(L) Tokyo Ravens

[orion]

Originally Posted by DragoonKain3

So you mean to say that the prim and proper lady Natsume from episode 1 and 2 is actually the 'fake' personality all along?

Now that you mention it, current Natsume does act more like Hokuto. I've been under the impression that the 'natural' Natsume (I'm gonna avoid using 'real' and 'fake' now... too easily misunderstood I guess) was the ladylike acting one, but it's actually her bokuko self? Kinda weird that the rules imposed on her brought out her 'natural' personality, which is a huge departure from most other anime where rules tend to make another persona of that character, forcing them to hide their true nature. But hey, I buy it this time around.

I don't think that it's hard to accept that people are multifaceted creatures. The same is being shown with Natsume. One part of her is proper, the other side lets her hair down and the third side has to act like a boy. There is no "fake" or "natural" as they are all different aspects of her.

[0utf0xZer0]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

I largely liked Episode 4, but some elements of it remind me of Infinite Stratos Season 1 a bit more than I'd like it to...

So that one annoying girl is like Cecilia? This is going to be one of those "can't unsee" things isn't it?

Originally Posted by Triple_R

However, I'm fine with the Natsume/Hokuto situation. It's now very clear that Hokuto's personality was heavily, if not entirely, based on Natsume's real personality. Maybe the two aren't exactly one and the same, but current Natsume makes me think of Hokuto more than she does the Natsume of Episodes 1 or 2.

Personally, I find Natsume a generally cute and endearing character.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

I think that Natsume's Hokuto-personality is her "relaxed" personality. Her prim and proper lady personality is her "guarded" personality, used to test the waters with people/situations she's not entirely comfortable with yet. I don't think it's entirely fake, but it's her in a defensive position.

It's not that "rules", per se, bring out Natsume's "relaxed" personality. It's that being with people she trusts as friends, and being with her peers in a classroom setting, brings out her relaxed personality. That's my take anyway.

I don't agree that her ladylike personality is her guarded one. In fact, I think it's the personality she feels the most comfortable slipping into.
Hokuto gives her an outlet for the side of her that regrets her reserved tendencies. It gives her an opportunity to slip into another identity and be more outspoken.
And I think the boyish Natsume we see in Tokyo is actually the guarded and high strung one. She may act closer to Hokuto than the Natsume we saw earlier, but she does so for entirely different reasons.

I don't think any of the personalities is "true" Natsume. True Natsume is a conflicted and multi-faceted character - a shy girl who wishes she was more outgoing and who doesn't maintain her composure well when pressured. I do agree she's cute and endearing though.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by 0utf0xZer0

So that one annoying girl is like Cecilia? This is going to be one of those "can't unsee" things isn't it?

Definitely.

Spoiler for Infinite Stratos comparisons, implied spoilers:

The fact the first major plot in this new school is her and Harutora having a staged battle with each other is just too much, lol. Then there's Harutora's continued denseness over the Natsume/Hokuto connection...

I don't agree that her ladylike personality is her guarded one. In fact, I think it's the personality she feels the most comfortable slipping into.
Hokuto gives her an outlet for the side of her that regrets her reserved tendencies. It gives her an opportunity to slip into another identity and be more outspoken.
And I think the boyish Natsume we see in Tokyo is actually the guarded and high strung one. She may act closer to Hokuto than the Natsume we saw earlier, but she does so for entirely different reasons.

What leads you to this conclusion?

I respect your opinion, but I think the opposite makes more sense. If Natsume wanted to get closer to Harutora through a sort of copy of herself, wouldn't she want that copy of herself to portray her most sincere and relaxed personality? If you wanted to truly connect to a person you have a crush on, wouldn't you want to show them "the real you"? I mean, this is the side of Natsume that became friends with Harutora and Touji.

What personality do you show to your closest friends? Your most relaxed self, or your more guarded self?

[0utf0xZer0]

Spoiler for Infinite Stratos comparisons, implied spoilers:

Originally Posted by Triple_R

The fact the first major plot in this new school is her and Harutora having a staged battle with each other is just too much, lol. Then there's Harutora's continued denseness over the Natsume/Hokuto connection...

KanaHana playing a reverse trap doesn't help matter either, I take it.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

What leads you to this conclusion?

I respect your opinion, but I think the opposite makes more sense. If Natsume wanted to get closer to Harutora through a sort of copy of herself, wouldn't she want that copy of herself to portray her most sincere and relaxed personality? If you wanted to truly connect to a person you have a crush on, wouldn't you want to show them "the real you"? I mean, this is the side of Natsume that became friends with Harutora and Touji.

What personality do you show to your closest friends? Your most relaxed self, or your more guarded self?

