Nanoha StrikerS - Generic Discussion

[Key Board]

I fail to see how Chrono staring gently at Fate counts as affection and why Chrono's various warm body language towards Amy counts does not

It seems to me that you have a skewed version on what the word means

[Nightengale]

Now, now...play nice, guys. This is starting to become the reason why I think a romance thread is not yet "right" for the typical Nanoha regular posters, even for those swinging left, right or in the middle.

I cannot remotely deny the IRC-ish chat talk and discussions of this Nanoha sub-forum, but this is what this place is. When half of the episode discussions aren't even about the episode itself but fan-conjured material and speculation based on the episode innuendos (( Nanoha's death, Elio's "threats", etc )), it goes to show. It's not the most proper conduct, but I'd be lying if I say it isn't entertaining.

The problem with regular discussions here, I suppose is that initiation of regular discussions bring up other aspects of the discussion that can probably be attributed to off-topicness. Take the Yuuno and Chrono talks for example. I merely questioned how the "shotgun" might've occured, (( I refuse to believe it's by do-ra-ma cliches )) and it went into Amy vs Fate vs Nanoha/migratory. Scaryyyyy.

[Key Board]

That's called a ship war, Sir

It occurs when certain people of certain pairings get over defensive

and as I said, it reminds me of the harry potter fandom

[KBTKaiser]

wasn't it mentioned on the OFFICIAL SITE that he's married with two kids? What I wanna know is how fast did he knock up Amy. XD

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by Key Board

I fail to see how Chrono staring gently at Fate counts as affection and why Chrono's various warm body language towards Amy counts does not

It seems to me that you have a skewed version on what the word means

I could say the same for you. You seem to believe that Amy was the only one the Chrono showed physical familiarity and affection to.

Putting aside my favorism, I was simply pointing out the faults in that claim.

@Nightengale

Cut the tracks! I can't stop this train!!!

EDIT:

Originally Posted by KBTKaiser

wasn't it mentioned on the OFFICIAL SITE that he's married with two kids? What I wanna know is how fast did he knock up Amy. XD

Twins.

Then again, I'm not surprised if they adopt.

(Yes, I'm bias)

[Nightengale]

I know. I was a lurker at Portkey, and the sheer hilarity of the shippiness there amused me so much I stopped lurking and sticked to nicely written fics and articles. Heck, even the articles on the "destiny" vs "reality" of canon of hopeful canon was...I dunno, stupid yet interesting to read. I know I was somewhat influenced, at least.

Okay, done with that, back on topic....

You sure about the twins thing? I mean, 2 kids in 4...4 and a half, or even 4 or one quarter years isn't too surprising. For all we know, one kid could be 4 and the other, 3 or 2.

[Key Board]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

I could say the same for you. You seem to believe that Amy was the only one the Chrono showed physical familiarity and affection to.

Putting aside my favorism, I was simply pointing out the faults in that claim.

No,you don't get it. I was surprised that you considered a warm glance to be a display of affection and his body language towards Amy, which is MORE physically intimate to not be one.

So yes, I am still saying that warm glance is incomparable to the gentleness and familiarity that he showed Amy. And while neither actions translate to "OMG I will make this person my bride in ten years" the fact remains that Chrono still knew Amy longer, was more physically closer and familiar and thus, I am still saying that pairing Fate and Chrono is even more random than pairing Amy and Chrono

[CrazyPerson]

Originally Posted by Key Board

...I am still saying that pairing Fate and Chrono is even more random than pairing Amy and Chrono

...no to mention the while sibling-in-law thing or anything...

Yet... it would have made me more happy to have Chrono to marry one of the three aces. Although it makes sense logically to have Amy and Chrono, but, it's random in the fact that it doesn't add anything to the story. It detracts from him because now the story branches out in that sort of useless detail. Bringing Chrono back having married an ace would be better for his character, but kills whoever he marries. I mean, they've gotten plenty of discussion from innuendos and implied events for the aces, but why stop it for Chrono? Why the heck did they tie him down? It just seems illogical. For lots of shipping and harems they do the same thing, NOT tie down the character with the most potential. You don't see Rin do anything special even AFTER Asa kinda sank her claws into him. You don't see Kyon picking Haruhi for her mania or Mikuru for innate cuteness or Yuki for her... silentness?

What they REALLY should have done is the same as what they did for the ACEs relationship and that is to have LEFT HIM THE !@#$ ALONE. It improves story discussion (well...we're character assassinating him anyway, but, meh.) and inter-character relationships (keep dropping subtle hints, we'll have people forming NNN, FFF, and HHH's trying to keep him from their girl).

