A Song of Ice and Fire(novel thread)

[Proto]

In this thread we will be discussing about George R.R Martin book series a Song of Ice and Fire. The series so far consists of the following books

- A Game of Thrones
- A Clash of Kings
- A Storm of Swords
- A Feast for Crows

and the newly released

-A Dance with Dragons

Alongside with three prequel novellas.

Spoilers will be abundant and only tagged at the poster's discretion. TV only watchers are warned


However, A Dance with Dragons was just released recently, so some courtesy to fellow novel readers who have not yet read the book would be appreciated: comments about the fifth book should be preferably spoiler tagged for the time being.

[monster]

Originally Posted by Proto

and the newly released

-A Dance with Dragons

O snap, I've been waiting so long for this. Thanks for the announcement.

[Arabesque]

Well then, since the book is going to be released officially tomorrow, I'll make a detour to my local book store to pick it up. Sometime during the weekend I will be on hiatus while I dance the dance of death with a 10 foot fire breathing lizard

Spoiler for :

Also, I had been rereading the last 4 books, and had just concluded Feast 2 days ago. Unlike my earlier reaction to the 4th installment, I found myself being more lenient this time (because I knew that the next one is only days away? )

What I had originally thought of as being a side story seemed now as a good detour from the action packed, plot heavy Storm. Yes, I loved how the entire war played out and concluded in the 3rd book, how all the betrayals were at a fever pitch, how everything ran for and against what I wanted etc.

But after that, I was tired. Storm of Swords was a storm in the truest sense of the word. By it's end, everything and everyone was scattered and ruined. Arya was separated from her pack, Jamie came out a different man, alienated from everyone, Robb and the North lay in ruin (with his final fate being the cruelest in the entire series IMO), the failed invasion of the Wild Men, Jon lossing his loved one, becoming lord commander of the Night Watch, Sansa going from none happy place to none happy place, ending with an aunt being thrown out of a window, and Tyron well, being shat on throughout the book.

So it made sense to have a little break, both for myself the reader and the book itself. It couldn't ride on that whirlwind anymore, and the time came from the crows to eat the dead and the living to rebuild.

The problem though was that the book rather than have a connecting plot line, it was more like a collection of different stories, told from the less important perspective.

Sure, some of it was interesting, such as Little Fingers ploy to get the Vale under his fingers, or Jamie's journey to redemption (which I found to be the most fascinating character arc in the entire story, and one of the reasons why I like reading about him) and sure Sam's was pretty okay (except for the ... *cough*) but I just didn't find any of the rest up to par with the rest of the 3 books.

Sure, Ms.Cersei-how-not-to-rule-a-kingdom Lannister was pretty funny seeing how overly paranoid she was and running the whole country into to the ground (Dany doesn't really need Dragons to win at this point, just a semi component Captains and Generals) though I felt that while Martian was certainly trying to hammer in the point that yes, Cersei is a really bad person and a horrible ruler, made her a bit of an idiot in the process, which she isn't. Cersei is very cleaver, and able to play the game very well. I guess it could be argued that her pride and the death of her son drove her to madness, hence the decisions she made throughout the book, but still ...

Also, every chapter about the iron born and Drone was simply a skip for me. The spoiled princess of Drone going on her journey was idiotic, and by the end I wanted the Prince to tell her what exactly he was going to do so she could go and hang herself.

The Iron Born ... I have no sympathy for these savages. Nothing in any of the books tells me that these men can be considered humans, they are pirates with the blackest souls that should have been killed Tywin Lannister on Castmare style. That chapter on Fair Isle ...

Oh and Brienne ... right, I liked her, but hated how every time she ran into someone they wanted to stick their cock into her. By the end having her humiliated before supposedly dieing was just cruel.

But I'm done with that, let's get back to the main course

[Child_of_Sierra]

At long last, the 5th book is in my hands... will avoid this thread till after I finish it.

