(L) Hachimitsu to Kuroba/Honey and Clover

[cheesie]

In my excitement, I completely forgot this isn't exactly the most appropriate place to post about it. Perhaps we could convince a mod to transfer these spoiler posts to the manga section, if it's not too much trouble for them?

[Yotsuba]

Originally Posted by crisis

In my excitement, I completely forgot this isn't exactly the most appropriate place to post about it. Perhaps we could convince a mod to transfer these spoiler posts to the manga section, if it's not too much trouble for them?

Yeah, ahaha. I think it's because less people visit the manga thread, really. It was nearly forgotten till this chapter.
This new revelation gave the series a good kick in the pants, I guess. Aaaah, I'm fangirling~!

Everyone I've asked said, "Morita is out of the picture now. He already said he had given up."

I FEEL LIKE RUBBING IT IN THEIR FACES.. but I won't.. because I'm nice. *cough*

[cheesie]

I FEEL LIKE RUBBING IT IN THEIR FACES.. but I won't.. because I'm nice. *cough*

Spoiler:

I'm not sure if there's any reason for that, considering Takemoto is hardly out of the race himself. If anything, despite my utter bias for MoritaxHagu, I see Takemoto having a higher chance of 'winning', shall we say, and whether or not this particular chapter serves to advocate MoritaxHagu or just another stumbling block for Takemoto is up to question.

Takemoto's just so good for Hagu, that it'll be so easy for her if she ends up with him. But no matter how good of a person he is for her, it won't matter if Hagu doesn't love him; if she reciprocrates Morita's love, then it just shows that she picked him because of her feelings, and not 'the easy way out'. (Appalling choice of words, I know, but despite Takemoto being a sweetheart, where his relationship with Hagu is concerned, I'm having a tough time seeing Takemoto otherwise. )

Anyway... shall we take our discussion to the manga section now? Kaoru Chujo does have a point when she says we might be tempting fellow anime-viewers unnecessarily.

[mangafanatic]

I'm sure it's been announced in here already-- but everyone's heard about the second season of Honey and Clover, right [As reported by ANN]? I would go back to check, but I sense Honey and Clover manga spoilers. :lol: Since I haven't gotten to read the series yet, I'm avoiding such spoilers like the plague.

[aliensporebomb]

Don't do it. I'm still freaked out about it three days later.

I would have to say that unless you really want to have an idea of
what is going on and it might not be what you personally want to
see happen I would just avoid it and be surprised by season two like
everyone else.

[tritoch]

I predict that a new girl will be introduced to us which will pair up with Takemoto.

Morita in the series is like your bestfriend, trustworthy (Count how many times he was there for everyone.) I think what makes Morita so good is that he's too passive throughout the series. Remember when he was asked by Shuu and Mayama about what he felt and he quickly raced out. (episode 23 eventhough he really never understood Hagu's feelings at that time and thought that only Takemoto can make her feel better). I think it is this rare occasion that he totally miscalculates the situation. As for Hagu's confused state, she aready had it before Takemoto left so most probably its because of her indecisivenss to be independent. Remember Morita had a conversation with Shuu about it then Shuu then realizes "Your prince isn't the type that would tell me 'Isn't it your duty to look after her.'" That was Takemoto's calling. Only Takemoto can make Hagu happy but does it really have to be romantic? Also Hagu's reply to Takemoto's confession really doesn't show anything near 'love'.

From what I read Morita x Hagu.. An answer to episode 23. If I look at it, Takemoto x Hagu reminds me of Shuu-Hagu; But this time its Hagu that's fostering Takemoto (evidence found last third episodes during his adolescence tower.) Sound familiar? It parallels the shuu/harada/rika triangle very well (yet another pair is ayu/nomiya/mayama is also paralleled well)

As for Mayama/Rika -- Mayama took the route Shuu didn't with Rika. As far as I can see Mayama/Rika will turn out fine not because Mayama is stubborn but because Rika will open up (Mayama's growth is near i think provided that Ayu grows first).

