2009-03-18, 17:58 | Link #4101 | ||
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Los Angelas, California
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2009-03-18, 17:59 | Link #4102 | ||
Shameless Fangirl
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Germany
Age: 33
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And where did I say that was a bad thing? Still, the fact that she wanted to "bear her brother's sins" and feels responsible for his actions speaks for itself. Quote:
Because there isn't just "perfectly sane" and "totally psycho". The world isn't black and white - you can't just say "a person with some psychological issues would have killed themselves". If there is a child that says things like Lelouch did in Sound Drama 0.515 (and in the novel Stage 0, but let's leave that aside here), that's not a very good sign. If you can kill your own brother without even doing so much as to flinch, that's a bit worrying, too. If you get off on making people kill themselves and are prone to hysterical laughter, and if you are obsessively looking for you mother's murderer... well, maybe we define sanity different, but not every person with psychological issues is Mao. Every person has a limit, and Lelouch simply had been through too much.
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2009-03-18, 18:03 | Link #4103 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
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Light is a villain protaganist, while Lelouch is a Byronic Anti-Hero. |
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2009-03-18, 18:06 | Link #4104 | |
Shameless Fangirl
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Germany
Age: 33
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And that reminds me... Light didn't kill himself, either. And I'd say he's definitely not "sane". Now, he's not the same kind of "not sane" as Lelouch, because Light is a narcissistic sociopath more than anything else (maybe with some depressions in the beginning), but yeah... there are many different kinds of psychological issues, and some are more "severe" than others.
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2009-03-18, 18:26 | Link #4105 |
Banned
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: U.S.A.
Age: 35
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I'd agree with the Light vs. Lelouch assessment in that the main difference between them is that, while Light believed he wasn't doing anything wrong, Lelouch did what he know was wrong to achieve results.
The thing is though, that Lelouch believed that the good that would arise from his actions would outweigh the harm that he did, which is a very interesting concept. Yes, even though the acts themselves are evil, he believes that good will arise from it, so one could say that even if he is doing bad things, he could believe that what he's doing is right in the long run. Of course your opinion about Lelouch and his actions pretty much comes down to your own beliefs, whether you think it's okay to compromise your values in time of need or not. Personally, I'm leaning towards "not". Anyway, since yvj seemed to like the idea, I present to you all a unique, yet highly improbable and totally OOC, short fic on the idea that Gino would attempt to inform the world if he was told the truth behind Lelouch's Zero Requiem. Of course I would never submit this to FanFiction.net since everyone would immediately know that I ripped off Watchmen. Plus, it's kind of an inside thing. So without further ado.....oh, and it's in script format. Hope you don't mind. Spoiler for size:
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2009-03-19, 01:02 | Link #4108 | |
今宵の虎徹は血に飢えている
Join Date: Jan 2009
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2009-03-19, 08:55 | Link #4109 |
~Hi -mi- tsu des~
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Canada
Age: 39
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Killing Clovis makes Lelouch mentally unsound? Lelouch said it himself, is there any reason needed to kill the enemy commander in war? You can liken that act as his declaration of war against Britannia and his father.
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2009-03-19, 09:26 | Link #4111 | ||
今宵の虎徹は血に飢えている
Join Date: Jan 2009
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2009-03-19, 09:31 | Link #4112 |
~Hi -mi- tsu des~
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Canada
Age: 39
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And does that matter? Nothing in the scene with him killing Clovis and his actions after regarding it points to Lelouch as being mentally unsound as his reason. at all. Lelouch wanted information on his mother, wanted to use Clovis to farther his plan by killing him and later coming out as a defender of justice, and as like a declaration of war to Britannia.
I'm sorry but what? Was Lelouch using Fleija for the fun of it or something? He was out to make himself the most evil bastard in history, it was for a purpose and part of his calculations for the ZR, which while stupid, still worked and we had a story book peace at the end. Schneizel was the one that you'd have a better chance of labeling as mentally unsound but even then that is debatable. |
2009-03-19, 11:08 | Link #4113 |
zzzzzzzz
Join Date: Oct 2008
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To be honest, killing Clovis was a mistake. Given how superior Lelouch was to him in military tactics, he would've been better off leaving him alive and not drawing attention while he built up power, seeing as he could beat Clovis while chatting to Milly about parties at the same time. Instead he got Cornelia and the Glaston Knights down his throat.
