Hayate no Gotoku manga (raw discussion only)

[AstroNerdBoy]

Originally Posted by lucasdeis

thoughts in the ending?

I'll have final thoughts later. While I love wacky, gag comedy, it really irritates me that Hata-sensei wasted so much time doing filler gag chapters instead of working gags in while pushing forward the plot. As such, he didn't have a path where Hayate could be naturally set up to be with Nagi at the end (instead of what we have now, which is "Well, he cared about Nagi, so clearly that's romantic love and F anyone who disagrees with me.") And then there are plot threads and stuff that never got addressed, which really ticks me off.

Originally Posted by aldw

And all those points was more authorial fiat rather than properly integrated story, since it was a gag manga first and foremost than a plot driven story that Negima at least attempted to be despite the fanservice.

I totally agree. In the spinoff-sequel UQ Holder, the MC there loves a certain character. However, a proper path has been established for the MC to end up with one or more of the other girls in his harem. If Hata-sensei had done something similar for Hayate x Nagi (as he did with the other ships), then I'd have zero problem with Hayate ending up with Nagi even though I shipped Athena.

Oh well. Break time is over. Back to the work grind. Hopefully, I'll get some chapter reviews up and then a series review, where hopefully, enough time will have passed for me to have a clear head on the matter.

[3000forever]

Originally Posted by AstroNerdBoy

I'll have final thoughts later. While I love wacky, gag comedy, it really irritates me that Hata-sensei wasted so much time doing filler gag chapters instead of working gags in while pushing forward the plot. As such, he didn't have a path where Hayate could be naturally set up to be with Nagi at the end (instead of what we have now, which is "Well, he cared about Nagi, so clearly that's romantic love and F anyone who disagrees with me.") And then there are plot threads and stuff that never got addressed, which really ticks me off.

Just going to note that the portion in bold is personal opinion and should be taken as such. Hata wasting a lot of time with gag chapters is a fact.

I'm not sure if I can share mediafire links here, so you'll find my translated version of the final chapter (ch. 568) in the comments section of my blog for those interested who can't read Japanese. Wait for DKThias' version if you want professional quality and accuracy: http://www.jaded-perspectives.com/20...nultimate.html

[aldw]

Originally Posted by 3000forever

No need to defend Hata on this point IMO. People will see it the way they want. Gag manga? Romantic comedy? Plot driven story? These are just labels. At the end of the day, the story is what it is -- what you decide it to be is your personal opinion.

In my case, I loved it -- especially the ending. I don't care to put a label on what it was/shoehorn it into a particular genre. It's a story that I like with a fictional girl that I fell in love with, is all.

The specific pairing I was never too concerned with to begin with (since many of the characters are fine in their own way), rather if the Nagi/Hayate relationship had the same level of development focus that the "End of the World" arc had presented, there wouldn't really be an argument about the validity of the relationship's development whatsoever. If anything, it does show how much more Hata could have executed in story quality that what we actually received, and that's the real core of disappointment. The pairings are more window dressing on that point.

[3000forever]

Originally Posted by aldw

The specific pairing I was never too concerned with to begin with (since many of the characters are fine in their own way), rather if the Nagi/Hayate relationship had the same level of development focus that the "End of the World" arc had presented, there wouldn't really be an argument about the validity of the relationship's development whatsoever. If anything, it does show how much more Hata could have executed in story quality that what we actually received, and that's the real core of disappointment. The pairings are more window dressing on that point.

Respectfully, this is where we must agree to disagree. IMO, it's a matter of explicit development in the End of the World arc compared to implicit over-all development leading to the logical conclusion of this finale. I won't try to convince you on this, but rather, I'll state that this is my opinion on how the storytelling was handled and for me, it is valid even if it may not be for others.

In addition, I've always viewed the story as between just the two of them (Nagi and Hayate), with everything else along the way put in as obstacles towards reaching the end of their story. This is why even with several things left unsaid and many a story thread left untouched, the story still works for me.

