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Old 2018-11-06, 16:13   Link #61
ZGoten
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Maybe you're right about luck, but I hope you aren't, to be honest. Luffy has had to rely far too much on luck as of late - against Doflamingo, against Cracker, against Katakuri. It's time for a change of pace. This brings me to another point. Luffy may be on the level of low to mid tier yonko commanders, but he's not exactly on the level of some of the strongest ones we've seen. He was lucky Katakuri let him go, and he would likely need to be lucky in a fight against Jack or any possible commander above Jack too. My point is, the difference in power between Yonkou commanders differs greatly. Could Luffy defeat Jesus Burgess at the moment? Probably. Could he defeat someone on the level of Jozu or Vista? Maybe. Could he defeat someone like Marco, Katakuri or whoever Kaidou's top man is in a fight to the death? No, not yet. That's why I said he's still one step behind top yonkou commanders.
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Old 2018-11-06, 18:02   Link #62
marvelB
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Sorry, late response again:

Quote:
Originally Posted by TURI123456 View Post
When did the creator say this?
It came from his message during last year's Jump Festa:

Quote:
"Hi, I'm Oda. Are you enjoying Jump Festa? I'm watching OP Super Stage with you. It's fun, indeed. Actually I visit Jump Festa every year to have a dinner with Straw Hats VAs after JF. By the way, ONE PIECE will finally enter Wano next year!! (cheers!!) Some well-informed audience might think, "You said the same thing last year, right?" Yes, I did say that because I thought OP would be able to enter Wano in 2017. This time I'd like to add new information. I'll introduce one of the legends which lurks in ONE PIECE world. The legend will be the greatest enemy ever for Straw Hats which hinders their way. Perhaps it will be something related to Whitebeard. Oops, it seems I'm being too talkative. Can you believe Marineford Summit War will look "cute" compared to "that"? Anyway, there are tons of stuffs I wanna draw next year as well. I'll keep moving forward with my full force!! I'm sure you're gonna LOVE it!!"
Images
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^Note the sentence in bold.

---------------

BTW, I also agree with the notion that DF awakening will give Luffy a better chance against Kaidou in their eventual rematch (though again, I'm expecting our hero to face him with an army at his side by then). But then again, many people expected his awakening to occur when he fought Katakuri last arc, so who knows when his time will come....

Quote:
Originally Posted by khoa1708 View Post
do you think something like going super saiyan can happen in the one piece world?

for example, kaido picks up a badly injured tama and killing her in front of luffy's eyes; therefore causing him to snap and go "super saiyan"?

or is this too "cliche" for oda?

Honestly, even if I did expect something of the sort to occur, it wouldn't be with Luffy, but rather one of the other Straw-Hats. For instance, we saw Usopp awaken his observation haki during Dressrosa, and that was against a Shichibukai's crew. Maybe he'll go SUJ (Super Uso-Jin) now that he's facing a Yonkou's forces?
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Old 2018-11-06, 18:15   Link #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Theia_Loki View Post
Luffy didn't have any issues with assisting Bege in his plan to assassinate Big Mom, even though it went belly up.
The mugiwaras certainly don't have any issue with that. But that was because it wasn't exactly their main priority, their main priority was Sanji, as it should be. They were more like okay with anything if they got Sanji, whether Big Mom dead or not.
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Old 2018-11-06, 19:17   Link #64
Kanon
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I was one of those who totally expected Luffy to awaken his DF against Katakuri, but Oda chose to focus on Haki instead. I think that's what's going to happen here as well, and DF awakening will be saved for last. Luffy needs to increase his strength to beat a guy like Kaidou, and that means armament Haki. His armament Haki was in fact already shown to be lacking against Katakuri.
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Old 2018-11-07, 01:19   Link #65
Theia_Loki
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanon View Post
I was one of those who totally expected Luffy to awaken his DF against Katakuri, but Oda chose to focus on Haki instead. I think that's what's going to happen here as well, and DF awakening will be saved for last. Luffy needs to increase his strength to beat a guy like Kaidou, and that means armament Haki. His armament Haki was in fact already shown to be lacking against Katakuri.
Especially considering his Block Mochi is harder than Armament Haki.

Improving on that aspect of Haki might improve upon Luffy's chances of doing some level of harm to Kaidou in the event of a faceoff, but he'd still be up against a mountain of a man of muscle who's also able to turn into a dragon so it'd still be somewhat negligible.


