To Aru Kagaku no Railgun S - Episode 21 Discussion / Poll

[Ashaman]

Can I just remind people to keep a lid on alleged character inconsistencies based on how certain characters behave in future arcs? Because I can guarantee you that anime only viewers won't care to know...

I know this wasn't directed solely at me, but I was referring to the Index anime. And like I said, Railgun is a side story - to ignore one whole half of the series is practically missing the point of the series.

Originally Posted by dniv

So while the earlier villains in this arc (I agree) did look at least a little lame, we still don't know that much about them. And we should take everything into perspective. They aren't that lame. Last time in season 1, Terestina became a much better villain IMO as the arc went along. So I think the same may happen here.

That is entirely possible. I'm judging the villains on what we have seen of them so far.

So in the early part of this season, Mikoto turned away from her friends. She needs to rely on her friends now... While, the transition to having her friends help her seemed at *slightly* unnatural, it's at least nice to see her character develop a little bit.

The thing is though, Misaka doesn't need their help.

In this episode alone, there is nothing that they did that Misaka as an individual couldn't have done.

She hasn't involved them because she needs them; she involved them because Kongou accidentally guilt tripped her into it.

[monir]

Originally Posted by Ashaman

She hasn't involved them because she needs them; she involved them because Kongou accidentally guilt tripped her into it.

Just to comment on the above......, the reason she involved them isn't out of guilt. It was her self recognition to the fact that relying on people less capable than her is actually a sign of maturity. She doesn't need to carry the burden all by herself when others equally show concern and care for Febri. On top of it, they care for Misaka too! So relying on people isn't a bad thing at all even if they are less capable than you. In life one thing everyone learns intuitively is that a problem never has just one solution. There is multitude of solution available, so if you've more than one people helping you out to tackle a problem, you will be able to come up with several different solution and pick the one that is best suited to achieve the goal with minimum amount of effort required.

Ultimately that was the lesson learned by Misaka in the previous arc which she is applying now.

[eavein18]

Originally Posted by monir

So relying on people isn't a bad thing at all even if they are less capable than you.

... until they got hurt ... that is ...

edit : add
Then Misaka would snap and go berserk ^^;

[Haak]

Originally Posted by Ashaman

I know this wasn't directed solely at me, but I was referring to the Index anime. And like I said, Railgun is a side story - to ignore one whole half of the series is practically missing the point of the series.

Regardless, Index anime spoilers aren't allowed either. In any case all I'll say is that I disagree: there's nothing in the Index anime that contradicts Misaka's actions here.

The thing is though, Misaka doesn't need their help.

In this episode alone, there is nothing that they did that Misaka as an individual couldn't have done.

She hasn't involved them because she needs them; she involved them because Kongou accidentally guilt tripped her into it.

I highly doubt Misaka would've been able to do the amount of work that they did in this episode alone, not to mention that Misaka wouldn't have obtained that capsule from Yomikawa had Kuroko not been there as a Judgement. Misaka probably wouldn't have even thought to ask AntiSkill.

[Triple_R]

I really don't get the argument that Mikoto shouldn't have told her friends about the full situation because it could "get them hurt".

Good grief, people, Kuroko is a high-level Esper herself. She can take care of herself. Heck, back in the Level Upper arc, she managed to single-handedly defeat many dangerous Espers, as well as one hulking brute that had her caught in a very nasty pinch for a bit.

Also, Kuroko and Uiharu are both in Judgement. That job is very comparable to being a police officer in real life. These people are use to getting involved in dangerous and risky situations. Sure, they're not as aware of the darker sides of Academy City as Mikoto now is, but they probably should be made aware of it given what they do.

[AdmirerofSatenRuiko]

Rising tension, approaching climax, everything is in motion now.
It was great to see Misaka -partly with Kongou's involvement- deciding to let her friends know Febri's situation, and everyone instantly taking action without hesitation. This is that genuine Railgun feeling I love so much.
Getting some background info on the company of Kongou's family was really interesting, and her mobile phone also with the company logo
The doctor proved again his incredibly big influence in various areas by arranging the meeting for Misaka. I did not expect Telestina to be a key person, one would think logically that it'll take some time get info out of her, but who knows...
Next episode will also bring some fanservice:3 Though I'd prefer seeing Saten in swimsuit...

[ReddyRedWolf]

The difference between this arc and the Sisters arc is that in the Sisters arc she knew she was up against Academy City itself. Getting her friends involved is a bad idea as she was committing what amounts to acts of terrorism.

The girls have already seen the bad side of the city with Harumi's victimized child errors and Telestina using them regardless of what happens.

With that they can still stay in the light fighting a clear cut evil without dirtying themselves.

Mikoto only knows whoever created Febli has Nunotuba Shinobu involved and they are targeting as well. While Mikoto knows somebody higher up the food chain is involved with Anti-Skill ordered to back-off it doesn't mean she'll have to make the City her enemy this time as the enemy in not yet quantified.

