Ciconia no Naku Koro ni (When they Cry 5)

[Klashikari]

Ryukishi07 has released a teaser PV for the fifth installment of the naku koro ni series, Ciconia no Naku Koro ni (When the Ciconia Cry).

YouTube

https://youtu.be/kiNSqXGgLTc

Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

As you can see, this is drastically different compared to Higurashi and Umineko. Also, his promise that it will be more "international" wasn't for show.


Once again, Witch Hunt will take care of the translation.

[Von Himmel]

Are you going to release the translation at the same time as the game comes out or will it still be like the usual where you will translate it after the game is released?

[GreyZone]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

[...]
Also, his promise that it will be more "international" wasn't for show.


Once again, Witch Hunt will take care of the translation.

I mean you yourself and witch hunt appear in the credits (at 1:09), so I think that alone gives emphasis on the "international" part, if the whole recent kickstarter collaboration for Umineko didn't already make that obvious.


In case it doesn't violate any possible NDAs that might exist, can you tell us anything about the rumored EP9 of Umineko? Just asking for the feint possibility there is.

Also, and I don't think it's just me thinking this, but ever since the Umineko sub-forum got "retired" it's hard to get any discussion going over there, even harder than if it got it's own seperate thread on this VN sub-forum instead.

[Klashikari]

Originally Posted by Von Himmel

Are you going to release the translation at the same time as the game comes out or will it still be like the usual where you will translate it after the game is released?

We weren't given any other material aside of the text used for the PV. Time will tell, but right now, Ryukishi07 is focusing on writing both Ciconia and Umineko Saku.

Originally Posted by GreyZone

In case it doesn't violate any possible NDAs that might exist, can you tell us anything about the rumored EP9 of Umineko? Just asking for the feint possibility there is.

Also, and I don't think it's just me thinking this, but ever since the Umineko sub-forum got "retired" it's hard to get any discussion going over there, even harder than if it got it's own seperate thread on this VN sub-forum instead.

Ryukishi07 didn't tell us any detail regarding the new content for Saku, so I wouldn't be able to confirm those rumors. At the very least, we can expect some medium sized episode, but that's my opinion on that matter.

Regarding the forum matter, the thing is that subforums are intended for material with an anime who fills AS criteria. Ciconia is not released yet and probably won't have an anime adaptation (considering what happened to chiru, higanbana, RGD and TRianThology). And it would be a bit weird to put back umineko subforum just because of Ciconia which won't really share the plot or even the themes.

[GreyZone]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

Regarding the forum matter, the thing is that subforums are intended for material with an anime who fills AS criteria. Ciconia is not released yet and probably won't have an anime adaptation (considering what happened to chiru, higanbana, RGD and TRianThology). And it would be a bit weird to put back umineko subforum just because of Ciconia which won't really share the plot or even the themes.

No, I wasn't refering to moving this thread here into the Umineko threads. It's obviously a new entry in the WHEN THEY CRY series and at least as "seperate" from Umineko as Higurashi is, most likely. Neither was I suggesting to return the Umineko sub-forum back from retirement. Instead, I was refering to whether or not a Umineko VN discussion thread could be created on this sub-forum, because people are extremely unlikely to see any posts on a retired anime sub-forum which pretty much no one visited for the anime itself ever since it finished airing, but has instead been taken over by VN discussions for a few years (I would know, since I was an active participent) until the discussions declined and then the Umineko anime sub-forum was finally retired. With its current retired status the sub-forum trashes any potential traffic over there, since you can only find it if you are actiely searching for it, or if it's the "newest post" in the entire "Older Series" sub-forum section.

I know this would be out of the norm, but considering that WHEN THEY CRY 4+ is an entirely new release, perhaps it might warrant a seperate thread on this general VN sub-forum instead? I mean we already had the precedent of splitting an entire source material sub-forum from the anime sub-forum with the Raildex franchise (on top of already splitting Railgun from Index), so doing the same, but instead just creating a single thread (or maybe another one for general Umineko discussions) for a sub-forum that has already been retired anyway, shouldn't be too much of a bother, I think.

[MeoTwister5]

I was still in medical school when Umineko came out. Whatever controversy the ending eventuall caused I'm very much on board with the new work by R07.

That said... are the usual suspects in this? I suspect Bernkastel has a few more lives she wants to ruin.