[dragon1412]

Originally Posted by 3000forever

Respectfully, this is where we must agree to disagree. IMO, it's a matter of explicit development in the End of the World arc compared to implicit over-all development leading to the logical conclusion of this finale. I won't try to convince you on this, but rather, I'll state that this is my opinion on how the storytelling was handled and for me, it is valid even if it may not be for others.

In addition, I've always viewed the story as between just the two of them (Nagi and Hayate), with everything else along the way put in as obstacles towards reaching the end of their story. This is why even with several things left unsaid and many a story thread left untouched, the story still works for me.

it's pretty much depend on your view it is. To me, the story was always about Nagi's development, so I think focus on her is natural, but I don't really consider Nagi's development as romantic development. And personally I think Hata's writing was having problem as well. Especially starting from the end of Ruka's arc, there are also the matter of Hata playing around too much when we are near the ending as well.

[3000forever]

Originally Posted by dragon1412

it's pretty much depend on your view it is. To me, the story was always about Nagi's development, so I think focus on her is natural, but I don't really consider Nagi's development as romantic development. And personally I think Hata's writing was having problem as well. Especially starting from the end of Ruka's arc, there are also the matter of Hata playing around too much when we are near the ending as well.

Point taken. Hata's execution as far as the entire story goes leaves much to be desired. Of course, as you've said. when it comes to developing the platform for Nagi x Hayate to become a couple, it's all a matter of perspective. I'm glad that we can agree on this.

[lucasdeis]

Originally Posted by AstroNerdBoy

I totally agree. In the spinoff-sequel UQ Holder, the MC there loves a certain character. However, a proper path has been established for the MC to end up with one or more of the other girls in his harem. If Hata-sensei had done something similar for Hayate x Nagi (as he did with the other ships), then I'd have zero problem with Hayate ending up with Nagi even though I shipped Athena.

I completely disagree with you even Mellhurts said it "Let's also forget the sparkling clarity hundreds of chapters ago when Athena said she didn't see herself reflected in his eyes anymore, and made it clear it was his new mistress. Or the recent sad, melancholy of Hinagiku giving up as she realized he was filled to the brim with someone else, even after he was freed."

the romantic side of them has been growing A LOT every single time but people just decided to not accept it

also it was stated lots of times even by Hata how this manga works:

from the very beggining:

*mod snip*
"a love story between me and ojou sama"

or just recent:
*mod snip*
Hints where always there. people decided to play blind thats all. (not to mention Hayate and Nagi are Hata favourite characters and also the main protagonist)

Also it was true that it was rushed that prob has something to do with next manga and publisher pushing hata to finish it or any other reason but that doesnt mean its a bad ending. the developement for both character has been in here for 568 chapters already and the romantic side is more like "after 2 years Hayate understood he loves her and they start a fresh new relationship trying this love that they both share" the relationship has just barely started for them. its not like they married but it shows you that they truly love each other and that they are starting something fresh and new with their love. Also hayate has 2 years to analize what he feels. I think thats more than a excuse to say he decided to choose her because he realised he loved and loves her.

[3000forever]

@lucasdeis: Very well said, my friend. It's nice to see that not everyone is taking this ending so negatively.

I've just posted my review of the finale on my blog. It includes some bits about Hata's backstage (his blog) for the final chapter. It really confirms a lot of things.

With that said, my review: http://www.jaded-perspectives.com/20...568-final.html

[Mr.Snappy]

Hey guys can i ask what happen to maria? Nagi's maid...

[3000forever]

Originally Posted by Mr.Snappy

Hey guys can i ask what happen to maria? Nagi's maid...