[leukrota]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Also, Kuroko and Uiharu are both in Judgement. That job is very comparable to being a police officer in real life. These people are use to getting involved in dangerous and risky situations.

Judgement members are not like police officers. They are underage students that can't carry weapons and are not supposed to engage dangerous criminals. Anti-Skill is for that, Judgement is more like a citizen patrol/community voluntaries commitee. The problem is that Kuroko keeps going over her duties, which is why she has to write apologies all the time.

[dniv]

Originally Posted by leukrota

Judgement members are not like police officers. They are underage students that can't carry weapons and are not supposed to engage dangerous criminals. Anti-Skill is for that, Judgement is more like a citizen patrol/community voluntaries commitee. The problem is that Kuroko keeps going over her duties, which is why she has to write apologies all the time.

I have to say: that kind of does make Kuroko badass in her own way hmmm... she just rose somewhat on my list of favorite raildex characters

[rladls716]

Some people underestimate Kuroko and Kazari too much, especially Kazari and Ruiko based on previous arcs.

Mikoto is just ahead of the three of them or about the same as of now.

[leukrota]

Originally Posted by rladls716

Mikoto is just ahead of the three of them or about the same as of now.

Just what are you talking about?

[SilverTalon]

Originally Posted by rladls716

Some people underestimate Kuroko and Kazari too much, especially Kazari and Ruiko based on previous arcs.

Mikoto is just ahead of the three of them or about the same as of now.

I'll give you Kuroko and even Saten since she did help out by being immune to capacity down, but what did Uiharu do that no one else could have done? Her thing is hacking / searching electronically, but we know from the sister's arc that Mikoto can use her powers to hack into and search databases so at best she saves Mikoto some time. Also that was for a whole 1 arc. Level Upper I'm pretty sure she contributed nothing (she did realize who was responsible, but so did everyone else before Uiharu had a chance to tell them) and no one did anything useful in the sister's arc but Mikoto. So Uiharu in 1 of 3 arcs did something and it was something some one else could have done.

[dniv]

Originally Posted by SilverTalon

I'll give you Kuroko and even Saten since she did help out by being immune to capacity down, but what did Uiharu do that no one else could have done? Her thing is hacking / searching electronically, but we know from the sister's arc that Mikoto can use her powers to hack into and search databases so at best she saves Mikoto some time. Also that was for a whole 1 arc. Level Upper I'm pretty sure she contributed nothing (she did realize who was responsible, but so did everyone else before Uiharu had a chance to tell them) and no one did anything useful in the sister's arc but Mikoto. So Uiharu in 1 of 3 arcs did something and it was something some one else could have done.

But Uiharu can do it without using any powers so if something like capacity down went over the city while it was necessary (hypothetical situation) then Uiharu would be able to do something necessary Mikoto could not.

Also, Uiharu is just a genius hacker from what we have seen a few times that could presumably get much better (she's young) and she was referred to as the goalkeeper (the subs said this) earlier this arc or last arc. Just being there to hack lets Mikoto do something else and not waste her time/energy to try to hack. I'm not even sure if Uiharu couldn't hack AC's secrets better than Mikoto except that she has had no reason to do so up until now.

[Haigon]

Originally Posted by dniv

But Uiharu can do it without using any powers so if something like capacity down went over the city while it was necessary (hypothetical situation) then Uiharu would be able to do something necessary Mikoto could not.

From the Fantastic Four only Saten is immune to the capacity down.

[dniv]

Originally Posted by Haigon

From the Fantastic Four only Saten is immune to the capacity down.

I know, but she can still hack without her powers.

Ok maybe not something like capacity down, but something that just negates the use of powers. That might be easier to have on a large scale than something like capacity down.

Otherwise Uiharu might improve her power as well in the future.

The real point is: Adding one more person to your group who is dedicated and tech-savvy will not hurt you unless they are taken hostage and you are too weak to save them. Otherwise, it's a good thing.

[Anh_Minh]

The question isn't so much "what can they contribute", but "can they survive an encounter with one of the more gifted or well equipped murderous maniacs from the dark side of Academy City?". And the answer is yes, because they're main characters.

But without that meta-reason? Not so much. Mikoto stands a chance because of her overwhelming power, but even then she could be in serious trouble because of her naivety. Plus people know her and could take steps specifically against her.

Kuroko? Well, she's strong, but there are plenty at least as strong as her, and she's just as naive as Mikoto. The rest aren't even worth mentioning.

[dniv]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

The question isn't so much "what can they contribute", but "can they survive an encounter with one of the more gifted or well equipped murderous maniacs from the dark side of Academy City?". And the answer is yes, because they're main characters.

But without that meta-reason? Not so much. Mikoto stands a chance because of her overwhelming power, but even then she could be in serious trouble because of her naivety. Plus people know her and could take steps specifically against her.