Ayu/Nomiya pair fits perfectly that it makes sense not just plot wise but real life wise. (hence no resolution for Ayu at the end of the series since she still borderline between Nomiya/Mayama and hopefully ultimately chooses Nomiya, heck Nomiya is far better than Mayama right now.)

Whew lengthy post and hopefully most of you would read it and not make it total garbage. I provided events from the episodes to support my case. thanks

[Yotsuba]

I was listening to DRAMATIC, and I really think the lyrics might be from Hagu's POV to Morita.
It makes a lot of sense to me, especially with Morita leaving after he kissed her.

Spoiler for DRAMATIC lyrics:

Lost promises and memories don't dissolve into the stars
As I search for a four leaf clover
I steal a glance at your face, and then turn my eyes away
How many nights have passed since that happened?
Am I running away from something that I don't like?
Changing clothes, I take a look outside the window
Taking a deep breath, the scenery is different than it should be
I wonder if that day will come when I, again
will be able to meet up with you, who is so important to me
The scars you left behind won't go away
We have to go to
Our respective places now..

The poplar trees on the roadside, and the love letter that I haven't sent
I've turned and waved my hand goodbye many times
Even though I saw everything that I pictured when I was young
In order to see if it could all come true
A gentle rain falls above us
And a great number of people pass by one another
It turns into something dramatic
Lost promises and memories
don't dissolve into the stars, they're by my side
Now my heart shines purely, and I can't see through my tears
A single modest shooting star
Is in the palm of my hand

I wonder if that day will come when I, again
will be able to meet up with you, who is so important to me
The kiss you left behind won't go away
We have to go to
Our respective places now...

[Grifis]

Originally Posted by crisis

Well, I'm not sure about that part, more like

Spoiler:

"Just wait for me, so please don't lose interest in me" for me. To which I'm so touched when Morita puts her fears at ease. ;_;

Same thing dear (just more on the dramatic side).

Spoiler:

Between them, the rivalry is there (partially because they like each other). Their expessions of love are not in words but in how hard they create their works to be worthy of the other (or so they thought). This reminds me of the relationship between the two main characters, Shizuku and Seiji from Whisper of the Heart. They're both competent artists and they like each other. When Seiji left for Italy to become an apprentice to make violins, Shizuku pressured herself to write a story. It was her way of expressing her feelings to him. It's similar to the time Morita left for America, Hagu was so motivated to create arts because (somewhere 'he' was trying his best as well.)

And so Morita and Hagu speak their feelings in words, feelings that they've been hiding all this time. Those words are not direct but still full of affection for each other. It is clear to me that Takemoto was never in the picture to begin with (from this POV.)

[Yotsuba]

Originally Posted by Grifis

Same thing dear (just more on the dramatic side).

Spoiler:

Between them, the rivalry is there (partially because they like each other). Their expessions of love are not in words but in how hard they create their works to be worthy of the other (or so they thought). This reminds me of the relationship between the two main characters, Shizuku and Seiji from Whisper of the Heart. They're both competent artists and they like each other. When Seiji left for Italy to become an apprentice to make violins, Shizuku pressured herself to write a story. It was her way of expressing her feelings to him. It's similar to the time Morita left for America, Hagu was so motivated to create arts because (somewhere 'he' was trying his best as well.)

And so Morita and Hagu speak their feelings in words, feelings that they've been hiding all this time. Those words are not direct but still full of affection for each other. It is clear to me that Takemoto was never in the picture to begin with (from this POV.)

Wow, completely agreed! When Takemoto asked her, "do you want him to come back" and she said she didn't, until he had accomplished all he needed to do really spoke to me as well. and you can tell how hurt Takemoto was by that. It wasn't what he expected. After that kiss, she matured a LOT.

[aliensporebomb]

Originally Posted by tritoch

I predict that a new girl will be introduced to us which will pair up with Takemoto.

Spoiler:

Like I said before - does his friend on the work team who gave him
the road bike have a single sister?

Originally Posted by tritoch

Morita in the series is like your bestfriend, trustworthy (Count how many times he was there for everyone.)


I think what makes Morita so good is that he's too passive throughout the series.