I think the description of her as being "guarded" may be causing some issues here. There are certainly things Natsume won't express as Natsume that she will express as Hokuto. "Hokuto" has broken out of her "shell" while Natsume has not. We witnessed the moment it happened: it happens when Harutora chases Hokuto around in a goofy matter, prior to that she's reserved even when she's in her Hokuto role.

But I don't think she's uncomfortable in her "lady" role. I think that comes naturally to her because she's shy. I do believe she's uncomfortable in her "boy" role - hence her statement that the traditions are a problem. I tend to think of her "boy" personality as her guarded one simple because of that tension.

Hokuto? Hokuto is only part of her real personality. Hokuto was who she wanted to be - like many shy girls, she wanted to be more outgoing. That she managed to be successful at it was a happy coincidence.

So to recap my view: Hokuto and "lady" Natsume are both aspects of her real personality, while "boy" Natsume is fake - though the frustrations she expresses as "boy" Natsume are very real.

[Znail]

Well, you can ususally break down peoples personality in three distinct areas.
Your official persona, the one how people expect you to be.
How you want to be, if your wishes came true.
How you really are inside, faults included.

I see the lady and boy parts as part of her official person and how she acts due to how people expect her to act.
Hokuto was how she wanted to be, by playing a role she managed to get rid of some of her issues.
How she really are is a shy girl in love.

[Iron Maw]

Man, the full OP is every bit as good as I expected. I've had on repeat for a good several hours now.

Can't wait for my copy to get here!

[Kleeyook]

Originally Posted by Iron Maw

Man, the full OP is every bit as good as I expected. I've had on repeat for a good several hours now.

Can't wait for my copy to get here!

Well, the TV version of Tokyo Ravens OP has the played count around 200 times. 1.5 min x 200 = 300 min = 5 hours. That's quite a lot for me too. Just get the full version on 3rd Nov. 1 min 30 sec is too short imo, hence the repeated.

[Iron Maw]

I know what you mean. I think have listened to the song at least 3 times a day since the show aired. Can't help myself FFFUUUU-

BTW, looks like someone finally did it:

NicoNico

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm22135919

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Fate/Zero one too.

YouTube

https://youtu.be/G92zgkV2U0E

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[MisaoFan]

Spoiler for Episode 5:

The episode dives us into the abduction of Natsume. It was pretty clichéd in the way it handles as she becomes a damsel in distress, but I like the cool techniques of the main characters facing against a supernatural creature. At least we find out that Kyoko is Harutora's childhood friend but the feelings' denial is strong. I don't think they will fall in love as Harutora already had Natsume, but let the friendship growing into them. I like how the show had a equal male:female cast ratio, it feels balanced and actually go beyond harem so long as only a few girls is interested in Harutora. He's a bit dense, but not a bad lead overall. Next episode feels like it will be a break from the academy training perhaps judging by its title, whether I will be wrong or not will be answered.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by 0utf0xZer0

I think the description of her as being "guarded" may be causing some issues here. There are certainly things Natsume won't express as Natsume that she will express as Hokuto. "Hokuto" has broken out of her "shell" while Natsume has not. We witnessed the moment it happened: it happens when Harutora chases Hokuto around in a goofy matter, prior to that she's reserved even when she's in her Hokuto role.

But I don't think she's uncomfortable in her "lady" role. I think that comes naturally to her because she's shy. I do believe she's uncomfortable in her "boy" role - hence her statement that the traditions are a problem. I tend to think of her "boy" personality as her guarded one simple because of that tension.

Hokuto? Hokuto is only part of her real personality. Hokuto was who she wanted to be - like many shy girls, she wanted to be more outgoing. That she managed to be successful at it was a happy coincidence.

So to recap my view: Hokuto and "lady" Natsume are both aspects of her real personality, while "boy" Natsume is fake - though the frustrations she expresses as "boy" Natsume are very real.

I think I see what you're saying here. It does make a fair bit of sense.

One thing about "boy" Natsume - In Episode 4, I noticed that one of Natsume's classmates referred to her as "he" (at least that's what my subtitles had). This makes me wonder if Natsume's real gender is being hidden in this school. If so, that could add an interesting wrinkle to the conflict between Natsume and the bossy girl.

[Flower]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

I think I see what you're saying here. It does make a fair bit of sense.

One thing about "boy" Natsume - In Episode 4, I noticed that one of Natsume's classmates referred to her as "he" (at least that's what my subtitles had). This makes me wonder if Natsume's real gender is being hidden in this school. If so, that could add an interesting wrinkle to the conflict between Natsume and the bossy girl.

Yes - Natsume's gender is being hidden. Iirc that is what is making it so difficult for her is that the family tradition insists that the rep of the family be male, so in "public" Natsume must present herself as a male.

[Breimoon]

that villain was so....broken.....

[Ickarium]

I liked it well enough, though it was mostly setup for later plot arcs, I think.