Kuroko? Well, she's strong, but there are plenty at least as strong as her, and she's just as naive as Mikoto. The rest aren't even worth mentioning.

In terms of Saten and Uiharu, there's another reason they could survive. Their opponents would laugh themselves unconscious at their inability to win and then they would beat up their enemies? + Uiharu could hack suits that worked on electricity I bet... I wonder if the mecha terestina made is related to the mechas using the feathers. Electricity didn't work on Terestina's mecha either after all.

[Anh_Minh]

Yeah, well, good luck hacking a gun.

For that matter, Uiharu's not an electromaster. To hack anything, she needs a terminal connected to it. So if the suit isn't connected to the net, she's out of luck.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

The question isn't so much "what can they contribute", but "can they survive an encounter with one of the more gifted or well equipped murderous maniacs from the dark side of Academy City?". And the answer is yes, because they're main characters.

But without that meta-reason? Not so much. Mikoto stands a chance because of her overwhelming power, but even then she could be in serious trouble because of her naivety. Plus people know her and could take steps specifically against her.

Kuroko? Well, she's strong, but there are plenty at least as strong as her, and she's just as naive as Mikoto. The rest aren't even worth mentioning.

Obviously Uiharu and Saten shouldn't be going into heavy duty combat situations. That doesn't mean they can't even be told what's really going on with Febri. They're reasonably intelligent people that can contribute through research and brainstorming. Besides, they arguably have a right to know as they've taken Febri under their wing and have emotional investment at this point.

Now, with the Sisters Arc, Mikoto was doing things that would actually put her in opposition against Kuroko if Kuroko knew what was going on. So it's understandable for Mikoto to not involve her friends there.

But there's no real reason to keep her friends in the dark now. They can make positive contributions without having to go up against the Accelerators and the Meltdowners of the world.

Finally, Kuroko is a freaking teleporter of all things. That means a free retreat in almost any situation. Given the potential offensive uses of Kuroko's powers, there are many situations where Mikoto is better off having Kuroko fighting by her side than Mikoto is fighting alone.

Now, even after all that, is there still some tiny bit of risk involved? Yes, but there's risk involved in crossing the road. There are unhealthy extremes that one can go to in trying to minimize risks. Mikoto should not be trying to go it alone whenever she faces the dark underbelly of Academy City. There are times when she's going to need help, and this is one of them, imo.

[dniv]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Obviously Uiharu and Saten shouldn't be going into heavy duty combat situations. That doesn't mean they can't even be told what's really going on with Febri. They're reasonably intelligent people that can contribute through research and brainstorming. Besides, they arguably have a right to know as they've taken Febri under their wing and have emotional involvement at this point.

Now, with the Sisters Arc, Mikoto was doing things that would actually put her in opposition against Kuroko if Kuroko knew what was going on. So it's understandable for Mikoto to not involve her friends there.

But there's no real reason to keep her friends in the dark now. They can make positive contributions without having to go up against the Accelerators and the Meltdowners of the world.

Finally, Kuroko is a freaking teleporter of all things. That means a free retreat in almost any situation.

Now, even after all that, is there still some tiny, smidgen bit of risk involved? Yes, but there's risk involved in crossing the road. There are unhealthy extremes that one can go to in trying to minimize risks. Mikoto should not be trying to go it alone whenever she faces the dark underbelly of Academy City. There are times when she's going to need help, and this is one of them, imo.

Exactly AC has stronger things than the #3 level 5 as we have already seen.

If Mugino is working in ITEM against her will and she's the #4 and presumably not much weaker than Mikoto and from the fact that most of ITEM doesn't seem to want to be in ITEM, and if Mugino can't break free alone (I'm extrapolating from their conversation with Takitsubou during the sisters arc), then I'm guessing there are things out there perhaps different from Accel stronger than Mikoto.

All Mugino portrayed the darkness as being huge. She wants Mikoto to fall into it. Clearly, if Mikoto just goes alone what happened before will happen again. This is why she's trying to rely on her friends. This isn't just because of what Kongou told her, but what she said reminded Mikoto about what Kamijou told her, that other people care about her. In fact, it was Kuroko's worry for Mikoto that made Mikoto tell Kuroko what the truth was (they included that flashback). This is probably why they emphasized in episode 14 with the bridge scene the fact that Kuroko really wanted to help Mikoto and Touma's reaction to it so we know what is going on. This was compounded when her friends were out doing their thing while Mikoto was away.

Mikoto's decision to include her friends might have been a little convenient, but in the end it's just a plot device to remind her about what Touma tried to convey to her and the clones (that her life is important and that her friends care about her).

It's exactly why on the bridge Touma first worried about Mikoto before blaming her, because they are friends. That's a large part of the reason it was so emotional for her. So I'm guessing something very similar is going on here and Mikoto is taking that lesson to heart. The fact that this happened now isn't really out of place at all, it was just slightly contrived with the Kongou part (which still wasn't really that contrived).