Spoiler:

I'm thinking of a scene in episode 24 "How can you doubt my
pure love?" shouting at Takemoto (while T is clad only in boxers in
the makeshift Mayama-shower outside!).

I have no doubt that Morita believes he's doing the right thing but he's
so erratic it can be hard to figure it out. Hiding honest feelings behind
jovial exchanges - a very "guy" thing to do.

Originally Posted by tritoch

Remember when he was asked by Shuu and Mayama about what he felt and he quickly raced out. (episode 23 eventhough he really never understood Hagu's feelings at that time and thought that only Takemoto can make her feel better).

Spoiler:

A master at art, terrified of feelings/relationship. Check!

Originally Posted by tritoch

I think it is this rare occasion that he totally miscalculates the situation.

As for Hagu's confused state, she aready had it before Takemoto left so most probably its because of her indecisiveness to be independent. Remember Morita had a conversation with Shuu about it then Shuu then realizes "Your prince isn't the type that would tell me 'Isn't it your duty to look after her.'" That was Takemoto's calling. Only Takemoto can make Hagu happy but does it really have to be romantic? Also Hagu's reply to Takemoto's confession really doesn't show anything near 'love'.

Spoiler:

Yeah. Conclusion of Episode 24:

Takemoto: "I'm in love with you."

(Brilliant - confident, happy smile, he's finally got it off his chest....)

Hagu: (long pause, tearing up, mildly terrified) "Thanks for coming back."

Not the response I would have wanted to hear. And the look on her
*face* is what kind of told me that it wasn't what T wanted to see/hear.

But dropping a bomb like that can have unexpected results.

[brightredglow]

I'm not particularly biased on this Morita/Hagu vs Takemoto/Hagu thing and that is probably because I don't find Hagu particularly compelling as a character. She's cute and talented, but I still find it a mystery that she's the center of a triangle. If I have any preference, I'd like it if Takemoto moved on, but the way this story is constructed, his feelings for Hagu have to be resolved first before that happens.

I don't have access to the manga so my only reference is the anime and it seems like that could happen for Takemoto. Even with respect to the last scene of the first season, it doesn't seem to me that Hagu's vague response to Takemoto was a bad thing to him or even the point of the moment.

The import of Takemoto's confession was that he was brave enough to express his feelings irregardless of the outcome. If Hagu cares for him, then great. If she doesn't, then not so great but at least he tried.

A lot is concentrated on the triangle, but I find Takemoto and Morita's friendship far more interesting. Yes, they both are in love with Hagu, but their friendship seems just as important, especially from Morita's standpoint. Takemoto is fine when Morita is gone but Takemoto's absence appears to affect Morita more.

What was somewhat interesting to me was that Hagu was unable to create while Takemoto was away. Even Morita notes this. Up until that point, I didn't think Hagu actually cared about Takemoto except as someone to make her doll's furniture and hang out with now and again. But her artist block coinciding with Takemoto's disappearance inferred that she cared more than she wants to acknowledge. She knows that she has feelings for Morita so that is not all that hidden, but how does she feel about Takemoto? I don't think that even she knows. But it remains that Hagu coped with Morita's absence but she didn't seem to fare as well when Takemoto (or Shuuji, for that matter) was away. From the time she's been at the school, she's had Takemoto's attention and devotion. She's never had to question it and although she may well be in love with Morita and end up going to him, the intrigue in that decision from my view of her part in this triangle is to see how she deals if the aftereffect is Takemoto going on his own and actually finding someone else.

[Cal-Reflector]

Originally Posted by tritoch

I predict that a new girl will be introduced to us which will pair up with Takemoto.

I'm acquainted with the manga so I won't speak on the matter, but while we're on season 2 speculation, what I want to see is Kaoru getting a piece of the action... with Miwako, Mayama's former senior at Fujiwara Design, that lovely lady with the heart of a forty year old inside a sub-30 year old body.