[Von Himmel]

Speaking of Bern, how does Lambda fair in her latest game with Bern in Hotarubi. Last time I read the manga ending, she died right at the end before she managed to come out of hell I wonder if there's continuation of it or not since the manga didn't show Bern and Lambda part unlike the prologue novel..

[serenade_beta]

I'm surprised Ryukishi is still alive
I'm more surprised that they are still using thatugly character illustrator. I thought the Higurashi remakes found some other guy to do them...

[Klashikari]

Well, that's normal because Ryukishi is the illustrator for all the games he has produced, with RGD as some kind of exception since it involved several illustrators, mostly thanks to his connections with Square Enix.
07th Expansion is still a doujin circle, so unless they are backed up by someone like SE, hiring an actual professional illustrator isn't exactly doable.

[serenade_beta]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

Well, that's normal because Ryukishi is the illustrator for all the games he has produced, with RGD as some kind of exception since it involved several illustrators, mostly thanks to his connections with Square Enix.
07th Expansion is still a doujin circle, so unless they are backed up by someone like SE, hiring an actual professional illustrator isn't exactly doable.

Hmm, I don't know about that. I mean, perhaps not a professional illustrator, but there are plenty of artists out there that he could hire to draw the characters.
...If he wanted to spend that money.
It's R-18-related, so it isn't exactly the same (but close enough), but for instance, Crooked Navel's person doesn't exactly draw the best characters. But for his current series, he got someone else (Masami Aoi, who does doujins) to do the illustrations. And other people to do other stuff.

I personally think he should dish out the cash to get more attractive artwork, so that he can attract new customers and not just the remaining fans of his myster...y...(?) magical stories.

[Von Himmel]

He did that in RGD already, which was great but then people (at least in my known circle) prefers Ryukishi to use his original art instead I think it has its own charm that makes people like it I guess...

[Klashikari]

I personally think Ryukishi's sprites have their charm because facial expression are very fitting, especially in Umineko.
Rose Guns Days worked pretty well though and you can tell the Mangakas who helped him followed his instructions to a T, especially Souichirou's Rose.

But RGD is most likely an exception because the cast was fairly smaller, Square Enix planned a manga right from the get go and it involve some themes that needed more eyecandy stuff.
Ciconia cast is at the very least composed of 24 characters and it involve sci fi stuff. I don't think finding a single illustrator filling the bill AND working for cheap while following strict instructions would be easy to find.

[DragonXX]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

Ryukishi07 has released a teaser PV for the fifth installment of the naku koro ni series, Ciconia no Naku Koro ni (When the Ciconia Cry).

YouTube

https://youtu.be/kiNSqXGgLTc

Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

As you can see, this is drastically different compared to Higurashi and Umineko. Also, his promise that it will be more "international" wasn't for show.


Once again, Witch Hunt will take care of the translation.

I am guessing that each episode in this game will follow a different team

[Klashikari]

Official opening has been uploaded.

Some people already noticed the similar text for Warcat and Grave Mole. That was an oversight. It will be fixed for the game release.

Speaking of which, since it wasn't mentioned here: the release was delayed because of issues regarding the content volume but also the new engine system for Ciconia. Since that system is also used for Umineko Saku, the latter is delayed as well.
The master up is scheduled for end September, so the game won't be released before end september/october.

[serenade_beta]

I think the artist has gotten... slightly better since... 6 years ago?
Well, I guess that isn't his main job, so maybe that is the limit of his ability to improve.

[MeoTwister5]

Just saw the game on Steam as released...

[Von Himmel]

5 mins in and it's already pretty much child abuse scene lol
Classic ryukishi

[beruga]

Ciconia Theories:

Spoiler for Ciconia Phase 1 Spoilers:

The story has two sides: human side (led by three kings) and gods side (led by featherinne)

When human civilization reaches a certain point, featherinne enacts world end scenario: disasters followed by the survivors taken to VR heaven.
Three kings goal is to delay that ending by restarting civilization. (Using Gods plan to their own ends)
Toujiro is using three kings plan to kill featherinne using miyao
Toujiro helps the three kings accelerate the worlds end in order to force featherine to make a move and create an opening,
somehow leading to a confrontation with miyao the "murder machine" who was programmed to kill her

This is forshadowed in a chapter quote about sticking the king in your opponent players eyes, ie: don't beat them according to
game rules, simply kill them. When miyao is promoted to "king" that leads to a meeting with featherinne where he kills her