[LusterFlare]

The HBO TV series got me into A Song of Ice and Fire. Finished the first book a couple weeks ago, currently reading Clash. I'm getting through it pretty slow though, since I only read a chapter or two when I have free time.

[Tom Bombadil]

I don't have much time, so I looked up the chapters about Arya and read them instead. Since the novel is written in a PoV style and her story is pretty much independent, I don't miss anything. It reminded me why I love this series so much. So much detail, so much thought has been put into story to make the characters alive. Great read.

But the whole book was like 500-600 pages. How did Martin has so much to write? To much story spend on secondary characters like last time?

[Arabesque]

Well then, what I had initially planed was reading the book through the weekend, since I didn't really want it to clash with my anime watching habits.

Unfortunately, I caved in and started my reading of it today well then, this week is going to be one hell of a backlog for me

My impressions so far (read until chapter 4, page 70)

Spoiler for Read at your own risk:

As I open the book, I'm greeted by the title twice, just to reconfirm that yes, this book is in fact real and in my hands Also, the list of dedications is pretty long, and Martian made sure to apologize more than once, which while I'm sure is understandable, I think was a bit unneeded. As long as you produce an excellent read, you can take as long as you want GRRM!

Right so we start with the prologue

Spoiler for this is the prologue:

Our viewpoint character this time round is Varamyr Sixskins, the wildlings warg who used to be Mance Raider's Right Hand. Much like the one in Feast, I wasn't all that excited over this chapter. Yeah, it was pretty good start to the novel, being all grim and what not, but honestly, since I never really cared for Sixskins (other than him being a considerably powerful skinchanger) and coupled with his very apparent death (seriously, you could just tell he was going to day by page 2) I was pretty much just wanting to get this over with. Still, if there was anything Martian was great at, it's making cliffhangers. This was one pretty much clear what the conclusion was, but the execution was pretty boss

Then we move on to

Spoiler for 1:

Tyroin!

After running away from King's Landing, Tyroin found himself all the way in the Free Cities, where he drinks himself to death after learning the truth about his wife and killing his father (by the way, Martian's wit still amazes me ''Did the Father Above make you his Hand?'' LOL) until he gets so drunk that he starts thinking that he is Mario (no seriously, he tries to eat some mushrooms thinking he could grow taller)



I didn't like this chapter as much as the Cersei chapter in Feast, much to my amazement. Maybe it's the low key nature of it, or the after the fact tone it had, but I sort of thought it was pretty uneventful for a Tyrion chapter (till the end of course, where we do get to see a hint for whats to come)

Next up it's

Spoiler for 2:

Dany

Again, this is more of a contrast with Cersei's reign more than anything, so I was pretty interested in how it plays out. Dany is clearly having problems govern, which I think sets the way nicely for Tyrion to show up and become her hand I think (I haven't read further to see if this is the case or not) but the most exciting part of the chapter is once again, the cliffhanger. Chilling stuff, and by the time you realize what's what at the end, the entire chapter becomes less of a Daily ruling chapter, and more of a set up for what will be the fate of the Dragons.

Next up are Jon's and Bran's chapters, so going back into burring my head ...

[Proto]

Yep, Martin's books normally have a slow start, but they get really really good the further you read into them. I just finished reading Bran's chapter and its getting chilling, in more ways than one.

[Tom Bombadil]

Originally Posted by Proto

Yep, Martin's books normally have a slow start, but they get really really good the further you read into them. I just finished reading Bran's chapter and its getting chilling, in more ways than one.

I have this strange hope that Bran will take Meera for his wife. They will make a fine couple, then he is 10 and she is 6 years older, but give it 10 years and it won't matter, right?

[Arabesque]

Originally Posted by Proto

Yep, Martin's books normally have a slow start, but they get really really good the further you read into them. I just finished reading Bran's chapter and its getting chilling, in more ways than one.