KaoruxMiwako (or Kaoru vs. Miwako)... *chuckle*

[Burner of Anime]

Originally Posted by Cal-Reflector

I'm acquainted with the manga so I won't speak on the matter, but while we're on season 2 speculation, what I want to see is Kaoru getting a piece of the action... with Miwako, Mayama's former senior at Fujiwara Design, that lovely lady with the heart of a forty year old inside a sub-30 year old body.

KaoruxMiwako (or Kaoru vs. Miwako)... *chuckle*

*hint* someone needs to sub the F chapter OVA about this one.

[tritoch]

Wee.. i didnt get flamed! hahaha especially since I registered to post that long thing.

Where is the 2nd special episode? Any news of anyone subbing it?

Also to that person that said about Hagu not producing due to Takemoto's abscence, I have to disagree. She was already struggling before Takemoto left.

I can see the parallel effect of this to Ayu x Mayama -- The interesting part about all this is Morita (which I predict will get a huge chunk of characterization in the manga) The relationship between Morita/Takemoto will be the emphasis if Morita x Hagu does happen as it will conflict with Morita's character)

[Cal-Reflector]

Originally Posted by Burner of Anime

*hint* someone needs to sub the F chapter OVA about this one.

If the F Chapter OVA is about Miwako dressing up Yamazaki, I already read that in the maga. I can only say... well, sorry Yamazaki. I like you, I just like Morita's brother better.

[cheesie]

*claps* Wonderful posts, you all. Welcome, Tritoch, I don't think anyone would flame your opinion, since the Hachikuro crowd here is pretty much easy-going and relaxed (save for the latest chapter, where some got heart attacks *coughmecough*)

[aliensporebomb]

Originally Posted by Cal-Reflector

I'm acquainted with the manga so I won't speak on the matter, but while we're on season 2 speculation, what I want to see is Kaoru getting a piece of the action... with Miwako, Mayama's former senior at Fujiwara Design, that lovely lady with the heart of a forty year old inside a sub-30 year old body.

KaoruxMiwako (or Kaoru vs. Miwako)... *chuckle*

I know they've hardly said a thing about this in the anime, just little bits
here and there but I also am curious.

Could be very interesting but I'm not sure Kaoru is going to get anywhere.

In a way, it's like he's Mayama to her Rika if you follow me.

[Yotsuba]

yeah, if you're going to make friends with any crowd, it'll be us! i recently got my friend into hachikuro, who claimed she hated it when she first saw it.

but after hearing me fangirl about it all the time, she deicded to watch it with me again, and is now in love with it. I WIN!
ahaha, but she likes takemoto x hagu, i think. not that i really care, but... aah..

i hope they don't stray from the manga. i acutally DO like the manga better.. things just seem more dramatic.

[Cal-Reflector]

Originally Posted by aliensporebomb

I know they've hardly said a thing about this in the anime, just little bits
here and there but I also am curious.

Could be very interesting but I'm not sure Kaoru is going to get anywhere.

In a way, it's like he's Mayama to her Rika if you follow me.

No, sorry... I don't get it. Explanation please?

[Yotsuba]

Originally Posted by tritoch

Wee.. i didnt get flamed! hahaha especially since I registered to post that long thing.

Where is the 2nd special episode? Any news of anyone subbing it?

Also to that person that said about Hagu not producing due to Takemoto's abscence, I have to disagree. She was already struggling before Takemoto left.

I can see the parallel effect of this to Ayu x Mayama -- The interesting part about all this is Morita (which I predict will get a huge chunk of characterization in the manga) The relationship between Morita/Takemoto will be the emphasis if Morita x Hagu does happen as it will conflict with Morita's character)

I disagree, as well. and both of them leaving affected her, but when Morita left it inspired her. I don't know, somehow I like that better. It's like Morita makes her more mature? I'm wondering how she would have progressed if he never kissed her. That seemed to be a pivitol point in her development.

Takemoto is almost too kind to her. They all treat her too delicately, when sometimes I think she needs that extra push. Morita was the only one to ever confront her when her work was falling short, or he noticed she wasn't being herself. I think if it was just Hagu and Takemoto, she wouldn't change at all, because he's happy with her childish nature. It's like the young boy in him is attracted to her. The one who didn't get much of a childhood.