Macross Delta - Episode 19 Discussion / Poll

[Thess]

Originally Posted by stray

Well, we haven't seen Ranka for a while, and I suppose its possible she looks like Mao now but... I dunno, I kind of chalk this one up to a Protoculture fail-safe, kinda like replicants or something. Lord knows they have had a spotty history when it came to genetic engineering.

Ranka's and Sheryl's bacteria are in their guts (they are safe). Besides the condition of Windermerians isn't like Var or the disease Sheryl had, it affects them physically like their skin 'cracks' and rapidly aged after they hit 30. I don't think they are affected by the Vajra's bacteria rather by their own natural fold (Windermere is Fold Paradise, plus their runes are sensitive to this).

[Tak]

Originally Posted by stray

Well, we haven't seen Ranka for a while, and I suppose its possible she looks like Mao now but...

Huh!? How!?

She would not even be her 20s in 2060.

- Tak

[Kazu-kun]

So, I wonder why Berger decided to deliver this massive infodump. What does he get from this?

[D-Joe]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

So, I wonder why Berger decided to deliver this massive infodump. What does he get from this?

Kawamori sent him for saving budget.

[stray]

Originally Posted by Tak

Huh!? How!?

She would not even be her 20s in 2060.

Its 2067 isn't it? She would be mid 20's now... although I was being kind of sarcastic regardless.

Originally Posted by Thess

Ranka's and Sheryl's bacteria are in their guts (they are safe). Besides the condition of Windermerians isn't like Var or the disease Sheryl had, it affects them physically like their skin 'cracks' and rapidly aged after they hit 30. I don't think they are affected by the Vajra's bacteria rather by their own natural fold (Windermere is Fold Paradise, plus their runes are sensitive to this).

For Sheryl and Ranka to be "safe" and the Windmereans to suffer from calcification kind of implies a flaw somewhere. Either the Protoculture didn't quite get it right or they made it so the Windmereans have a short lifespan by design.

[HirouKeimou]

Originally Posted by Thess

Ranka's and Sheryl's bacteria are in their guts (they are safe). Besides the condition of Windermerians isn't like Var or the disease Sheryl had, it affects them physically like their skin 'cracks' and rapidly aged after they hit 30. I don't think they are affected by the Vajra's bacteria rather by their own natural fold (Windermere is Fold Paradise, plus their runes are sensitive to this).

Oh yes, Thess,

Spoiler for continuation question:

does this episode prove that Delta's anime is following the TV series of Frontier? Because call me crazy but the scene with the Vajra has Alto having severed the Queen's head like in episode 25.

[Thess]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

So, I wonder why Berger decided to deliver this massive infodump. What does he get from this?

It was in the script. The actor is probably someone famous who complained about getting a side role.

Spoiler for continuation question:

does this episode prove that Delta's anime is following the TV series of Frontier? Because call me crazy but the scene with the Vajra has Alto having severed the Queen's head like in episode 25.

Frontier is a tv series, remember that. It's probably just partly portraying what happened, like the movie version. Kawmaori said Vajra left the Galaxy after that which contradicts what happens in the tv show (they did leave in the movie). I think karice also has mentioned many times before that there's no real canon in Macross, just fictional portrayals of some real life events in Macross universe which Kawamori can change or omit at drop of hat.

[Kazu-kun]

Those "flashbacks" also have stuff from SDF and DYRL, so Kawamori doesn't give a damn about setting a clear continuity. He's mixing everything together.

[Thess]

Because it's all fictional anyway? It's like asking the movies or shows you watch of some historical event or period to be 100% accurate. Some get a few facts fairly accurate and fail in others.

[HirouKeimou]

Originally Posted by Thess

Frontier is a tv series, remember that. It's probably just partly portraying what happened, like the movie version. Kawmaori said Vajra left the Galaxy after that which contradicts what happens in the tv show (they did leave in the movie). I think karice also has mentioned many times before that there's no real canon in Macross, just fictional portrayals of some real life events in Macross universe which Kawamori can change or omit at drop of hat.

I mean which one is it following (series or movies) based off the information we are shown in Delta right now? Because although Kawamori says it's off the movies (Vajra gone), I also stare at that scene and wonder why every other series (including Plus and 7) got new animation for this filler episode except Frontier which only receives a modified animation of episode 25's ending where the Vajra abandon their planet and the Queen's head is falling off (which doesn't happen in the movies). This is becoming as bad as Gundam (continuation of which universe).

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by HirouKeimou

I mean which one is it following (series or movies)

Probably Both.

Originally Posted by HirouKeimou

This is becoming as bad as Gundam (continuation of which universe).

Kawamori already said he doesn't care about continuity. It's in an interview posted in this board, I think.

[karice67]

Originally Posted by Thess

It was in the script. The actor is probably someone famous who complained about getting a side role.

That's not how anime screenwriting works, and you know it.

I know you're frustrated at certain character arcs and what not, but could you please stop making snide comments that other viewers might take seriously because they know that you check Japanese sites/discussions and thus presumably know more than most?

For the record, I thought this was quite a poorly written episode. Not knowing exactly where the story will end, I can't say whether the info revealed in this episode was necessary or not. But the fact that it was pretty much dumped on us left a bad taste in my mouth, even if it did also advance the plot in a significant way.

