Santairiku Eiyuuki <The Heroic Chronicle of 3 Continents>

[wuhugm]

^I like Luna's policy of protecting the country as a whole

It's not like dumb characters in other novels that won't let even a single citizen to die

If it's to save 10000, Luna will gladly sacrifice 1 citizen

So realistic~

[Rasty]

^ But she can never become loved ruler (even if ignoring the small problem of being a girl). The loved rulers are ones that are ready to sacrifice 10k to save 1 (Erquil way of doing thing). The other way around comes out as cold and cruel, even though it is much more for the good of all the people.

[Rinvelt]

Finished the first volume, and my opinion doesn't really change: nice MC and good character interactions.

I think I'm going to leave it on the side for now. I hope it'll get a translation, would make things easier.

[wuhugm]

^Traitor!

Originally Posted by Rasty

^ But she can never become loved ruler (even if ignoring the small problem of being a girl). The loved rulers are ones that are ready to sacrifice 10k to save 1 (Erquil way of doing thing). The other way around comes out as cold and cruel, even though it is much more for the good of all the people.

Just showing that people are illogical

[Rinvelt]

^What, you would rather I only read the dialogues and skip all the explanation?

I would rather improve my Japanese and make the narration a little less painful to read than ruin the story by skipping many things.

[wuhugm]

Ah, I'm watching Fate Heaven Feel and killing 1 to save many was Kiritsugu's policy

[Rasty]

Never watched the heaven feel adaptation, but wasn't Kiritsugu mostly in Zero?

Also, Shiro inherited his ideals and Arthur was actively doing that too, because of which got estranged from his people and got betrayed in the end. People just want another human to rule over them. Someone who acts strictly logical, does not place his relatives/loved ones first and has no desires is not human, that's just machine.

[XFire]

Originally Posted by Rasty

Never watched the heaven feel adaptation, but wasn't Kiritsugu mostly in Zero?

Also, Shiro inherited his ideals and Arthur was actively doing that too, because of which got estranged from his people and got betrayed in the end. People just want another human to rule over them. Someone who acts strictly logical, does not place his relatives/loved ones first and has no desires is not human, that's just machine.

Shirou completely rejects Kiritsugu's ideals in HF.

Spoiler for spoiler?:

He basically decides to burn the whole world down if that's what it takes to save Sakura.

There is a notable bad end where he instead follows in Kiritsugu's footsteps, though.

[wuhugm]

^Oi, spoiler

^^Shiro only inhererited the Ally of Justice thing
He's not radical enough to kill anyone even to save another

[XFire]

Originally Posted by wuhugm

^Oi, spoiler

^^Shiro only inhererited the Ally of Justice thing
He's not radical enough to kill anyone even to save another

That spoiler is the premise of the whole route though.

Nah, look up Mind of Steel. He's implied to basically wipe out everyone involved in the HGW, including Rin and Illya. Its one of the crazier Bad Endings in the novel.

[wuhugm]

^Alternate routes don't count

[XFire]

Originally Posted by wuhugm

^Alternate routes don't count

Ok, you've lost me.

I said in HF he rejects Kiritsugu's ideals completely, including the Ally of Justice thing.

The only time he ever takes on his ideals fully is in that Bad End.

Speaking of which, there's some implication that MoS is what leads to Emiya Alter in FGO, which is all kinds of hilarious given what he causes.

[dragon1412]

Shirou never actually embrace Kiritsugu ideal in my eyes, it's more having similar dream rather than same ideals, Shirou, even in Fate and UBW route, never actually that similar to Kiritsugu. You can't really count 2 people wanting to become allies of Justice is having same image in mind when it come to the Justice, Shirou's Justice seem really different from Kiritsugu's Justice from the start.

I agree with Erotora on this, we really shouldn't count bad end in. But otherwise, yeah, in MoS he is the most similar to Kiritsugu, given the similar choice he made, it's in that ending that Shirou image starting to connect to Kiritsugu

[XFire]

Originally Posted by dragon1412

Shirou never actually embrace Kiritsugu ideal in my eyes, it's more having similar dream rather than same ideals, Shirou, even in Fate and UBW route, never actually that similar to Kiritsugu. You can't really count 2 people wanting to become allies of Justice is having same image in mind when it come to the Justice, Shirou's Justice seem really different from Kiritsugu's Justice from the start.

I agree with Erotora on this, we really shouldn't count bad end in. But otherwise, yeah, in MoS he is the most similar to Kiritsugu, given the similar choice he made, it's in that ending that Shirou image starting to connect to Kiritsugu

I never said he did outside of the bad end though

Also, y'know, Archer's entire life as a Counter Guardian, but that wasn't strictly voluntary.

[Rasty]

^ UBW is basically the same ideal as Kiritsugu though

Spoiler:

and I would say archer's life before becoming guardian counts too.

Btw. HF is my favorite route in FS/N.

[dragon1412]

Originally Posted by Rasty

^ UBW is basically the same ideal as Kiritsugu though

Spoiler:

and I would say archer's life before becoming guardian counts too.

Btw. HF is my favorite route in FS/N.

No, Archer is more like just going along with Kiritsugu's ideal rather than actually embrace it, the very fact that archer want to kill shirou is the best proof, he only got the image and the method for efficiency, but ultimately, archer regret his choice, like he said with shirou in their fight, it is something he simply copy, MoS, however, Shirou went through the exact same thing as Kiritsugu, and choose to the same option, which lead to the actual ideal rather than archer

I feel all 3 are good, but if have to rank, then HF would probably my choice

Though we are getting side tracked enough already, let's go back to the topic

[XFire]

Originally Posted by Rasty

^ UBW is basically the same ideal as Kiritsugu though

Spoiler:

and I would say archer's life before becoming guardian counts too.

Btw. HF is my favorite route in FS/N.

Archer didn't have a choice though. After he became a CG he was basically forced to constantly kill people and it drove him more or less insane.

And UBW is "save as many as possible" I.e. what Kiritsugu wanted but never got.

[wuhugm]

^Those are not relevant anymore with this topic

You people should discuss whether killing 1 to save 10 is correct or not

The implications and consequences

As leader and as hero

[dragon1412]

Originally Posted by wuhugm

^Those are not relevant anymore with this topic

You people should discuss whether killing 1 to save 10 is correct or not

The implications and consequences

As leader and as hero

That would be depend on situation and scale, for once, killing 1 to save many is actually isn't that logical, since it could create backlash and unrest if handle badly, again, this is depend on specific situations and scale rather than simple correct or wrong

[Mirable]

New Chapter, Luna sure has a rough life in Lemurian empire.

MC likes to humiliate her daily for his own pleasure, Carolina still hate Luna gut and call her a whore, what's more according to chara intro, she and E-cup princess probably have cold war with each other due to past conflict between their mother country.

No friend and all alone in Lemurian empire, begin best girl is tough