Fate/Apocrypha - Episode 18 Discussion / Poll

[Klashikari]

Welcome to the discussion thread for Fate/Apocrypha, Episode 18.

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[Nivek von Beldo]

The chapter was pretty interesting, a different and unique take on jack the ripper legend(showing the social darwinist and dog eat dog nature of the victorian era, specially in london too) and how those 'forgotten' suffer, specially as childrens, and seems Jeanne knew that and she was not fooled that illusion but Atalanta(i don't know her legend but seems that was the thing affected her) did fall for it.

Sieg-Kun did get a big hit on reality but all of those will influence him in the way

[AC-Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Nivek von Beldo

The chapter was pretty interesting, a different and unique take on jack the ripper legend(showing the social darwinist and dog eat dog nature of the victorian era, specially in london too) and how those 'forgotten' suffer, specially as childrens, and seems Jeanne knew that and she was not fooled that illusion but Atalanta(i don't know her legend but seems that was the thing affected her) did fall for it.

Sieg-Kun did get a big hit on reality but all of those will influence him in the way

Short story is that she wasn't very loved by her father until the greek people considered her a hero.
Before that however, she was an unwanted child, because her father, the king, wanted a male heir.
Hence her wish of wanting a world where every child is loved by its parents.

[Dengar]

So these abandoned children started killing women for... reasons? Don't get me wrong, I liked the episode, but I do not quite understand Jack's backstory.

[Kakkou]

Originally Posted by Dengar

So these abandoned children started killing women for... reasons? Don't get me wrong, I liked the episode, but I do not quite understand Jack's backstory.

Spoiler for Jack's identity:

Because the true identity of Jack the Ripper was never known, the grail assigns abilities and traits associated with Jack the Ripper's legend to different people (or things) based on the class they're summoned as. In the case of an assassin like in Apocrypha, it's the malevolent souls of children. Some of those children may have killed in their day but it isn't certain that their victims were Jack's, or if Jack the Ripper ever really existed to begin with.

[Dengar]

So it's kind of similar to Sasaki Kojiro, who was just some nameless dude with an OP sword technique who was assigned that name? (not entirely similar, since Jack actually has a Noble Phantasm)

[Blueknight78]

ok i get confused a little, about atalanta, but for now what a really weak phantom jack have all it does is turn him in little scared kids to try to confuse the enemie in turn in his allie???, no combat no real damage??? if you don't get fooled by the illusions then jack is just doomed????, what a really weak phantom. now about atalanta, her army growing in purple this is a effect of jack power?? like she being a sort of "brainwashed by the illusion???, and jack really died so easy?? why i feel it's not just like that and jack spirit now is inside atalanta???, i really feel disappointed on that episode.

[AC-Phoenix]

Kinda unbelievable but...
Am I really the only one who saw the Medea/ Caster cameo or is just no one else talking about it?

[Belgaesh]

Originally Posted by AC-Phoenix

Kind aunbelievable but...
Am I really the only one who saw the Medea/ Caster cameo or is just no one else talking about it?

I saw it too, the Medea "Lily" version. We also saw Artemis.

[Ultragunner]

Originally Posted by Blueknight78

ok i get confused a little, about atalanta, but for now what a really weak phantom jack have all it does is turn him in little scared kids to try to confuse the enemie in turn in his allie???, no combat no real damage??? if you don't get fooled by the illusions then jack is just doomed????, what a really weak phantom. now about atalanta, her army growing in purple this is a effect of jack power?? like she being a sort of "brainwashed by the illusion???, and jack really died so easy?? why i feel it's not just like that and jack spirit now is inside atalanta???, i really feel disappointed on that episode.

well, to be fair, Assassin really doesn't have much combat ability to begin with. their strongest asset is presence concealment. In "Jack the Ripper" case, because they were children, not many would have suspected or detect their presence/killing intent...
...or at least that's how I see it

But hey, it's not like "Jack" was completely useless in battle, she was able to hold her own...for a few minutes in direct confrontation with other Servants there .
Sasaki Kojiro is just an anomaly

[AntonKutovoi]

Well, there’s also King Hassan, who can defeat other servants in battle without much problems.

[Wigwams]

Originally Posted by AC-Phoenix

Kinda unbelievable but...
Am I really the only one who saw the Medea/ Caster cameo or is just no one else talking about it?

How about gilles de rais in jeanne's flashback?

[bakato]

Originally Posted by Wigwams

How about gilles de rais in jeanne's flashback?

I take it you never played FGO.

