(L) Dragon Ball Super

[Wandering Soul]

Goku's final attack and all the lead up to it including sliding on Kefla's attack was awesome.

I'm glad that the two females Saiyans are out the picture and the Androids are getting some focus again.

[Nvis]

People forgetting that Super Saiyan Jin Blue Goku was not at 100% against Kefla.

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by xeviouses

So if Goku started his UI as a defensive fighter, Vegeta, if he gets it, might be the one to fight on instinct.

Don't forget Goku came up with this tournament to fight stronger opponents and push himself over the limit. If he fuses with Vegita to beat said opponents, it would defeat the purpose.

[sayde]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

Don't forget Goku came up with this tournament to fight stronger opponents and push himself over the limit.

In all fairness, that was before he knew it would come at the cost of putting every universe in jeopardy of being erased.

If he fuses with Vegita to beat said opponents, it would defeat the purpose.

Pretty sure Goku and Vegeta would both bite the bullet for a 3rd time and swallow their pride if Jiren proves to be too much to handle with Ultra Instinct and they're in imminent danger of their universe being wiped out.

With that said, this promo pic leads me to believe it will indeed be Goku who'll eventually master offensive UI since this pic clearly shows the blue UI aura with an extra layer of red extending outwards (which may symbolize the utilization of offensive UI). Even early promo art for this arc initially displayed Goku with the red aura as oppose to the blue aura. So Goku will likely learn to tap into offensive UI before this tournament is over.

I want more than anything to be wrong since I greatly prefer a scenario where Vegeta ends up unlocking the other half to UI, but I think Goku will solo Jiren leaving Vegeta cuck'd for the remainder of this arc. Those promo pics are just way too hard to disregard at this point.

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by sayde

In all fairness, that was before he knew it would come at the cost of putting every universe in jeopardy of being erased.

It doesn't change anything really. Goku's goal is still the same.

[SilverGlavenus]

Of all the shounen mangas and animes, I always see fights where characters put thoughts in it. Techniques and skills requires thoughts you know. Especially weakness, how can you figure out how to defeat the opponents if you don't know their weaknesses, unless you are already overwhelmingly more powerful?? That makes me wonder how offensive UI is gonna work.

[Kazu-kun]

I guess that's why they call it Ultra Instinct and not Ultra Reflex. Reflex are just responses, but instinct are actually complex patters and behaviors.

Goku, who is a master martial artist, has already learned multiple offensive skills and usage patterns for such skills. Ultra Instinct would act as autopilot for these techniques. The decisions would be made by given patterns Goku already has incorporated into his muscle memory and skill set instead of conscious decision making, which is too slow.

So really, Ultra Instinct offensive mode isn't really that hard to understand.

[azenable]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

It doesn't change anything really. Goku's goal is still the same.

rem Goku VS Buu part II? survival VS a good fight...

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by azenable

rem Goku VS Buu part II? survival VS a good fight...

He didn't fuse that time either, if I remember correctly. Besides, now we're in a tournament he personally came up with, with the stated goal of fighting strong opponents. You're kidding yourself if you think he's gonna back down now.

Vegeta will have his time next arc or something. This one is for Goku, plain and simple.

[azenable]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

He didn't fuse that time either, if I remember correctly. Furthermore, now we're in a tournament he personally came up with, with the stated goal of fighting strong opponents. He's not gonna back down from that.

Vegita will have his time next arc or something. This one is for Goku.

I said part 2 of the fight, where he and vegeta refused to fuse cause it won't be fair to Buu.

[Kazu-kun]

Yeah, sorry. Got things mixed up.

[Idealist 99]

Originally Posted by xeviouses

If its true then that blows. Do the writers have something against Vegeta winning and saving the day for once?

Vegeta has gotten something far better then that, he has Bulma.
A wife who still look young and so rich that Vegeta doesn't has to do anything for a living. He can train all day by using material that his wife provide for him.
Its sad that people often fail to see how lucky Vegeta really is, I marvel at Vegeta's luck everytime I watch Bulma in Dragonball and Dragonball Super.

While Goku is stuck with Chichi, forever.

[Blueknight78]

Originally Posted by Idealist 99

Vegeta has gotten something far better then that, he has Bulma.
A wife who still look young and so rich that Vegeta doesn't has to do anything for a living. He can train all day by using material that his wife provide for him.
Its sad that people often fail to see how lucky Vegeta really is, I marvel at Vegeta's luck everytime I watch Bulma in Dragonball and Dragonball Super.