[HirouKeimou]

Originally Posted by karice67

For the record, I thought this was quite a poorly written episode. Not knowing exactly where the story will end, I can't say whether the info revealed in this episode was necessary or not. But the fact that it was pretty much dumped on us left a bad taste in my mouth, even if it did also advance the plot in a significant way.

I believe it's even more of a filler than episode 15 for Frontier, and even that episode is a bit of an exposition dump.

I'll wager it's an episode for explaining what song is for in a Macross for newcomers. However, how many people does Kawamori believe are newcomers in his franchise at this point? Plus, if that's the case, this episode should have come around episode 5-10. Placing a filler episode here in a series where character arcs and plot progression should be going on is a bad move.

[Gravitas Free Zone]

Originally Posted by HirouKeimou

However, how many people does Kawamori believe are newcomers in his franchise at this point?

It is happening in sufficient numbers to be notable. It's weird for me to be effectively an ancient veteran in Macross discussions, and I caught up late.

[Thess]

Originally Posted by karice67

That's not how anime screenwriting works, and you know it.

I know you're frustrated at certain character arcs and what not, but could you please stop making snide comments that other viewers might take seriously because they know that you check Japanese sites/discussions and thus presumably know more than most?

For the record, I thought this was quite a poorly written episode. Not knowing exactly where the story will end, I can't say whether the info revealed in this episode was necessary or not. But the fact that it was pretty much dumped on us left a bad taste in my mouth, even if it did also advance the plot in a significant way.

That was mean to be a tongue in cheek comment, karice (I mean it as a commentary of Macross fiction within fiction, presumably Berger could be played by a famous actor who wants more screentime, rather than the anime industry VA wanting a bigger role. Sorry for the confusion).

I had no issue with his role (it's the doctor convenient plot device which made me raise an eyebrow). It was kind of foreshadowed by his reaction to Roid that he might not be fully onboard on Roid's plans. It does raises some questions about what is Lady M's connection with Epsilon which are hinted to be anti NUNS remnants and all. I speculated briefly Lady M could have been in charge of both Epsilon and Chaos when they first appeared as a crack theory based on the greek theme naming, not sure what to think now.

[HirouKeimou]

Originally Posted by Gravitas Free Zone

It is happening in sufficient numbers to be notable. It's weird for me to be effectively an ancient veteran in Macross discussions, and I caught up late.

I believe my issue with him doing it for newcomers is where this exposition dump is in the series. It's one thing to slowly build up to it in earlier episodes and slap it in your face in a short scene in this episode; but all of this required a full episode for it? It's not that I don't believe Delta has newcomers (idol singers attract attention); however, I argue it's not entirely necessary to explain every detail of every prior Macross so far. It's a little much... might even chase off newcomers who likely didn't even care.

My point is: this is unnecessary padding and exposition for this franchise. It's coming in the middle of what should be the build-up for the grand finale beginning. Of course, if this series had 36 episodes, I'd live with a filler episode like this to explain things; but at 26 with about 7 episodes to go... I'm inclined to call this a cop-out.

[Random14]

I have next to no idea what's going on, but...

Spoiler for clueless speculation:

So that Berger guy- do they think he's just a "neutral" representative interested in the current war, or know he's working with Windermere? Probably the former, but otherwise not sure why he bothered to visit Elysion at all. Unless he's worried about Roid's plans.

Doesn't help that Delta was in the dark on a lot of stuff until now, so guess had to catch them up somehow. Cool pipe/remote control.

Its nice to see some old Macross stuff drawn in the current Delta style, like Sharon's black box and holograms and Basara (forgot how silly those fighters looked), but an entire episode recap/infodump?! And with so much still left unknown with Mikumo and Hayate unconscious for the entire episode.

Sounds like an interesting idea that the Protoculture planned to use songstresses to rule the galaxy. Its been proven over and over that music is the most powerful force in Macross, not surprised they would try to weaponize it. Though I don't think it suddenly makes all singing bad, they probably just have to adjust their songs or something.

Heinz is probably dying with the way that doctor tried to tell Keith something. And still not much triangle progress of course. If they had wanted to annoy Mirage with referencing more of her famous family (between original Macross and 7), now would have been the time, but guess no time (or budget) for that. She reacted, but otherwise she's on par with Chuck (they animated his fins moving of all things?).

The last third (?) of the series had better be full of substance after an episode like this.

[karice67]

Originally Posted by Thess

That was mean to be a tongue in cheek comment, karice (I mean it as a commentary of Macross fiction within fiction, presumably Berger could be played by a famous actor who wants more screentime, rather than the anime industry VA wanting a bigger role. Sorry for the confusion).

Thanks for clarifying. Do use a smiley or something to make it obvious next time, would you?

I have enough of a headache trying to deal with all the misconceptions floating around as it is...

[Thess]

Originally Posted by Random14

Heinz is probably dying with the way that doctor tried to tell Keith something.

He wanted to tell Keith something about Gramia.

Originally Posted by karice67

Thanks for clarifying. Do use a smiley or something to make it obvious next time, would you?

I have enough of a headache trying to deal with all the misconceptions floating around as it is...

I was in a quick reply move and I forgot the I didn't think anyone would take that seriously. Sorry!

[Random14]

Ah, ok, I can tell there's a secret, but I'm just guessing from the animation (I'm not good at picking up words or names).