2011-08-14, 15:36 | Link #15781 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Gensokyo
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...What? Are you sure we are talking about the same thing? Are you implying France became URSS when Mitterand became president or when Jospin became prime minister? I'm talking about social democracy. |
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2011-08-14, 15:56 | Link #15783 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2009
Location: classified
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I'm referring to socialism in the Fabian sense, which has influenced Europe considerably after WWII. This gents blog describes what I'm referring to. http://www.social-europe.eu/2011/01/...e-future-hold/
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2011-08-14, 16:09 | Link #15784 | ||
I disagree with you all.
Join Date: Dec 2005
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(which rather baffles me. We've had socialist governments. I don't remember any Stalinian purge happening.) |
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2011-08-14, 16:19 | Link #15785 | ||||||
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Hamburg
Age: 54
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I prefer it that way. If only select people who apply for licences for valid reasons have firearms, people can't get killed with them (be it intentional or with accidents). There's a vast consensus about this, by the way. One of the main reasons? The situation in places without strict gun control. I'm not sure how I would feel if I lived in the US though. The situation is so screwed due to the easy availability of firearms that I could actually see me purchase a gun to be kept at home for my own protection. But this is merely the lesser of two evils. I'd take my chances to be "raped and pillaged by madmen" everyday. Quote:
"Clash of culture" doesn't convince me either. Germany is also extremely diverse ethnically by today, and our homicide rate is only minimally higher than Norway. Quote:
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Finally - have you ever been to Europe? If so, when and for how long? Quote:
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How exactly does the government "clamp down on society"? It's not us who feel like telling partners that they must not marry if they happen to be of the same gender. It's not us who want to tell people what to do and not to do in our bedrooms. We don't need to incarcerate 1% of our population. I can positively assure you that personal freedoms are actually much _bigger_ over here, since people can actually do what they want WITHOUT having economic coercion fence them in. Seriously, have you ever even BEEN here before, or are you just regurgitating what you read somewhere? Last edited by Mentar; 2011-08-14 at 16:58. Reason: typo fixing |
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2011-08-14, 16:34 | Link #15786 | |
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Age: 38
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2011-08-14, 16:34 | Link #15787 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Gensokyo
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Why do you even try argue? He is free to think what he wants -even if it is wrong-.
Sorry to put it like that GundamFan, but that's nearly a slap that you gave me, when I read Synaesthetic posts, the only thing I want to say is "come here", because it's unbearable for me to read this and simply think "well each person has its own shit, if he is poor, he has to deal with it." You are ready to sacrifice 90% of the population for ten percents by refusing healthcare -that is a choice- I won't tell you it's wrong or anything, US and Europe -especially the country where I live- have a little ... variance on this but I will only say this : Humans and savages animals are differents, why? Generally animals will give up and save their own lives instead of helping the ones behind, that is something that the human -should- not do. Socialism is at the very core of this, we have to try each others, ofc, the same way for religions there is "extremum"... I will agree only on one thing with you: communism as we know it, as history showed it, is not a good thing. Generally I only speak about the biological difference, to think I would go on philosophical differences ... Haaa, how rare. Well I will stop here though, it's not a political thread and I'm more the lurker type. |
2011-08-14, 18:11 | Link #15788 | ||||||||||||||
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2009
Location: classified
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Show trials: Stalinist purges in Eastern Europe, 1948-1954 (Google eBook) Quote:
It isn't the guns that are the problem. It's the conditions the people are living under that lead to crime and thus increased potential for violence and murder. Quote:
Nor does it make you any safer. Quote:
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But then again I was stationed at Bitburg airbase (USAF) for a few months during "Operation Desert Shield" and came back to Barksdale AFB in the states. Quote:
The reasons for the riots are the same as they were in the 1960s. The roll back of entitlement programs. I didn't say it happens on a regular basis, I said it happens due to the entitlement society and the mindset that comes with it. Putting trust in the police that are ordered to "stand and observe" isn't something I'm willing to put my faith in. Quote:
Here is a good example of Fabian influence, by the Fabians themselves. I fail to see how this is proganda since it's simply a fact that many persons of high postion in the EU are members of the Fabian Society. The Fabians have a great deal of influence on other socalist groups and are thus the model for European Socialism. What is so hard to understand about this? Quote:
See that tells me you don't even know what Fabianism is. Beatrice and Sidney Webb, and George Bernard Shaw created Fabian Socialism as a viable alternative to Marx and Engles "Scientific-Socialism." They didn't like each other, but both wanted to create planned societies. Marx was off in his la-la-land of a command economy while the Fabians were looking at how to create an actual working socialist model. I hate to have to defend the Fabians, but compared to Marx they are vastly more desirable. Quote:
The US supplied most of the military might for Europe for much of the Cold War, and we're still doing it today. Which is essentially military welfare to Europe, but hey...we'll just print more money to pay for it...our people are fat enough, they can starve a little bit to defend Europe for few more years. Quote:
And as I've said before. Collectivism comes in many forms, and I despise them all. To me there is no difference between banning gay marriage and banning guns. It's none of the government's damn business in either case and NO ONE has the right to tell another human being who they can marry or what property they can own. I'm sure it will shock you to know that I view abortion the same way. It is not the right of any one group to demand that a woman have a child if she doesn't want it. You appear to be erroneously working off the assumption that I'm of the right-wing. That shows me you have no idea just how far right the American right-wing is, since I'm considered a "lefty" by most people I know that are right-wingers. Quote:
You wanna know why? Because THEY WERE ARMED!! We have "gun free school zones" in the US, and thats why he chose a classroom he knew would be easy picking. Quote:
I feel the same way about you. You're wrong, about a great many things. I only hope that people will learn what Socialism is before we see it's darker side as the economies collapse. Marx was right about that in Das Kapital. Quote:
90% are going to just Die! Really? What are they doing now? Hmmm? The Health Care law hasn't taken effect yet. Are they dropping like flies? No, and they won't after the Health Care Law is declared unconstitutional. Get a grip. Quote:
It is a system that requires considerable overhaul to be viable. And Kudos to the Fabians for trying, but it's still not working because it doesn't take into consideration Human Action.
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2011-08-14, 18:37 | Link #15789 | |
RUN, YOU FOOLS!
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Formerly Iwakawa base and Chaldea. Now Teyvat, the Astral Express & the Outpost
Age: 44
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Now would you please slow down on that little silly act you have been pulling for a while? |
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2011-08-14, 18:38 | Link #15790 | |||||||
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Hamburg
Age: 54
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I can positively assuage your fears: Not even debating what the Fabian Society stands for, they're about as influential here as the Rosicrucians are in the US. Quote:
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2011-08-14, 18:38 | Link #15791 | |||||||||||
Knight Errant
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Age: 35
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The United States is the only country I've ever seen that has schools with armed guards posted at the doors, and grills on every window. I've never seen a European school get that bad(and I've seen some pretty poor slums). Quote:
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Read the communist manifesto. Marx's goal was a classless stateless society. That's a very different proposition from Feudalism. All the reactionaries of Europe hated the Socialist's guts, and they wanted a return to feudalism, where the average worker was a serf entirely controlled by their "betters". Now in effect, Soviet communism ended out as a sort of quasi-feudal arrangement, but that wasn't the goal of Marx, and it certainly wasn't the goal of European communists and socialists outside Russia. You can get a very good idea of Communist and Socialist ideals from reading the manifesto, it's also pretty well written. A lot more fiery then most manifestos. It tells you how Communists viewed themselves, and what their ideals were. Quote:
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And overall, Europe has lower gun violence and homocide rates, so I'd say the policies work. Quote:
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2011-08-14, 19:59 | Link #15792 | |
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Join Date: Sep 2010
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http://www.youtube.com/v/9pAC0YSmK0g |
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2011-08-14, 20:38 | Link #15793 | |||||||||||||||||||||
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2009
Location: classified
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My mistake, I'm having too much fun with Mentar right now. Quote:
Unlike other cultures, gun control laws don't stop criminals at all. I'd be dead right now if it weren't for owning a gun, so you're not going to convince me. Quote:
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I read his book "The Third Way" which was published by the Fabian Society. The way he writes it, you'd think that the Fabians rule Europe. Quote:
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It's not fair to Europe, nor the US to continue to have US bases on European soil. We're not your babysitters and I'm quite sure you don't want us to be. Quote:
I said I despise collectivism, and socialism is just one form. Theocracy is another, as it Fascism, etc. I understand that Stalin took the leap from socialism into despotism and I said so in my previous posts. Quote:
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We do like to fight, and we do like to kill. We immerse ourselves in sex, and violence in our entertainment and in our literature. So is it really that odd that the USA should have more school shootings, murders, or gangs then other Western countries? Take away the guns and you'll have the same rates of murder, gang violence, etc. only with different means. I don't mean that as a boast or brag, it's actually kinda sad. Quote:
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I see them as a rotting old socialist movement that's trying to hang on to it's influence by helping new socialist movements. Quote:
The reason the Ak is so reliable is because of its loose tolerances. The trade off is a loss of accuracy. Both are great weapons for defense. Quote:
The point I was making was that H.G. Wells, a Fabian member for some years, stated that Marx was dreaming about a new agrarian Feudal era. Quote:
Over here that wouldn't work due to the weapons smuggled in from South America, and the sheer number that are already here. Not too mention weapons that get sold on the black market. It's simply a matter of society and mindset, and that's what I've been saying from the begining. Quote:
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The corruption in such a system applied to the USA the way it is now would shock you. Quote:
The UK has the benefit of being surrounded by water on all sides, I doubt it's easy for criminals to smuggle weapons into your country. Quote:
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No wonder these shooters choose them. They're easy pickings. How many "gun-show" shootings do you read about?
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2011-08-14, 20:56 | Link #15794 |
Komrades of Kitamura Kou
Join Date: Jul 2004
Age: 39
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@DonQuigleone
I insists on the observation that social and moral change will always be the core requirement in deterring violent crime. The cliche that people kill people, not guns, will be sickeningly repeated ad nauseum, but it's truth will never dissipate.
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2011-08-14, 20:56 | Link #15795 | ||
He Without a Title
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: The land of tempura
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Also, regarding NATO: we are indeed very thankful to our allies in the organization for helping us with their military might. We in return have helped to the best of our abilities even when the organization was used to start a couple of wars of debatable usefulness following the 9/11 terrorist attacks. Quote:
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2011-08-14, 20:59 | Link #15797 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2009
Location: classified
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We Americans on the other hand, can't handle that kind of society. We'd flip out. Quote:
But aren't you Europeans sick of American bases in your countries?
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2011-08-14, 21:00 | Link #15799 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2009
Location: classified
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@Dextro: Touche!!
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2011-08-14, 21:05 | Link #15800 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
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In Oslo the shooter had a permit, was well prepared, attacked a public place and had the element of surprise. He used a semi-automatic weapon and wore body armor. How would anyone carrying a gun have made any difference? I'm sure that even people living in states without strict guncontrol would not walk around with rifles on their backs all the time. I'm not against gunownership, but I can't see trying to defend against a well organized attack as the most logical justification for owning a gun. Also, not possesing guns doesn't mean that Europeans don't care about their safety or will not take any responsebility for it. My girlfriend for example loves to go jogging in the evening. As she dual wields our 2 120 pound Rottweilers, I don't have to be concerned about safety, well... not hers at least. Joking aside, I think guns don't mix well with urban areas with drug, poverty and gang problems. If there are no guns easily available in the public space then non lethal means will be sufficient for self defence and that will keep the number of people dying from violent crime low. But as soon as guns are easily available in the public space, you will have to live with them, and owning one will put you (at least somewhat) back on par with criminals. |
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current affairs, discussion, international |
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