Yep got through to that chapter. And here I thought the end to Dany's chapter was chilling

Originally Posted by Tom Bombadil

I have this strange hope that Bran will take Meera for his wife. They will make a fine couple, then he is 10 and she is 6 years older, but give it 10 years and it won't matter, right?

Not in this world at least when you have Brothers screwing sisters and making faux heirs, 7 year olds marrying 16 year olds, theirs will look normal by comparison!

But by the point I'm reading in the book, the two aren't really in a place to start any flames, romantic or otherwise ...

Progress: Page 218 (Chapter ... 17 I suppose?)

Spoiler for 4:

Right, this chapter ... lol?

This is our first look into what Sam had gotten Jon into. Looking back at it, Jon started the books without any hopes of rising high in Winterfell, and Cat had made sure that he was never going to endanger her offspring claim. And yet, a year later, her he is, Lord Commander of the Night Watch, while Robb had his head cut off and sewed with Grey Winds head instead, Sansa hiding, Arya on the run, Bran a cripple, and Gods know where Rickon is. Oh and cat is a rotting walking zombie. Funny world eh?

Of course, the highlight this chapter was that there was a Giantslayer, and he seems to have made a habit of mocking Jon and trying of getting into a fight with him. Jon is obviously much better than that, so he just brushed him off.

But the real spotlight had to be Stannis. Boy, what a tsundere.

His lordship seems to have taken a liking to you Lord Snow

I could tell. He only threatened to behead me twice

:>

This was another slow chapter, but pretty eventful I thought. We got to see our first true glimpse into what was it like to be the Lord Commander, though winning the vote was the first hurdle for Jon, and now he must win the men who didn't vote for him. Also pleasing Stannis while he's at and his bipolar tendencies of cocking him food a second and then trying to kill him the next

Spoiler for 5:

Are we there yet?

Again slow chapter, but I thought that this time we got a much interesting middle than end. Coldhands and Summer being the two who got the spot light this time, and Summer going through the fallen Night Watch men was ... disturbing to say the least ... especially to the implication of who he ate T_T ...

But yeah, Coldhands is no pushover. The guy killed three men without any scratches on scarf, and even winter is a breeze to the guy. Can even go on without food for days.

Spoiler for 6:

Background info on our old friend, Lord Varys of Kings Landing. Also, many tales of lost love.

It was okay, I guess, but it felt more like a set up chapter with some development for other characters.

Will have more to say about the rest tomorrow, but I will say that for a dead man, Tywin has more effect on the story so far than any of the living lol

[Tom Bombadil]

Originally Posted by Arabesque

Spoiler for 5:

Are we there yet?

Again slow chapter, but I thought that this time we got a much interesting middle than end. Coldhands and Summer being the two who got the spot light this time, and Summer going through the fallen Night Watch men was ... disturbing to say the least ... especially to the implication of who he ate T_T ...

But yeah, Coldhands is no pushover. The guy killed three men without any scratches on scarf, and even winter is a breeze to the guy. Can even go on without food for days.

Spoiler for question:

Who may that be? It has been years since I read the last book. I re-read the part you referred to, but it is still unclear who it is.

Yes, I agree that chapter 6 is a slow chapter. Unfortunately there are a few chapters like that in the book. Sometime the strict PoV style of the story telling is a hindrance rather than a bless. To tell the story of what's happening, Martin must have someone there in the heat of things at that particular time, most time it gives the story more flesh and blood, other times we get what kind of food they ate or other useless space filling stuff.

I read the book by the characters in the order who I likes most, so Arya first, then Dany, then Bran, then Tyrion and Jon, and the rest in the end. After the main characters I really have very little motivation for some of the side characters, especially since I know what happened to them in the end in some other character's story. That's the disadvantage of the order that I choose, but still I think Martin could cut some part out.