[Twi]

Finally got around to reviewing and recaping it.

So, this episode was divided between Jack assaulting everyone mentally with the nightmare of her past and defining what is good or evil. You see, this incarnation of Jack the Ripper is an amalgamation of several thousand children turned into evil spirits that can only bring misery to those who tried to comfort them. London back then was really bad place, due to a lot of factors, and Jack was born from it then. Here’s a video to summarize it:

YouTube

https://youtu.be/QssUxO0SeeM

Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

Sieg, being painfully naive since he was born less than a month ago, gets hit the hardest since he can relate to it. His kind were born and then thrown away, so he relates to it and realizes that magi are the only assholes when Jack put him through the discount version of the cursed grail mud. Atalanta gets hit hard because it lines up with her past and she snaps too.

But Jeanne earned my respect. She made the hard decisions in the past and never put herself above the people she fought and killed. Shirou Amakusa may have felt unbridled hate and turned it into a plot to save the world, but Jeanne sees the world the way it is and that she can only do what she can without outright breaking the system.

[John117xCortana]

Jeanne was right, those children were already long gone. They can't be saved, you can only end their suffering out of mercy.

That being said....I can't help but sympathize with Archer of Red and Sieg too.

I don't how Jeanne can still love humanity after all the bullshit they've done and still continue to do even until this day. I mean I admire her faith but I also think we don't deserve it.

[Twi]

So, did she actually send them off to the afterlife and removed them from the Throne of Heroes? Or just erased them from existence?

[Kanon]

Jeanne is jealous of Astolfo. She looked so cute in that part.

I'm liking her more and more. What she did in this episode was tough, but it had to be done. She earned Atalanta's wrath in the process, so there will obviously be a fight against them in the near future, and I expect Jeanne to kill her.

Originally Posted by AC-Phoenix

Kinda unbelievable but...
Am I really the only one who saw the Medea/ Caster cameo or is just no one else talking about it?

Hard not to notice her, but her voice sounded so different from what I remember I thought she was a different person for a moment.

[Spectacular_Insanity]

I don't know what's so confusing to people.

Whether or not the children were actually Jack the Ripper or not, they were the incarnation/embodiment of the hatred and resentment of all the dead children from the Victorian era in Britain. Much like how Vlad Tepes was consumed by his own Dracula legend regardless of his own will, the children seemingly had no choice but to conform to the ideas of the legend of Jack the Ripper. I'm blaming the Grail for most of it, but it's not unreasonable to assume they started killing partly because it was in their nature as an Anti-Hero class.

You see a ton of this stuff in all of the Fate series. Most of the Heroes we've seen ultimately are consumed by their own legends and thus fall. Really, the only one to break that pattern was arguably Saber (Artoria) in the UBW True Ending.

I do love how Jeanne d'Arc is a lot more self-aware than most of the other Servants. I'm not sure if that's because she's a more introspective character in general, or if it's because of her status as a Ruler-class and so stands slightly apart from the normal rules of the Holy Grail Wars (like we saw with her seeming immunity to Jack's special attacks, though that might be because her Magic Resistance is rated EX).

[ReddyRedWolf]

Originally Posted by Blueknight78

ok i get confused a little, about atalanta, but for now what a really weak phantom jack have all it does is turn him in little scared kids to try to confuse the enemie in turn in his allie???, no combat no real damage??? if you don't get fooled by the illusions then jack is just doomed????, what a really weak phantom. now about atalanta, her army growing in purple this is a effect of jack power?? like she being a sort of "brainwashed by the illusion???, and jack really died so easy?? why i feel it's not just like that and jack spirit now is inside atalanta???, i really feel disappointed on that episode.

Just bad compatibility. Which is likely the reason why Amakusa Shirou sent her on this mission.


Jean can be counted on doing the right thing, killing Jack's wraiths of abandoned children. This to Atalanta is an unforgivable act as her wish is to save all children.

Now Atalanta is firmly on Shirou's camp on save humanity using the grail.

I must say this episode got me the feels that is rare for me. Atalanta's seiyuu was excellent here. It made teary eyed. Bravo!

Oh yes Giles was a looker back in the day.

Shakespeare is enjoying writing this too much.

[Wandering Soul]

I get that Atlanta loves children and this episode explained her wish, but even she should have realized that someone had to do something about those kids. They were'nt innocent kids that were going to laugh and play, they were just going to kill.

Nice to see cameos for Medea lily, Artemis, and Gilles de rais. It was also cute to see Jeanne get jealous of Astolfo. This episode as a whole really raised my respect for her.