But no, he did not need a specific reason to kill the guy. |
2009-03-19, 11:24 | Link #4114 | |
Shameless Fangirl
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Germany
Age: 33
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I don't care if Clovis was a bastard. He was Lelouch's brother, and probably one of the last people who would have wished him or Marianne any harm. Alone the fact that Lelouch seemed so sure that he was involved in his mother's death and that he was startled when he found out otherwise is an indication that his hatred for his family exceeds the boundaries of sanity a bit. Not to mention that he might very well have been able to convince Clovis to assist him without any trouble. Instead, he just broke ties with all of them, except maybe Euphie. They - meaning Clovis and Cornelia and in a rather twisted way even Schneizel - loved him, and Lelouch never stopped to think about that. He just saw his father's children, his enemies; and even though he had his reasons for that, he didn't even consider anything else. I also doubt Lelouch had great plans when he killed Clovis. His main reason was finding out who killed his mother there, and everything else was a merely useful side-effect. If Lelouch had been the epitome of sanity otherwise, there might have been a point in arguing. But I just can't see a person who smiles the smile Lelouch does at the end of the first episode as someone who is likely to be completely sane. And if they refused to eat what they were given as a child because their father told them they were "dead" if they accepted help from others, and if they speak about guards there to prevent them from killing themselves so naturally, and if they have some serious trust issues and can't help but suspect an ulterior motive whenever someone shows them kindness, then I don't care how much reasons they have for their behaviour - it's unlikely that they'll have absolutely no psychological issues later on. There are a lot of occasion which make me feel that Lelouch being completely sane is impossible. And considering how his life went, he'd have to be a Gary Stu to get away without some serious issues. Just because Lelouch doesn't seek death doesn't mean he's all that much more sane than Suzaku.
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2009-03-19, 16:45 | Link #4115 | |
~Hi -mi- tsu des~
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Canada
Age: 39
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Cornelia was necessary for him as well, facing her taught him what he needed to do to fight Britannia. If Lelouch could not overcome Cornelia then what are his chances against Schneizel and ultimately Charles which was his target? Nogitsune, your points as they are do not back the claim of Lelouch being insane, rather that he could not look past his own pain and feelings and emphasize with others that care about him. One does not have to be on the extremes of the spectrum of sanity or insanity. Lelouch is in no way the "epitome" of sanity, he has his moments of emotional instability like everyone else, but he is by no means insane because of killing Clovis. Guess what, he even threw up when he remembered it so he was not completely alright about it. -.- |
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2009-03-19, 17:01 | Link #4116 | |||
Shameless Fangirl
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Germany
Age: 33
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But if you classify "some pesychological issues" and "not being the most sane person around" as insane, then he definitely is - at least from my point of view. I never claimed that, though. I specifially said that Lelouch wasn't Mao, and that he is a very strong-willed person. But as far as I'm concerned, he has a lot more issues than your average seventeen year old boy, which is simply a consequence of the kind of life he lead. Not even Suzaku is "insane" in the strongest sense of the word, especially during the first season - but that doesn't make him sane. Quote:
And if he hadn't, I'd have indeed been a bit worried... splattered brains just don't look very tasty.
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2009-03-19, 17:20 | Link #4117 |
~Hi -mi- tsu des~
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Canada
Age: 39
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Judging his last words to Clovis, I'd beg to differ.
Luckily, we do not classify people who has some nebulous idea like "some psychological issues" and "not being the most sane person around" as insane. simply having more issues then your average seventeen year old boy does not make one insane. in⋅sane –adjective 1. not sane; not of sound mind; mentally deranged. 2. of, pertaining to, or characteristic of a person who is mentally deranged: insane actions; an insane asylum. 3. utterly senseless: an insane plan. sane –adjective, san⋅er, san⋅est. 1. free from mental derangement; having a sound, healthy mind: a sane person. 2. having or showing reason, sound judgment, or good sense: sane advice. 3. sound; healthy. Lelouch shows more characteristics of the definition of sane then he does of insane. He has a sound, though admittedly not always healthy mind (Nunally and emotional depression etc), has sound judgement and good sense as well as showing reason in many occasions (again the major exception being the crap involving Nunally). Certain lapses in his mental characteristics do not make him insane. |
2009-03-19, 17:43 | Link #4118 | ||||
Shameless Fangirl
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Germany
Age: 33
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Not that Lelouch is a sociopath... but really, truly sane? I don't think so.
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2009-03-19, 20:01 | Link #4119 | |
今宵の虎徹は血に飢えている
Join Date: Jan 2009
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