Hell, if nothing else, it takes Amy out of the story and limits the cast. I never like Amy.

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by Key Board

No,you don't get it. I was surprised that you considered a warm glance to be a display of affection and his body language towards Amy, which is MORE physically intimate to not be one.

So yes, I am still saying that warm glance is incomparable to the gentleness and familiarity that he showed Amy. And while neither actions translate to "OMG I will make this person my bride in ten years" the fact remains that Chrono still knew Amy longer, was more physically closer and familiar and thus, I am still saying that pairing Fate and Chrono is even more random than pairing Amy and Chrono

And you don't get it when it's you who first said

Fate has zero tension towards Chrono (not that she was capable of having any, she was freaking NINE YEARS OLD) , and Chrono had a crush on Nanoha.

Chrono at least, seemed to have some physical familiarity and affection towards Amy

Which clearly states that you believe Chrono have NO/ZERO/NIL/NOTHING "physical familiarity and affection " towards Fate.

THIS is what rubbed me the wrong way.

My post in response to that was to show that Fate does have those with him. I never state that they were BETTER (Since there's no real measurements), but they exist nonetheless and therefore isn't 'random'.

EDIT:

Originally Posted by Nightengale

Okay, done with that, back on topic....

You sure about the twins thing? I mean, 2 kids in 4...4 and a half, or even 4 or one quarter years isn't too surprising. For all we know, one kid could be 4 and the other, 3 or 2.

It's from the Sound Stage. (Which on more then one occasion, I wish were fasle...)

But hey,anything's possible with those guys in charge of the story...

[Aaron008R]

Sigh...
Though there is honestly nothing devastatingly wrong with Amy taking Chrono, the main problem of the watchers here is his near-terminated chances for pairings with other girls (Most preferrably the Aces). To be precise, he was one of the more popular male characters in a majorly-female dominated cast. So it was only natural for a lot of people to hope that he gets a good developing romantic relationship with someone.
Though I agree that the AmyXChrono pairing had given people some bearing on what's to come, I can understand the feelings of other people who thinks that the engagement and eventual marriage was pulled out of nowhere at the drop of the hat. As much as relationships isn't really the main focus of StrikerS, I'm positive that quite a large number of people are dissapointed at the loss of the availability of someone who had a good chance of a would-be-a-hit-pairing with one of the main female characters. There are also others that would have at least wanted to see what happened between Amy and Chrono for 10 years.

Whew...

But hey, at least he has a successor. *nudge**nudge*

Well, that's should be enough from me for now.

[Kha]

Originally Posted by Aaron008R

Sigh...
Though there is honestly nothing devastatingly wrong with Amy taking Chrono, the main problem of the watchers here is his near-terminated chances for pairings with other girls (Most preferrably the Aces). To be precise, he was one of the more popular male characters in a majorly-female dominated cast. So it was only natural for a lot of people to hope that he gets a good developing romantic relationship with someone.
Though I agree that the AmyXChrono pairing had given people some bearing on what's to come, I can understand the feelings of other people who thinks that the engagement and eventual marriage was pulled out of nowhere at the drop of the hat. As much as relationships isn't really the main focus of StrikerS, I'm positive that quite a large number of people are dissapointed at the loss of the availability of someone who had a good chance of a would-be-a-hit-pairing with one of the main female characters. There are also others that would have at least wanted to see what happened between Amy and Chrono for 10 years.

Whew...

But hey, at least he has a successor. *nudge**nudge*

Well, that's should be enough from me for now.

Ya noe, Erio wouldn't be so popular if Chrono was still out there swinging.

Chrono: (Panting hard from being smothered by Amy) My time... It's over... My boy... Remember what I taught... You... Start small... Then grow... Soon they'll be all yours...
Erio: (Teary-eyed) I will not fail you...
Chrono: Then I have no regrets... (Gets dragged off into the abyss) ARGH!!!
Erio: (Dramatically) ONI-CHAAAAN!!!

Oh dear even I fell to the dark side on Erio...

[Chaos2Frozen]

Sigh, okay I'm back from cooling my head under a freezing waterfall and-

Originally Posted by Aaron008R

But hey, at least he has a successor. *nudge**nudge*

Well, that's should be enough from me for now.

Originally Posted by Kha

Ya noe, Erio wouldn't be so popular if Chrono was still out there swinging.

Chrono: (Panting hard from being smothered by Amy) My time... It's over... My boy... Remember what I taught... You... Start small... Then grow... Soon they'll be all yours...
Erio: (Teary-eyed) I will not fail you...
Chrono: Then I have no regrets... (Gets dragged off into the abyss) ARGH!!!
Erio: (Dramatically) ONI-CHAAAAN!!!