[Gooral]

Spoiler for for those who hadn't finished ADWD book:

There is too much pointless talking here, descriptions, etc. Dany's chapters were a torture for me to read, 500 pages of reading how horny she is, wiping the bottoms of people that complained, spoiling the power she had by ignoring dragons and being helpless made me want to puke. If not for Barristan I would skip these chapters. Even Belwas was more interesting than her. Every non-Aria, Bran, Jon, Tyrion, Barristan, Davos, Mellisandre, Jaime chapter (and prologue and epilogue) was either bad or really bad. And by bad I mean boring, repetitive, annoying, etc. (not necessarily everything at once). Tyrion's chapters weren't that interesting either, although because he's a great character they were easier to swallow. Jon's chapter saved this book IMO.
Anyway, what really saved the book for me were Arya and Bran's chapters. Even though they've appeared only briefly it was theirs chapters that made me want to finish the book counting on seeing more of them (I intentionally didn't see how many chapters with them are in the Book).

And I agree that Aegon being alive wasn't the best move Martin could have done. It makes me think that other "Aegons" might appear (for example Lyana's kid, maybe even a girl assuming Jon isn't their kid or some Maester Amon's bastard grandson). It seems to me he added this plot twist for the sake of having a plot twist. Also I was annoyed by Tyrion's, Theon's and Dany's plot armors (especially Dany's). Even when they're in hopeless situations I know they will survive.

[Tom Bombadil]

Ibbenese whalers who reeked of blood and blubber.

Old Martin making a jab at the Japanese?

[Arabesque]

I don't think so. He likes Japan well enough, and the name doesn't really strike me as a jab.

Anyho, since I had my Internet go out on Sunday and wasn't any better yesterday, I had the perfect pretense to just get on with reading the entire 800 and so pages.

General comments (nothing spoilerish):

-It certainly started off feeling a whole lot like A feast for Crows, but by the end it felt more like A Game of Thrones.

-I'm sort of lost as to what to say about the events that transpired in the 5th book. A lot of stuff had happened, for sure, but I can't say that a lot of it was important or really advanced the plot from the end of Feast by much.

-In fact, I would say that at least the events in the 4th book at least had for certain POV advanced the plot, albeit in several different directions, here while we have a slightly more unified central routes to take (3 to be exact) it feels like they don't really amount to anything ...

Well do a character overview rather than a chapter by chapter later on.

Originally Posted by Tom Bombadil

Spoiler for question:

Who may that be? It has been years since I read the last book. I re-read the part you referred to, but it is still unclear who it is.

Spoiler for :

Originally I thought it was the one handed smith, but the more I read the book the more I remembered he died back in book 3, so I think it was a different NW. Oops

Originally Posted by Tom Bombadil

Yes, I agree that chapter 6 is a slow chapter. Unfortunately there are a few chapters like that in the book. Sometime the strict PoV style of the story telling is a hindrance rather than a bless. To tell the story of what's happening, Martin must have someone there in the heat of things at that particular time, most time it gives the story more flesh and blood, other times we get what kind of food they ate or other useless space filling stuff.

The problem is that we already had 3-4 books of build up and what not for these characters, so it doesn't help to have additional build up as well here.

Also, I have to say that a lot of this book felt very filler-ish. I mean

Spoiler for :

Tyrion plot line goes. No. Where. Seriously.

He's on a ship, running away from King's Landing. Then on a boat with Illyrio. Then he goes with Griff. Then he's Jorah's captive, going to Dany. Then he's in a city, talking with an old lady and suddenly he's not a captive and on a boat. Then he meets another dwarf. Then he becomes a slave. Then he gets to Meereen, and there are lions and stuff, and then he joins the second sons and he has a plan to do something and ... what? Where does it all lead to? I mean yeah, we get to learn:

-History about Varys and Illyrio

-Tyrion knows lots about dragons (which we already knew) and shares some of that info

-Who Griff and Young Griff are

-The upside of slavery (it's not different blah blah blah justifying blah blah blah it's not black and white etc.)