And somehow I get the sinking feeling that Kaidou's "starting the greatest war the world has ever known" might force the WG to keep the Shichibukai system around out of desperation but heavily monitored, among other things. Don't know how much help those new inventions of Vegapunk's will be in the would-be war to make the removal of the system necessary. Then again, the army of Pacifistas that are 'outdated' by the present day there were more than capable of doing some heavy duty damage, so there might be more to the newer stuff than just firing pika pika lasers.

Quote:
The mugiwaras certainly don't have any issue with that. But that was because it wasn't exactly their main priority, their main priority was Sanji, as it should be. They were more like okay with anything if they got Sanji, whether Big Mom dead or not.
Yeah, I agree. Luffy probably figured partnering with Bege and his assassination ploy was a win-win scenario at the time whether it worked or not, and that's without taking into account the monkey wrenches that got thrown into things even if he had no way of knowing one of them would've worked in his favour (a.k.a. Tamatobako go BOOM!).
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Old 2018-11-07, 14:29   Link #66
The Small One
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanon View Post
I was one of those who totally expected Luffy to awaken his DF against Katakuri, but Oda chose to focus on Haki instead. I think that's what's going to happen here as well, and DF awakening will be saved for last. Luffy needs to increase his strength to beat a guy like Kaidou, and that means armament Haki. His armament Haki was in fact already shown to be lacking against Katakuri.
I'm actually expecting Luffy to put his King's Haki to use in battle.
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Old 2018-11-07, 17:41   Link #67
Ophis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZGoten View Post
Maybe you're right about luck, but I hope you aren't, to be honest. Luffy has had to rely far too much on luck as of late - against Doflamingo, against Cracker, against Katakuri. It's time for a change of pace. This brings me to another point. Luffy may be on the level of low to mid tier yonko commanders, but he's not exactly on the level of some of the strongest ones we've seen. He was lucky Katakuri let him go, and he would likely need to be lucky in a fight against Jack or any possible commander above Jack too. My point is, the difference in power between Yonkou commanders differs greatly. Could Luffy defeat Jesus Burgess at the moment? Probably. Could he defeat someone on the level of Jozu or Vista? Maybe. Could he defeat someone like Marco, Katakuri or whoever Kaidou's top man is in a fight to the death? No, not yet. That's why I said he's still one step behind top yonkou commanders.
Lucky Katakuri let him go? What? They both knocked each other out at the end, got up and talked some more, and Katakuri passed out for good while Luffy managed to still walk.

Although Luffy got some lucky opportunities in the middle of their fight, it still allowed him to reach Katakuri's level. Otherwise, Luffy wouldn't have won their fight.

The fact that Luffy managed to damage Katakuri enough to knock him out is more than enough proof that Luffy is currently more or less on par with top Yonkou commanders. If both were to fight again, although I wouldn't say Luffy can win for sure, it would be a very close victory over the other for either of them.
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Old 2018-11-07, 19:08   Link #68
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Since Big Mom’s weakness is sweets, maybe Kaido’s is alcohol. In which case we can and should expect a chugging contest between Zoro and Kaido, then luffy and the alliance can beat on a drunk
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Old 2018-11-07, 19:54   Link #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ophis View Post
Lucky Katakuri let him go? What? They both knocked each other out at the end, got up and talked some more, and Katakuri passed out for good while Luffy managed to still walk.

Although Luffy got some lucky opportunities in the middle of their fight, it still allowed him to reach Katakuri's level. Otherwise, Luffy wouldn't have won their fight.

The fact that Luffy managed to damage Katakuri enough to knock him out is more than enough proof that Luffy is currently more or less on par with top Yonkou commanders. If both were to fight again, although I wouldn't say Luffy can win for sure, it would be a very close victory over the other for either of them.
I think you completely misread the situation. Luffy didn't win. Katakuri knocked him out and then proceeded to stand over him for minutes, waiting for him to get up instead of finishing him off. That's a win for Katakuri. The moment Luffy got up, Katakuri let himself fall and let Luffy pass. You say Katakuri was knocked out, but he was talking to Brulee immediately after Luffy left, and he's pretty happy that Luffy made it out. I think it's pretty obvious that Katakuri let Luffy escape, to be honest.
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Old 2018-11-07, 20:07   Link #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZGoten View Post
I think you completely misread the situation. Luffy didn't win. Katakuri knocked him out and then proceeded to stand over him for minutes, waiting for him to get up instead of finishing him off. That's a win for Katakuri. The moment Luffy got up, Katakuri let himself fall and let Luffy pass. You say Katakuri was knocked out, but he was talking to Brulee immediately after Luffy left, and he's pretty happy that Luffy made it out. I think it's pretty obvious that Katakuri let Luffy escape, to be honest.
Honestly i start to respect Katakuri due to him being an honorable man. He was looking forward to see where he will fight Luffy again someday. Luffy is not yet ready to defeat Katakuri completely but in this case, Luffy also have a lack of sleep as well. I'm looking forward to when both are dueling in full condition since Luffy's fatigue is not entirely recovered during their campaign at Whole Cake Island.