Oh dear even I fell to the dark side on Erio...

*Raised Eye-brow*

Save your ammunition, soldier...

I got a feeling we're going to need it when episode 5 comes out...




@Aaron008R
Actually, another reason why I like Chrono is because of his colour code ^^::
I absolutely LOVE black and Blue =)

Erio... Meh, I'll let it side... =P

[BatAttack]

Originally Posted by CrazyPerson

but why stop it for Chrono? Why the heck did they tie him down? It just seems illogical.

On the contrary, it seems very logical.
The writers were not going to give him any decent scenes anyway (like in the last two series), even though his ranking is just as high as the aces. By writing him into a marriage, the writers have given themselves an excuse to make him even more peripheral as a character.

Hell, if nothing else, it takes Amy out of the story and limits the cast. I never like Amy.

Awww.. so cruel. And I thought Amy was pretty darn cute.


Anyway...

@ KeyBoard: Though I agree with your points, your tone is very confrontational.


About fanfic pollution: I would probably prefer to read 5 pages of on-topic discussion about Nanoha, than have to wade waist-deep through 30 pages of fan-fic and speculation, looking for the on topic-tidbits.

But then, I am not the one being caterd to by this forum, so I will shut up.
It stands to reason that the forums are coloured by and cater to the people who have the most free time and interest, and thus who post most often.


Regarding the shutgun wedding idea, someone said KeyBoard's pic does not count, but I think it does, since it is from the official As to StrikerS manga (isn't it?).
I will link it again, since I think it is so cute.
http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/6494/moccnp0.jpg

Also, people do not always get into relationships through 'romance'.
In my 30 year lifespan I have seen plenty of couples get together who I thought were just friends, and never gave a hint of romantic involvement.
Playfulness is as good a foundation for a relationship as 'romance' - and probably a better foundation that a 'crush' is.

That's my $0.02 AUD.

[Kikaifan]

Frankly this is all new to me. The last show I watched that had any large-scale shipping going on that I was exposed to was The Slayers...

I think we're real short of evidence either way on the relationship between Chrono and Fate. I mean, he both trains her personally and becomes her adoptive brother- they have extensive professional and familial contact- but due to the focused plots of the first two seasons we never see any of this. It's hard to make a judgment when all the relevant material is relegated to a few panels in the manga.

I know being a fanboy is all about making a lot out of a little, but even so in this case there's just too little and the scope of what we aren't shown makes it apparent.

[BatAttack]

Could someone please elaborate on this term "ship war"?
I am not familiar with it, and can not find any references to it in urban dictionary etc.

[CrazyPerson]

Originally Posted by BatAttack

On the contrary, it seems very logical.
The writers were not going to give him any decent scenes anyway (like in the last two series), even though his ranking is just as high as the aces. By writing him into a marriage, the writers have given themselves an excuse to make him even more peripheral as a character.

Well... I guess you're right. But I just feel like Chrono's potential was wasted. I must be watching too much of the old Nanoha series. Anyone think the writers lost out on the chance to develop the oldie characters like Yuuno, Chrono, Arf, Amy, for new characters like Shario, Verossa, and Carim? Introducing new characters might just reduce the amount of time each character really gets. I'd thought they'd stick more to the old chars and that gives everyone more screen time.

Being sidelined... heh, poor Yuuno, Chrono, Arf, and Amy.

((EDIT: To avoid double posting))

Originally Posted by BatAttack

Could someone please elaborate on this term "ship war"?
I am not familiar with it, and can not find any references to it in urban dictionary etc.

"Ship war" comes from "shipping" which comes from a shortening of of the word "relationships." You should be able to look up "shipping." Anyway, a "ship war" is a rather heated discussion between groups of people who feel what character should be paired with whoever. You'd have factions of people like NanohaXFate duking out against people that are NanohaXYuuno for who they think is a better pairing on so forth.

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by BatAttack

Regarding the shutgun wedding idea, someone said KeyBoard's pic does not count, but I think it does, since it is from the official As to StrikerS manga (isn't it?).
I will link it again, since I think it is so cute.
http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/6494/moccnp0.jpg

That would be me, but the reason why I said it didn't count was because there were some... Additions done to it.

It was in reference to the screenshot I've posted.

Originally Posted by Kikaifan

Frankly this is all new to me. The last show I watched that had any large-scale shipping going on that I was exposed to was The Slayers...

For large-scale shipping, go see the Hetero-phobic legion.