-that he went through trouble

But it feels so aimless without any direction other than the vague get to Dany goal. I guess that's how it's meant to be since Tyrion is aimless after the 3rd book and what he learns he has done and the betrayal he endured. But it doesn't stop at him either.

Quentin ... man, do I hate all Dorne and Ironborn chapters. So pointless. He starts off okay like all Dorne chapters do, but then he goes down the whole ''But I'm the hero in this story, I can't go back home unless I bring something'' and I laughed when Rhaegal turned him to crisp, because it was so obvious that would be his death.

I think that what annoyed me the most about him was that after he does get to Dany and present her with the marriage alliance, everyone he meets asks him ''why are you still here?''. The man is proven completely pointless not only from a meta perspective, but in universe as well. No one understands why he's there, and everyone just want him to leave already.

So what was the point?

Asha ... again, what? Why did she have more than one chapter here, I can't say. And then Victorian ... bleh.

Originally Posted by Tom Bombadil

I read the book by the characters in the order who I likes most, so Arya first, then Dany, then Bran, then Tyrion and Jon, and the rest in the end. After the main characters I really have very little motivation for some of the side characters, especially since I know what happened to them in the end in some other character's story. That's the disadvantage of the order that I choose, but still I think Martin could cut some part out.

I think Martin should've cut a lot out. The Ironborn and Drone PoV's for start.

Originally Posted by Gooral

Spoiler for for those who hadn't finished ADWD book:

There is too much pointless talking here, descriptions, etc. Dany's chapters were a torture for me to read, 500 pages of reading how horny she is, wiping the bottoms of people that complained, spoiling the power she had by ignoring dragons and being helpless made me want to puke.

Spoiler for :

As someone who liked Dany, I agree with you. This book made her into mini-Cersei. Her last chapter was such a chore to get through, and her being so spoiled and stupid ... ugh.

Originally Posted by Gooral

Spoiler for for those who hadn't finished ADWD book:

If not for Barristan I would skip these chapters. Even Belwas was more interesting than her. Every non-Aria, Bran, Jon, Tyrion, Barristan, Davos, Mellisandre, Jaime chapter (and prologue and epilogue) was either bad or really bad. And by bad I mean boring, repetitive, annoying, etc. (not necessarily everything at once). Tyrion's chapters weren't that interesting either, although because he's a great character they were easier to swallow. Jon's chapter saved this book IMO.

Spoiler for :

Ser Barristan was actually pretty cool, yeah. Getting to see what goes on inside his mind made me like the guy more than I originally had. He's a simple warrior, and understands what he is and what he needs to do, but always speaks the truth (I cheered when he defended Ned). Really cool guy, Dany didn't deserve him as her guard.

And well, I agree with you, but I would add the Cersei 2nd chapter as another good chapter, I think.

Speaking of repetitive, was I the only one who thought that someone was going to say that Words are Wind is their house words at one point from how many times that phrase is mentioned?

Originally Posted by Gooral

Spoiler for for those who hadn't finished ADWD book:

Anyway, what really saved the book for me were Arya and Bran's chapters. Even though they've appeared only briefly it was theirs chapters that made me want to finish the book counting on seeing more of them (I intentionally didn't see how many chapters with them are in the Book).

Spoiler for :

That's because they are the only ones who actually done something and reached their goals in this book. Griff started out, but who knows if he succeeds or not?

Originally Posted by Gooral

Spoiler for for those who hadn't finished ADWD book:

And I agree that Aegon being alive wasn't the best move Martin could have done. It makes me think that other "Aegons" might appear (for example Lyana's kid, maybe even a girl assuming Jon isn't their kid or some Maester Amon's bastard grandson). It seems to me he added this plot twist for the sake of having a plot twist. Also I was annoyed by Tyrion's, Theon's and Dany's plot armors (especially Dany's). Even when they're in hopeless situations I know they will survive.