While Goku is stuck with Chichi, forever.

this is a case of 50/50 because bulma also was lucky to get a "good" husband not a "garbage one" like goku, which don't kiss and even leave his family alone for years just to train, vegita is both a good husband and father while goku is ... goku the worst anime parent ever.

then chichi is not the only at "fault" she have all the reasons to break with him or even "cheat" if she wanted, because goku give enough reason for her to be bad with him.

Goku family is the "japanese currently family model" while vegeta is the "supposed to be family exemple" but which is almost impossible for japaneses.

Goku is the workaholic husband which prefer living in his "work place" and forget his family while chichi is the forever "alone wife" waiting for the "never come husband", the only difference is which currently none of then cheated yet to each other.

[Hoodspirit]

Originally Posted by Idealist 99

While Goku is stuck with Chichi, forever.

Goku upgraded to Caulifla. (soon)
Also I mean a relationship upgrade and not a character upgrade as I don't dislike Chichi. I just have the opinion that she is the wrong woman for Goku/he is the wrong man for her.

[Idealist 99]

Originally Posted by Blueknight78

this is a case of 50/50 because bulma also was lucky to get a "good" husband not a "garbage one" like goku, which don't kiss and even leave his family alone for years just to train, vegita is both a good husband and father while goku is ... goku the worst anime parent ever.

then chichi is not the only at "fault" she have all the reasons to break with him or even "cheat" if she wanted, because goku give enough reason for her to be bad with him.

Goku family is the "japanese currently family model" while vegeta is the "supposed to be family exemple" but which is almost impossible for japaneses.

Goku is the workaholic husband which prefer living in his "work place" and forget his family while chichi is the forever "alone wife" waiting for the "never come husband", the only difference is which currently none of then cheated yet to each other.

A good husband who left his wife and child to train in order to be super sayan, never pet his own son until he was 7 or 8, allowing Cell to reach his perfect form just to satisfy his pride, let Baddi brainwash him to fight Goku while killing innocent people, treating his son form the future like crap and never doing anything for a living.

As for Chichi, she knew what type of person Goku was from the beginning.
Remember that Goku never ask her to marry him, She wanted to marry him herself. Goku only married her out of his obligation.
If Chichi wanted a wealthy educated man who earn a lot of money then she shouldn't have married Goku in the first place.

At least Bulma accept Vegeta the way he is and doesn't try to change him Chichi always tries to mold Goku into her ideal version and never act supportive toward Goku .
Not to mention how badly she treat Goku's friends, Even Piccolo who died to save her own son's life.
Till this day, I doubt about Goku truly loving Chichi in a romantic manner while its pretty obvious that Vegeta and Bulma loves each other.

[Gan_HOPE326]

Originally Posted by Blueknight78

goku the worst anime parent ever.

Now, now. Goku is a bad parent but by no means the worst anime parent ever (which by the way says more about anime than it does about Goku...).

I mean, in terms just of parental abandonment, we have people like Ging Freecs from HXH and Lyza from Made in Abyss. We want to go REALLY fucked up, we have people like Ikari Gendo from Evangelion, Ragyo Kiryujin from Kill la Kill, and Medusa from Soul Eater.

Oh, and Shou Tucker from FMAB.

Anime is a freaky affair.

[BWTraveller]

I can't help but wonder that Goku actually likes being UI. I mean, in UI, he's not actually fighting. He's just sitting inside watching the fight: he completely detaches and lets his body do what it wants without any input. He really gets pretty much nothing but the physical sensations, and I can't help but think that'd be a little dull for a fighter.

[Kazu-kun]

Can't be helped. His brain is just too slow for this kind of battles between gods and such. Pushing the brain aside is all he can do to keep up.

[Gan_HOPE326]

Originally Posted by BWTraveller

I can't help but wonder that Goku actually likes being UI. I mean, in UI, he's not actually fighting. He's just sitting inside watching the fight: he completely detaches and lets his body do what it wants without any input. He really gets pretty much nothing but the physical sensations, and I can't help but think that'd be a little dull for a fighter.

I don't know if it's quite that passive. I'd imagine it's more like being a general of an army - impart strategical orders but don't care about the micromanagement. Instead of having to think how exactly he needs to dodge every single hit he just decides he needs to dodge this, go there, etc.

[Kyero Fox]

Originally Posted by GDB

He'd whoop her ass, easily. The implication Piccolo gave was that during their initial power up, Kefla was only just breaking past SSJB Goku's peak (possibly SSJBKK, hard to tell which he meant). Considering Vegitto is many times stronger than any non-UI version of Goku (not including him since they haven't really specified how this technique works in terms of power yet), that places him many times stronger than Kefla.

SSJB Vegito would decimate the entire tournament except for maybe Jiren because his Numbers ARE SOOOO BIG


SSJBKK Vegito would be crazy. Sadly that transformation would last 1minute.