I really wish there'd be less of Natsume-Tsundere-mode.

I also want to know just what this promise is, as apparently it was Harutora that made it. Something about a ribbon.

[HandofFate]

wait, so people actually think Natsume is a guy, and isn't just going along with the whole acting like a guy thing?

Cause Natsume isn't even binding her chest, small as it is, you can still see her mounds clearly...

[Quol]

Originally Posted by Ickarium

I liked it well enough, though it was mostly setup for later plot arcs, I think.

I really wish there'd be less of Natsume-Tsundere-mode.

I also want to know just what this promise is, as apparently it was Harutora that made it. Something about a ribbon.

Spoiler for Light Novel Spoiler?:

She visited their house and harutora found her while she was looking for a ribbon she lost, at the end of the day they didnt find it but harutora said he will keep looking and give it back the next time they see each other (she thought harutora was natsume)

Also anime logic dictates that if a female wants to dress as a male only the most perceptive will notice.

Other than that did anyone else see the rock-paper-scissors after the credits between kon and the demon? Kon just got waaay better in my opinion

[MCAL]

Well that felt rushed. But that's what happens when you adapted one LN into two episodes. The battle at the beginning was hardly necessary, no?
And let me get this straight. Harutora was too dense to figure out who "Hokuto" really was, but not to figure out the less obvious fact that Kuruhashi was making up with him to try to get to Natsume.

[Iron Maw]

If you haven't read the LN/Manga then this episode was pretty solid. Once again, it covered a ton ground, in fact the entirely of Vol 2 was done here more or less. The staff had to make quite a lot of changes in terms of dialogue, scenes and timeline to get to that point but, most major points and developments were hit. Productions values and such were still very good.

As an adaptation however

Spoiler for Manga/LN comparsion:

I'm not really fond of a lot those changes and all of them happened due to the breakneck pacing. I can't believe they ran through 5 chapters (40 pages each) of manga and the rest of 60% of the second novel. They shortened showndown between Harutora and Kyuoko even more than in the manga and cut out the arguments that happened with Natsume and Harutora. The Yakou Disciple wasn't nearly as unstable in the original material and what spur him to act had less to do with Natsume and much more to do with Harutora's influence on her (and wanted him dead as result). But because that was glossed over his actions and timing made less sense here and dynamic with Kodoku fight was completely changed. They also removed Touji's role in getting through that part which was supposed showed off his strategic mind.

The climax at the arena wasn't altered as heavily. Most of battle in manga was mainly involved Harutora, Kon, Kyouko, and her two familiars. However only Haru (who did most of work) and Kon fought the fake Kakugyouki directly, for good reason since every one of it's blows would have been fatal for anyone else without barrier provided from the staff. Lastly, because they moved some scenes up a bit, they cut the conversation about that Yakou Disciple between Harutioa and Touji.

There were two very important scenes missing from the aftermath of this event, but I suspect the staff with put them at beginning of next episode. Most likely in guise of a flashback.

Judging by next week's title, it looks like they are including the side stories, which is probably partly why this arc was basically crammed here.

Originally Posted by Ickarium

I really wish there'd be less of Natsume-Tsundere-mode.

Funny thing is, she really isn't a Tsundere. Natsume is mild at best in that area. Prior to this fight she was described by her classmates as being more distant towards people rather than "mean" a'la modern and classic Tsunderes. The one points of this arc was moving her past that. Hence her making amends with Kyouko.

Originally Posted by HandofFate

wait, so people actually think Natsume is a guy, and isn't just going along with the whole acting like a guy thing?

Cause Natsume isn't even binding her chest, small as it is, you can still see her mounds clearly...

She has them in the manga, you can blame the anime staff for that. That said, it's not huge deal eitherway especially given how traps are nowadays.

Originally Posted by MCAL

Well that felt rushed. But that's what happens when you adapted one LN into two episodes. The battle at the beginning was hardly necessary, no?
And let me get this straight. Harutora was too dense to figure out who "Hokuto" really was, but not to figure out the less obvious fact that Kuruhashi was making up with him to try to get to Natsume.

Because it's entirely due to how he views Natsume (who he considers to be fairly arrogant, a slave driver and someone too hang up on appearances and titles), but yes Harutora actually much more perspective than he let's on.

[Jerseykid]

that was some epic anti climaticness when it ended at the broken sword.

[AC-Phoenix]

I wonder ´how that girl's feelings will change once she realized how she actually made that promise with Harutora(as seen in his memory) lol

[Marcus H.]

Jan-ken-chomp!

I wonder ´how that girl's feelings will change once she realized how she actually made that Promise with Harutora(as seen in his memory) lol

That's gonna be chaos. She'll realize that she has been lezzing out on Natsume and she should have been targeting Bakatora instead.
But hey, lezzing out is not that bad, actually.