Spoiler for :

Well, look. Dany is too busy fucking around (literally and figuratively) in Meereen, and were already more than half way through the series and she still hadn't gotten her horny butt over to the Seven Kingdoms, and when someone promised to take her there, she ignored them and flew on a dragon and spent her time doing nothing but thinking everything is perfect. And then she admits that she doesn't belong in Meereen (#-_-)

And we need to get someone to actually have a claim to the throne, otherwise it would be Tommen (Even though I think Ramsy lied in his letter, I don't think Stannis will win. Maybe the north, but other than that ...) so rather than a plot twist for the sake of having one, it's more of a plot twist so that the story remains interesting, and the central conflict remains.

As for plot armor ... I don't think it worked well for Theon, imo

[Tom Bombadil]

@Arabesque

Great post and very interesting to read. I lol-ed at the "word is wind" part, and I can't put words better than this remark:

A lot of stuff had happened, for sure, but I can't say that a lot of it was important or really advanced the plot from the end of Feast by much.

About your remark on Tyrion

Spoiler for HEAVY SPOILER:

As Gorool already remarked, Tyrion's plot had too much twist for twist's sake. First he has to fight the stone-skins and almost drowned, then he lives through a storm where their ship is wretched, then he narrowly escaped the fate of being eaten by lions, then he actually managed to get free from the slavers, that's not counting other narrow escapes he had in previous books. What can we say, he must have nine lifes.

I think those chapters need editing, I'd go without chapter 6 at all, and all his walk with the bear from the brothel to the hotel is boring as hell, too. Martin painted a vivid cityscape, no doubt, but when it goes on and on it become dreary. I have no idea what's with the red priests on the ship, as they did nothing except to become fishfood.

But overall, it is still good, I think. Before reading the book someone in another forum remarked that Tyrion is a character who desired to be loved but found none. Those words came back to me with such power when reading the development of his relationship with Penny that I actually shed some tears. Most touching scene in the whole book, I believe.

About the Dornish prince and the ironborn chapters

Spoiler for spoiler:

Most pointless chapters in the book, right? I think Martin just want to have someone to release the dragons for the plot so he has to give him a chapter just in case people say this guy come out of nowhere. In fact, I like the way Martin did with the dragons, if Dany simply feeds the dragon and prepares some oversized saddles so one day she climb on it and take to the sky, that will be boring. But if the frog is going to be burned crisp, why should we care how he bought a ship ticket, who he met on the road, and what he eat, etc.
I skipped most of his chapters. I am amazed that some Chinese fan is translating his PoV chapters.

Ironborn chapter? I have this vague impression that someone is leading a fleet to find the dragon queen. That's all I need to know. If he turned out to be import in the next book (which I highly doubt), I'll come back and read his chapter.

As for Asha's chapter, the first of her chapter is pointless. But I don't have any complain about the chapters after she is captured, because they describe the state of Stanis's army quite nicely. That remind of me the first chapter of Davos.

Spoiler for Davos:

So the pirates forsake stanis and Davos has to get to White Harbor on his own. Some how that become a chapter.

Talking about Arya

Spoiler for Arya:

How did she killed the insurer. At first I thought that seeing the assasin's coin (like the one arya used to by her passage) gave the old man an heart attack. But that's not a very reliable method. Someone mentioned that since the old man took a bite of every coin he received, Arya can simply coat a coin with poison. That's sounds more likely. The priest actually toss the coin arya gained into the pool, which we know that it's filled with poisoned water. I don't remember whether there were other coins in the pool or not. Could Arya took one from the pool if there were?

About Griff

Spoiler for Young Griff:

I think something bad might come to the young Griff when they attack Storm End. But if he die, all his chapters become pointless, too.

About Rikon

Spoiler for Rikon:

I expect the fat lord will introduce him any moment in Davos's chapters. But Martin put a spin on that, too. Any speculation where he might be?

