) Discussion / Poll

[Knightrunner]

Originally Posted by rrw

if anybody complain about undeveloped character. i susgest go read track zero LN or heaven gate manga because it explain SSS before otonashi appearance. so it explain many hing like creation of SSS and other members back story (yes, it official and written by jun maeda)

I think that is another reason why I thought the series was okay. I was able to read some of the novel chapters.

[krko]

Let get this out of the way first: Yuri and Kanade were incredibly cute this episode

The non-linear relationship between the afterlife's time and mortal time would've been okay, had they chosen to foreshadow it even a little. It wouldn't been hard too, just have a few characters refer to real-world events that Otonashi can't remember. [sarc]Or you know, just have Yuri say it without proof. After all that's how they found out that Kanade was an agent of God, that there are no suicides in this world, that software controls the world, and that you can't go back to normal after being turned into an npc.(Various states of rigth and wrong)[/sarc] Besides that, I don't get why Kanade was reborn so long before Yuzuru. Why did she have to suffer the attacks of the SSS (they got weapons before she used Angel Player) when she only wanted to say thank you to the person who saved her life? It seems as if their world is designed to produce tragic situations for observers.

Kanade and Yuzuru's relationship really didn't come as surprise. In fact, I suspected it during episode, confirmed it by mapo-tofu episode.

The ending was meh. The animation was inconsistent, which is pretty bad for a finale. I guess the slight OOCness of the character can be explained by the feeling of triumph they're experiencing, due to them resolving all of their issues. The graduation ceremony felt really awkward. And the end, I was thinking that "so they're gonna be like bodhisatvas" but the reveal really felt like it came out of nowhere.

[fischkopp123]

Yes, that "let's stay together in this world forever" part ridiculed much of what Otonashi did before. With all the backflashs we've seen so far, it just doesn't fit his character in my opinion. I also didn't buy the romance part, because there was no believable build-up for it. However, what pisses me off the most is the missing logic in the order of events. As many people have already realized, the afterlife battle front was fighting against Kanade long before Otonashi appeared in the afterlife world. Nevertheless, Kanade has his heart, which was transplanted into her body after he died in the real world. This just doesn't add up, because how can Kanade reach the afterlife world before Otonahsi after receiving his heart after he died. Some people speculated, that there could be some kind of time lag between the afterlife world and the world of the living and that people reach the afterlife after different amounts of time, which would mean, that Kanade died after Otonashi, but reached the afterlife before him due to her time lag being shorter than his. While that might be a good and obvious theory, there is nothing in the series, that supports that theory and not even Otonashi gets this obvious inconsistency after he is confronted with the truth. To me, that's just grasping for straws to make sense out of this contradiction. Leaving that kind of stuff to the imagination of the viewer is just bad storytelling in my opinion.

That's what I hate about so many other animes, where the creators do a decent job until the last five minutes of the last episode, where they tend to bungle the whole thing in so many awkward ways. That has alreday killed so many shows. However, there are many shows, that are very predictable and don't even try to be original in any way (i.e. Mayoi Neko Overrun, anyone with a brain and half a year experience in japanese anime knows how this show developes and ends). What makes it worse is, that Angel Beats initially looked like a show, that would try hard not to come across as generic and, well, I actually think, that it isn't generic at all, but they screwed up in a different, preventable way and that's just sad.

Luckily I wasn't expecting too much since a few episodes back, where they really started to annoy me with their idling about. Angel Beats did have so much potential with a good basic plot, seemingly deep and likeable characters, drama and very good music and character design. But even though you have all those resources, you have to use them wisely and that's what hasn't been done. Some episodes were rather good, but then they started to idle around, showing unessential stuff (like the episode, where they try to go past all the traps in order to reach the guild or when Kanade was split and apprehended and they had to fight her copies) or painfully stretching some important events. Yeah, the stretching was also very annoying for me. And then they realize, that they have to hurry and finish the series until the 13th episode and everyone gets into a state of panic and this is the outcome. The last five minutes were deplorable. They could've at least shown what happened to everyone after they were reborn, but there was nothing but void.

Otonashi was the most fleshed out character and I thought, that they did a pretty good job (except for his voice, which I didn't like at all) with him until the aforementioned last five minutes. Everyone else was just flat for me, because I had the impression, that they purposely tried to avoid a deeper develelopement of the other characters by just giving hints at their past and never really explaining the events that directly led to them appearing in the afterlife world, aside from having had a fucked up life until their death. Sorry, but there was so much time to focus on the really important stuff, without forfeiting the comedic part, but they just decided to turn it into pure disappointment in the end. Just like Clannad afterstory, where they turned the whole thing into some kind of awkward magical girl show in the end.


As much as I liked the idea, characters, music etc. and no matter how much potential Angel Beats had in the beginning, the storytelling and plot developement was done in an unprofessional way, so it seems to me. Man, that's so sad.

[Gono]

Originally Posted by Knightrunner

How can they all be in Coma when Yuzuru gave up his heart? I'm sure he is pretty much dead.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_heart

If your asking why they took his heart if they were going to replace it anyways, I point to any of the bigger holes in the series.