I think we're real short of evidence either way on the relationship between Chrono and Fate. I mean, he both trains her personally and becomes her adoptive brother- they have extensive professional and familial contact- but due to the focused plots of the first two seasons we never see any of this. It's hard to make a judgment when all the relevant material is relegated to a few panels in the manga.

I know being a fanboy is all about making a lot out of a little, but even so in this case there's just too little and the scope of what we aren't shown makes it apparent.

This could be said the same for any other Chrono pairing.

Curse those writers and their lack of side character favorings...

EDIT:

Originally Posted by BatAttack

Could someone please elaborate on this term "ship war"?
I am not familiar with it, and can not find any references to it in urban dictionary etc.

It's basically two or more seperate factions of fans that support different pairings throwing fireballs at each other.

[Kikaifan]

Yeah, but like I said, with Chrono and Fate you know they interact a ton, but you don't see how.

[dkellis]

Originally Posted by Kikaifan

Frankly this is all new to me. The last show I watched that had any large-scale shipping going on that I was exposed to was The Slayers...

Shipping wars happen pretty much in every fandom there are a substantial number of fans and more than one pairing possibility, in any direction. I've seen shipping wars for the English Premiere League. It's scary at times.

Tangent: I once witnessed a shipping war for Veronica Mars where there were several factions all championing guy/guy relationships between the various characters, and not one faction championing a heterosexual relationship. I think the canon was heterosexual, albeit uncertain.

I've actually tried some preliminary research as a hobby (a year back or so) as to why some shipping wars are so intense and why others are not so much, but so far I've only seen what looks like evidence that shipping wars which concentrate on the relationships seem to be more of a female thing, while shipping wars which concentrate on the characters (see: Shuffle forum) seem to be more of a male thing. This is nowhere near statistically sound, so take it with a grain of salt.

The current shipping war for MSLN is rather tame by comparison. Possibly this is because we don't have much canon relationships other than Chrono/Amy, and the circumstances behind that are mysterious at best. I mean, is there any definite indication that they got married because of improprieties? Not "hints" or "interpretations", but actual, explicit statements by creators or in the official manga or some such. Chrono or Amy going "well, a lot of things happened" can mean anything.

A note, however: one characteristic of shipping wars is that they invariably deteriorate to flaming rows, where various factions concerned refuse to listen to any arguments that would undermine their own positions. It's something like "I'm right and you're wrong" without any actual dialogue; just people yelling at each other and not actually hearing anything. (That's why it's called a "shipping war" instead of a "shipping discussion", I suppose.) I've already seen signs of that here, and I'm worried about modly intervention, so even if something seems patently obvious to you, please do explain it anyway in as polite a manner as possible.

[BatAttack]

Thanks everyone for ship war definitions.
I was expecting the derivation to have some naval origin.. so.. ummm.. yes.

Originally Posted by CrazyPerson

Well... I guess you're right. But I just feel like Chrono's potential was wasted. I must be watching too much of the old Nanoha series. Anyone think the writers lost out on the chance to develop the oldie characters like Yuuno, Chrono, Arf, Amy, for new characters like Shario, Verossa, and Carim?

I agree there completely. Elsewhere both others and myself have expressed frustration with the writers blatant favouratism of the main characters.

With Chrono, I'm not so concerned by his character, but I definitely want to see him fight. He needs a good, climactic fight scene, with plenty of money-shot animation moments (like Nanoha vs Vita in ep1 of As).

Yuuno has a lot of potential in his clan background (as plenty of others have said).
The Scrya clan could be anything at this point.. the writers really are free to flesh them out in any way that serves the story. But no, instead, we get some chruch.

Another thing that ticks me off is ppl who keep dismissing Yuuno 'cos he is not a powerful combat mage (even though his non-combat magical abilities are good) - calling him a bookworm. That's a derisive term for, in this case, an academic.

Academics .. magical theorists. The people who no doubt developed magic to the state it is in now, and created intelligent devices, tomes of knowledge, spells, artefacts.

But no, all glory goes to the warriors. *sigh*

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

That would be me, but the reason why I said it didn't count was because there were some... Additions done to it.

Hmmm.. I think he just added colouring for emphasis, and the editorial commentary on the side. The panel contents, including blushes, are all in the original.

Originally Posted by dkellis

Chrono or Amy going "well, a lot of things happened" can mean anything.

Yes, it could. But adding the context in the panel, Chrono looks irritated.. and Amy is clearly embarassed, and wants to move off the subject as soon as possible. That hints strongly at the 'knocked-up' possibility (or some variant thereof). Granted, it's not conclusive, but it is what I thought of right away when I read that panel.