On Jon,

Spoiler for Jon:

I am puzzled by his decision to ride south. What can he achieve to go south? And what a cliff hanger Martin made! We are going to have Jon on four legs soon, and that won't work as a character (for one chapter, maybe). We all know that he won't stay dead for long. So how is Martin going to resurrect him? Using Melissandre or using the Others?

About Jaime's chapter,

Spoiler for Jaime:

I found it strange that Brienne mentioned the hound. My memory is fuzzy about previous books, but how did people know that the hound took Arya?

[Proto]

I'm only a third through (I only have one hour to read it every other day) but so far I haven't had any problem. Or maybe it's just that I don't really mind slow books.

[Arabesque]

@Proto

The issue isn't really that the book is slow, because once it does start to get going, then it carries that momentum till the end without ever stopping. No, the issue is that for a book that's as long as A Storm of Swords, it's ... well, rather uninteresting in parts?

Eh, I need to get into specifics here. I will point out that I enjoyed it and I thought that it was a great read, but I can't say that it's the best the series has to offer tbh.

Originally Posted by Tom Bombadil

About your remark on Tyrion

Spoiler for HEAVY SPOILER:

As Gorool already remarked, Tyrion's plot had too much twist for twist's sake. First he has to fight the stone-skins and almost drowned, then he lives through a storm where their ship is wretched, then he narrowly escaped the fate of being eaten by lions, then he actually managed to get free from the slavers, that's not counting other narrow escapes he had in previous books. What can we say, he must have nine lifes.

I think those chapters need editing, I'd go without chapter 6 at all, and all his walk with the bear from the brothel to the hotel is boring as hell, too. Martin painted a vivid cityscape, no doubt, but when it goes on and on it become dreary. I have no idea what's with the red priests on the ship, as they did nothing except to become fishfood.

But overall, it is still good, I think. Before reading the book someone in another forum remarked that Tyrion is a character who desired to be loved but found none. Those words came back to me with such power when reading the development of his relationship with Penny that I actually shed some tears. Most touching scene in the whole book, I believe.

I had spoken with a friend at length about Tyrion's role in this book, and he actually disagreed with me about the point of his story.

Spoiler for :

What we both agreed on was that the journey he takes is a representation of his mind set after killing his father and learning the truth about Tysha, he does become aimless due everything he knew and the person whom he had trusted the most had betrayed him, as well as his family being made of ingrates and the whole of King's Landing being a bunch of morons and added to that guilt from what he had done to his wife (constantly asking where do the whores go, almost like a mantra, sort of mocking his fathers final words and also wondering if he could find his wife there, and simultaneously making fun and hoping his wish comes true to at least meet her again). So him going from place to place without any clear goal in mind and whatnot is fitting with his mentality.

I said that the point was more of getting Tyrion out of his funk, what he thought was that the PoV chapters was so that we get a better understanding of the culture and world of the Free Cities, so instead of being just threads of information being presented to Dany, and give it as much history and building it up as an actual setting in the story much Martian had done with westeros over the past books.

Now, world building. Great and all, I support it, and in retrospect I agree with him that the Tyroin chapter are also meant to help us understand more of the Free Cities and make the setting bigger, as well as add more complexities to the entire Slave Trade, the politic web that Dany needs to deal with etc.

But where we differ is that ultimately, Tyrion end up going through the entire book going from place to place, until the very end where he does get back on his short stunned feet and gets back to the lovable imp we had all grown to love in the past. Sure, it fits with his mind set, it works as adding more to the structure of the Free Cities, but it's still a detour in the grand scheme of things, where Tyroin doesn't actually do anything till the next book. To me, it was disappointing Tyroin couldn't have snapped out of it by the half way point and gotten back on his groove earlier

Originally Posted by Tom Bombadil

About the Dornish prince and the ironborn chapters

Spoiler for spoiler:

Most pointless chapters in the book, right? I think Martin just want to have someone to release the dragons for the plot so he has to give him a chapter just in case people say this guy come out of nowhere. In fact, I like the way Martin did with the dragons, if Dany simply feeds the dragon and prepares some oversized saddles so one day she climb on it and take to the sky, that will be boring. But if the frog is going to be burned crisp, why should we care how he bought a ship ticket, who he met on the road, and what he eat, etc.
I skipped most of his chapters. I am amazed that some Chinese fan is translating his PoV chapters.