Alternate method: Three kings know nothing about toujiro's plans, they are simply cynical narcississts who want to judge the world
They were given power by featherinne, toujiro wants miyao to be the "king" of the new world
When three kings meet him to make him their successor, his murder program kills them, or:
he takes over and when featherinne gives him an audience as her pawn he kills her
In other words, toujirou presents featherinne with a king miyao only for her to be killed by a piece on her side of the chessboard

Toujiro compared three kings human made disasters to rain ritual to bring about 8MS "natural" disasters.
He also compared all of ciconia phase-1 to only the opening moves of a chess match.
ciconia phase-1 is the only the first half of the "game", where it ends is where the battle really starts between human side and featherinne side

Miyao was programmed by toujiro to kill featherine to prevent spinal VR heaven ending, this plan seems to require accelerating the worlds end by killing off most of humanity.

Blue miyao used this fact to blame miyao for the world's deaths as he is the crux of toujiro's plan, all to mentally damage miyao and make him erase himself.

I think blue miyao is a version of miyao who accepted the spinal/VR heaven from another timeline, he was sent by featherine to wage mental warfare on miyao to replace him
and ensure the VR spinal heaven ending.

Meow already knows about toujiro's plans because she tells miyao to wait until he will know what his role as a piece is.
This is also forshadowed by her talks with jayden about the value of communication in the flesh and how electronic communication is lacking.
Also forshadowed in their talk about how the world will become a better place if only miyao became bright and happy.
Meow didn't give jayden a clear answer on their date Because meow knew miyao is still unawakened, she wanted to tell him when the truth is revealed

lingji's grand dad is one of the three kings (she said he looked haggard because of work, but he was haggard because he is a double)
King of africa too
(rethabile wonders how her brother got involved with the three kings given his meek personality, it was through his dads royal family)
King of Ridicule has a "ihihihi" laugh that toujiro does in a scene with seshat, so I suspect toujiro as well lol.
The three kings reference the three wise men who each came from a different culture/region

The game has narrator sections that purport to reflect miyao's inner thoughts but they are actually the thoughts of others
Narrator sections espouse three different ideologies, below are the people who might hold them:
1-Mind over matter -> lingji (what she says in gender discussion)
2-Disaster utopia is good -> Koshka
3-Naturalism -> gunhild (babies discussion and the unwanted siloed off to death discussion) & chloe (selcom data fragment, humans musn't rely too much on tech)

Koshka's brain is the pandora, disasters and hope are stored in it, when koshka wants disasters to happen, they happen through science lab
Her mind helped mario finish the earthquake machine
Towards the final confrontation, koshka thinks those eager for war should do it themselves, that causes zombie 8MS
When koshka says she wants to destroy the world, she is not on the three kings side, she is on featherinne's side
Koshka takes featherinne's side, kills miyao (who is against VR heaven) so she can have a happy life in VR heaven, or:
the "filthy carpet" and ones she kills at the end of the game are the three kings

Jayden is from VR heaven, his memories were deleted and sent into looping world to ease miyao in.

After lingji's breakdown following her grandad's death, she was contacted by the 9th prime similar to miyao in the end, that's where her golden gauntlet came from

The high secret lab that manages 8MS has become the crazy science lab, as 8MS breaks down desperate humanity's hope is an insane place
The space in the lab is not "real", it is an image constructed by the human mind to comprehend and communicate with unknow powers
The power or mechanism in it transcends human understanding, hence Viers talk of translation
As such, "something" that can cause a world wide earthquake is "imagined" as a big mad scientist invention that shakes earth
Similar to how the mind tries to make sense of random neural activity when sleeping which results in dreams
The crazy science lab itself is a VR space

Lilya & Koshka's memories were altered to give them fake backgrounds

Someone was sleeping in the abyss hatch and they were woken up by seshat

Questions:
Three kings say within a few years after WW3 humanity made a mistake that can't be undone, putting them on the "wrong path"
The same mistake was made before which necessitated WW3
The mistake can't be fixed, civilization must be rewinded to a point before the mistake and put on the right path.
What is the mistake? some sort of technological innovation? Reliance on 8MS?

Before the battle standard festival, three kings hold a vote on ending the world in which one of them votes "no"
Second time they all vote "yes"
What changed between 1st & 2nd votes? That could be a hint to the identity of one of them