[majestix1988]

without a heart you cannot feel love....

[zette]

lol okay what the hell.

The episode itself was rather satisfactory - a rather emotional graduation scene, and a nice confession scene. Kanade is cute as usual and I couldn't stop laughing at the graduation because of how ridiculous Hinata looked when acting as the principal.

But the series as a whole, seriously now? There's so many plot holes and loose ends that I really find it hard to believe this shit was written by Maeda; maybe my expectations were too high, knowing that this is the same guy who wrote Clannad and Kanon -- I admit, they probably were -- but that is no excuse for this piece of mess. Maybe the show needed more episodes, maybe it needed to be told in a better way, I don't know. All I know is that this show was a waste of massive potential.

7/10 for the episode, +1 for Kanade cuteness; 5/10 for the series as a whole.

[Dr. Casey]

I figured out why Otonashi got there after Kanade

He was an organ donor.

That means his organs (and by extension him) were still technically alive.

He couldn't go to the after life until all his organs died and he was completely dead.

He only didn't get his heart back because Kanade had it and she was already there so it sent him to purgatory since part of him ended up there.

Post from GameFAQs. It's a nice theory, might have been what Maeda had in mind.

[kitten320]

zette
As far as I heard novels explain far more things than anime. And this series are almost twice shorter than Kanon and Clannad so no wonder they seem rushed. It is not authors fault but animation team. If series were extended, they would have been better. So lets hope for a long remake, Kanon series did get one so Angel Beats has a chance.


About episode itself, I'm as many others am lost as to how Kanade ended there before Otonashi and why did she thank him when it looks like she still died young and I doubt tha she had received his heart when she was in kindergarden... Though have several theories:

1. She is not dead but in coma - but probably not because she said she came here because of regret so she probably died.
2. 1 extra year or somehing was enough for Kanade to be thankful.
3. She actually lived much longer and died much older but because her regret was connected to Otonashi who is a teenager, her sould became younger and came to this world.

As to how Kanade got there before him... I guess Otonashi was lost for way too long... or as someone pointed out, him being a donar had extended his body life while being frozen or something, that's the only theories I have in mind.

The Kanade/Otonashi relationship didn't come as a suprise to me, it was forshadowed long time ago. Yuri/Otonashi or Hinata/Yuri would be far more akward. Seriously from where did you people get Hinata/Yuri? They never crossed my mind. Is it because of their constant fighting? Because I really would have a WTF moment if any of those happened in this episode.

About series over all... too mant plot holes and cool characters were completly ignored. I really wanted to know more about some of the characters but them simply dissapearing just like that was anti climatic

But since I liked the begining, animation, music, characters... I still give this series 9.


But I'm seriously hoping for re-make.

[Karlson]

I won't get into all the analysis going on with what to make of all the potential plot holes but I will say that I've shed tears in anime before but here in this episode I felt absolutely nothing whatsoever. Could be the result of me lacking that emotional investment in the characters of this series or that I'm all too used to Key/Maeda being Key/Maeda with their endings (that epilogue I so easily saw coming), though I'm inclined to believe that the episode just lacked the execution it needed overall (on top of being once again rushed with those other SSS members dissapearing off-screen but you know...beating a dead horse with that argument lawl).

Whatever the case may be, they just didn't deliver that emotional punch here for me like it seemed to for many of you. The graduation was pretty lame overall and whole confession scene was way too sappy for me.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Marcus H.

Kanade never killed someone on a whim or with killing intent.
Also, she admits her Guard Skills are never made for offense, just like what the name suggests.

I think Kanade thought that she can find the person who has given her heart is by stabbing them straight into the chest. (There are no proofs for this, but this might be the reason why she ends up being an enemy.) That thought caused a misunderstanding which lasted for a long time.

Also, there is no god.
Otonashi believes the same thing, and Yuri has been proven wrong after seeing many proofs debunking her ideology within the series.

When does Otonashi outright state that he doesn't believe in the existence of God? Yuri never seems to settle on that question either.

And the anime certainly never definitively states if God exists in its world or not. So much of the entire setting of the anime is left unexplained. At times, it feels like the matrix from The Matrix trilogy, and for all we (still) know, it might be just like that.

This is part of what I meant by how this anime leaves a great deal up to personal interpretation.

This isn't necessarily a negative, but it means that there's not much basis for making definitive statements about the setup of this anime, and its setting.

[Myssa Rei]

Plus taste is dependent on the viewer; you might like Angel Beats and think it's the best ever, but folk like me found it entertaining but a show with a severe lack of focus. I'm taking a postgraduate degree in Creative Writing, darn it, so I KNOW that there were a lot of things off with it.

[Qikz]

I really did enjoy it, but one way I think would of made it excellent, is rather than everyone going off on their own to start with, if everyone in the series had the graduation and not just those five characters. Meaning they all dissapeared together, I think there could of been alot more emotion in that, but I still really enjoyed it.

I must admit one thing, Yuri/Kanade both became about five million times more moe this episode some how.

[Mikenter]

I loved the series but I watch anime like I listen to music. Everything and anything. Personally I like TMoHS 2009, even with the endless eight, and K-on!. That might mean I'm either insane or have low standards.. Or both.