Hata didn't include her in the final chapter. Based on his blog, it seems that Maria was someone who chose to live an extraordinary life after her farewell chapter. In contrast, Nagi and Hayate chose to return to living ordinary lives. I'm not sure how sound that reasoning is, but that seems to be the gist of what he's saying.

http://websunday.net/backstage/hata/

[dragon1412]

Originally Posted by 3000forever

Hata didn't include her in the final chapter. Based on his blog, it seems that Maria was someone who chose to live an extraordinary life after her farewell chapter. In contrast, Nagi and Hayate chose to return to living ordinary lives. I'm not sure how sound that reasoning is, but that seems to be the gist of what he's saying.

http://websunday.net/backstage/hata/

Interesting, it seem that Hina is scene was actually changed because of Shizuka's live. And to be blunt, I'm not buying things about Nishizawa and Maria, this is just Hata's justification about the lack of closure, pretty sure that when the decision to end come out he no longer have enough chapters to pull a perfect end.

[3000forever]

Originally Posted by dragon1412

Interesting, it seem that Hina is scene was actually changed because of Shizuka's live. And to be blunt, I'm not buying things about Nishizawa and Maria, this is just Hata's justification about the lack of closure, pretty sure that when the decision to end come out he no longer have enough chapters to pull a perfect end.

For Maria, it may not have been intentional. We can only speculate, of course. For Ayumu, he did tweet prior to chapter 565 and made it clear in his blog that this would be the last time he would be drawing that character for Sunday.

[Ritzu07]

well its look like the translated chapter will take time so i decide to see the raw


I really dont mind this cliche ending if we have gotten a proper resolution in at least with main cast like Hina and Maria, only Hayate Ayumu and Nagi got that and its really unfair especially for Maria since she is in the series since chapter 1 also there still a lot of mystery behind her character that i think he can use for another arc.

but anyway thanks for giving us a wonderful series Hata-sensei wish you all the best

[Utkarsh Ray]

In my opinion, of all other girls, Ruka had the best closure followed by Ayumu.

Would really love to see some short(?) bangaihens featuring all other characters, at least once.

Congratulations to Violent Cloud - san ;-)
(I like what you did with the blog header) (0_<)b

[3000forever]

Originally Posted by Utkarsh Ray

In my opinion, of all other girls, Ruka had the best closure followed by Ayumu.

Would really love to see some short(?) bangaihens featuring all other characters, at least once.

Congratulations to Violent Cloud - san ;-)
(I like what you did with the blog header) (0_<)b

Thank you~!
My emotional investment into this series goes a lot deeper than just seeing it as another story to be read. It's no exaggeration for me to say that I'd be a more broken individual than I ever was had things not ended this way.

There may be some additional material in Vol. 52, by the way. Hata made it pretty definite in his blog that this is the true ending, but that doesn't prevent him from writing additional expansion material for the manga volume release.

[Utkarsh Ray]

The story was emotionally very involving.
I watched last 3-4 episodes of CTMEOY (dub ^_^; ) on TV during summer vacation and got interested.
I followed up and obtained the series with Japanese audio and loved it.

It is the first anime I watched "knowing it as anime" and it is the first manga I read.

Even after watching/reading a lot of anime/manga/LN/VN, I still find it among the best. Only "Gintama" is another long running series I love as much as I love "Hayate no Gotoku!" (even though Hayate doesn't end up with Athena.)

Looking forward to Hata-sensei's next work (probably Ad Astra will continue)

[3000forever]

Just sharing. I started working on this as soon as I saw the first spoiler images http://i68.tinypic.com/2zpnsw8.jpg

[AP24]

You know it's ridiculous that another series was on the cover of the magazine issue that featured Hayate's final chapter.

[Utkarsh Ray]

Didn't know that.

They didn't let it end at a nice round number of chapters. But not even cover page for final chapter!

Which series was on the cover, though?

[3000forever]

Originally Posted by Utkarsh Ray

Didn't know that.

They didn't let it end at a nice round number of chapters. But not even cover page for final chapter!

Which series was on the cover, though?

Conan, I think.