I do hope that there will be another one on one duel that can be remembered aside of Sakazuki vs Kuzan that was written down on the books due to their everlast effect on Punk Hazard.
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Old 2018-11-07, 23:36   Link #71
Ophis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZGoten View Post
I think you completely misread the situation. Luffy didn't win. Katakuri knocked him out and then proceeded to stand over him for minutes, waiting for him to get up instead of finishing him off. That's a win for Katakuri. The moment Luffy got up, Katakuri let himself fall and let Luffy pass. You say Katakuri was knocked out, but he was talking to Brulee immediately after Luffy left, and he's pretty happy that Luffy made it out. I think it's pretty obvious that Katakuri let Luffy escape, to be honest.
Wait, what? Are we reading the same story?

I think you're the one who's completely misreading the situation. Katakuri talking to Brulee immediately after Luffy left? Dude, Brulee was capture by Pekoms who came right after Katakuri fainted for good and was even used as a shield by him when they got out of the mirror world. The talk Brulee had with Katakuri only happened after Luffy had already escaped from Big Mom's territory, and Katakuri was on the ground throughout their whole conversation. I really fail to see how you reached the conclusion that Katakuri let Luffy go.

Moreover, no, Katakuri didn't keep standing for minutes until Luffy got up. They were both knocked out together and then got up together.

I'm not sure what you mistakingly think to have happened, but here is the proof:

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The above images happened exactly after they both used their last strike. Which Katakuri missed by the way.

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Here we can clearly see Luffy getting out of that whole while Katakuri was still on the ground.


PS: The way I see it, the talk with Brulee suggested that Katakuri got up after Luffy knocked him down just so he could fall again with his back facing the ground, signifying the admission of his complete defeat.
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Old 2018-11-08, 01:47   Link #72
ZGoten
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You're right, I forgot that Katakuri was on the ground as well and that it was some time before Brülee talked to Katakuri. I was a bit cloudy on the chapters. However, I still think it's very obvious that Katakuri let Luffy escape here even though he could have killed him. I'm gonna number this to give it some structure.

1) Luffy fell to the ground first; Katakuri second. This is compatible with the idea that Katakuri falls down voluntarily after confirming that Luffy can't go on.
2) Luffy's eyes are completely white as to suggest he's knocked out.
3) The same doesn't happen with Katakrui. He closes his eyes almost like he's going to sleep and then falls down. It looks like he's just getting some rest.
4) The second Luffy gets up, Katakuri is right there above him, suggesting that he was conscious all along and could have got up at any moment.
5) Katakuri then asks him if he's going to take out Big Mom in the future, and only after Luffy says yes does Katakuri fall again.
6) Katakuri took no additional damage while on his feet, and, especialy after just resting, it seems odd that he would colapse involuntarily rather than purposefully.
7) Even Luffy is surprised when Katakuri falls down again. He expected Katakuri to have more fight in him, which he likely does.
8) When Brülee tells Katakuri that the Strawhats escaped, Katakuri is happy about that fact.

All of this, to me, heavily implies that after realizing Luffy's enormous potential and after confirming that he wants to defeat Big Mom at some point, Katakuri decided to let Luffy escape and grant him the chance to become even stronger. Either he wants somebody to defeat Big Mom, or he just didn't want to stand in the way of Luffy's growth. Or maybe something else is going on. His motivation is a little unclear. But what's very clear is that Katakuri let Luffy escape. Even though Luffy's potential surpasses his own, Katakuri was still the stronger fighter at the time of their fight and could have ended Luffy right then and there if he wanted to. Luffy was knocked out cold, whereas Katakuri seems to have been conscious the whole time after their final clash. But instead of finishing the fight with a win, Katakuri pretends to lose so Luffy can make his escape. It's incredibly unlikely that all these details throughout the chapters mean nothing and that Luffy actually beat an opponent that was outmatching him throughout the whole fight.
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