This series deffinatly left something unfulfilled yes, but I still liked it. I'm really sad to see that almost everyone but those five were side characters at best. It doesn't seem like there's going to be a second season either. I hope a VN will clear this up. I mean it's very vague and I wish this anime would have explained a lot of things more, I'm still happy.

One of my biggest thoughts is the "How did Kanade come to the afterlife before Oto?" What I personally think is Oto wandered around in an "in-between" state because as we know, he shouldn't have been there to begin with. And Kanade died two years after getting the heart. If I got a heart transplant that saved my life even for a short time, I'd be so thankful. Though what Dr. Casey quoted also makes a lot of sense.

I doubt there'll be a second season, maybe a remake though. I would say a re-make would wait until all the rest are done, so the two manga and the novel. Also they're probably going to wait and see how much money they can make off it...

[Triple_R]

I will say that, after watching this series, I don't know if 13 episodes is enough to develop two romances, have lots of physical conflict, have major character development (essentially the entire SSS Brigade changes after Otonashi does), have character focus episodes, and have a coherent plot.

I think that the anime did great on character development. It really sold me on that.

The character focus episodes were excellent as well.

The conflict was fun to watch, but never felt particularly engaging to me.

The romances were like a punchline without a setup, or a good climax without a story. You get the sense that with good setup it would have been a great climax to a romance, but the time just wasn't there to build up Hinata/Yui or Otonashi/Kanade as much as what should have been. That might be why some weren't moved by episode 13. Tomoya/Nagisa was very carefully and steadily developed in contrast, which is why the big romance moments involving them had more of an impact for me.

As for the plot, I think I get what Maeda was aiming for, but there may have been too many plot twists. And I say that as a guy that usually loves plot twists.

Angel Beats! probably could have been better with it lasting 24 or more episodes, yeah.

[arkxkra]

Both graduation and confession also not that bad. Just that the confession in the episode is abit too sudden for me, same goes to the heart transplant but I think it doest matter now.

still a lot of thing didnt explain though... well overall was a great anime 9/10 :').

Actually I do hope to see Yui and Hinata in afterlife, wish there is a special ova talk about all of the character afterlife .

btw, are both Otonashi and Kanade become lover in afterlife since both of them wearing a similar necklace, or just coincidence?

[Crontica]

HAHAHAHA The ending was fantastic mind you, the characters fantastic, the plot? Had the potential to stand on top of Avatar the last Airbender.

The anime however failed shitty bricks. This show was clearly a diamond alright, there just wasn't enough bloody episodes to support it.

[Archon_Wing]

What... the.... fuck....

Ok, the heart thing was romantic, and despite the cheesiness I liked it. But I don't even know how to rate this episode atm. I'll post back later. But it kinda just landed with a thud.

[Antiscian]

A decent finale, I guess - the highlight of this series will always be the Yui episode to me.
The heart transplant thing was a pretty good explanation, and what I particularly liked was the final scene before the credits; Otonashi, portrayed so far as the hero and saviour of all the SSS, gives in to weakness, struggles, and we realise that he's just a human as well.
Similar to Yuri in a way, in that when his job is done he finally lets his private feelings take over his duties.
The message I got from it, especially considering Otonashi's hypocrisy in wanting Kanade to stay for his own slightly selfish reasons, was that this isn't a story about Otonashi teaching morals or being a role model or anything like that. He was just a man who tried doing what he could, and this is a story about everything that came from that.

I'd actually say it's slightly Shakespearian in a way, in light of all the zigzagging that the plot undergoes. The story takes a back-seat; the show is all about its characters, and people in general, and the conclusions and goals they decide on, whether they're right or wrong.

Though yeah, sending away all the supporting leads just like that was a bit of a cop-out.

[Crontica]

Originally Posted by Archon_Wing

What... the.... fuck....

While we recover from the impending flood of Yuzuru x Kanade fanatics that will soon flood the Image boards, lets take a moment to notice that they just reversed the ED. The ED that a random watcher edited and reversed at ep 4 for the lulz only for a dim omen to dawn on him. That omen just hit pay dirt.

[guuchan]

Just watched the last 3 episodes in one go. Still need some time to digest them so not going to comment in details for now, but a few responses to the points mentioned in this post:

1. About Otonashi recognizing the song Kanade hummed in next life. Sometimes you find someone seeming familiar even though both you and that person are sure that you two have never met before. Or sometimes you find what's happening in front of you seems really familiar as if you have experienced/dreamed about it before (I have run into that quite a few times myself). There's a theory that it's memory you carried over from your previous life, but whatever the true reason is, it does happen.

2. KnM reference. Maybe a little bit, but considering I rememer KnM so well since it was my first subbing project and I didn't relate to it when I saw the scene in AB, I wouldn't say they really resemble each other that much. Besides, I'm pretty sure similiar scene also took place in some other shows which I can't recall.

3. Yes, Yuri became very cute in this episode, but still nothing beats Kanade, especially when she said "Yuduru, onegai", then calling his name again. Even someone with a heart made of stone can't say no to that, right?