Ironborn chapter? I have this vague impression that someone is leading a fleet to find the dragon queen. That's all I need to know. If he turned out to be import in the next book (which I highly doubt), I'll come back and read his chapter.

As for Asha's chapter, the first of her chapter is pointless. But I don't have any complain about the chapters after she is captured, because they describe the state of Stanis's army quite nicely. That remind of me the first chapter of Davos.

Spoiler for Davos:

So the pirates forsake stanis and Davos has to get to White Harbor on his own. Some how that become a chapter.

Spoiler for spoiler:

Spoiler for :

LOL seriously? Man, that's dedication all right I wonder if the Japanese translators are the same.

I saw some people making jokes about how he fits in Dany's prophecy getting children, since he is the Sun's Son and there for has set in the east after coming from the west lol :P man the guy is going to be the butt of jokes everywhere in the fandom.

Originally Posted by Tom Bombadil

Talking about Arya

Spoiler for Arya:

How did she killed the insurer. At first I thought that seeing the assasin's coin (like the one arya used to by her passage) gave the old man an heart attack. But that's not a very reliable method. Someone mentioned that since the old man took a bite of every coin he received, Arya can simply coat a coin with poison. That's sounds more likely. The priest actually toss the coin arya gained into the pool, which we know that it's filled with poisoned water. I don't remember whether there were other coins in the pool or not. Could Arya took one from the pool if there were?

Bingo.

Spoiler for :

She traded one of the coins from the poison pool in the House with one of the targets coins, and since the coin is lethal, once he taken one bite, he was going to die. The kindly man explained that at the last page of her chapter.

Clever. A bit uncertain and unsure, but clever if roundabout nonetheless.

Originally Posted by Tom Bombadil

About Griff

Spoiler for Young Griff:

I think something bad might come to the young Griff when they attack Storm End. But if he die, all his chapters become pointless, too.

Spoiler for :

It's clear that both Griff and Young Griff are doomed to fail. Well, Griff anyway, since he's slowly dieing, and Young Griff is rushing into his doom like Joff was by being young and rash.

I think that Storm End wont need to go to battle tho. I think they will accept Ageon as their king, along with Dorne since he's really the only viable option at this point really, so he might not die ... yet

Originally Posted by Tom Bombadil

About Rikon

Spoiler for Rikon:

I expect the fat lord will introduce him any moment in Davos's chapters. But Martin put a spin on that, too. Any speculation where he might be?

Spoiler for :

Um, Osha (the wilding that was held captive at Winterfell) took him with her and Shaggydog to the mountains I believe, so he could be with a bunch of wildings.

Now why the reaction that Davo's had ... I'll get to that at the weekend, since my friend had told me something that I want to reread from the previous books first before saying it.

Originally Posted by Tom Bombadil

On Jon,

Spoiler for Jon:

I am puzzled by his decision to ride south. What can he achieve to go south? And what a cliff hanger Martin made! We are going to have Jon on four legs soon, and that won't work as a character (for one chapter, maybe). We all know that he won't stay dead for long. So how is Martin going to resurrect him? Using Melissandre or using the Others?

Spoiler for Jon's final chapter:

You have to give me another day and I'll get back to you, but right now ...

Originally Posted by Tom Bombadil

About Jaime's chapter,

Spoiler for Jaime:

I found it strange that Brienne mentioned the hound. My memory is fuzzy about previous books, but how did people know that the hound took Arya?

Spoiler for :

That's because that wasn't the actual Hound, but a fake who was raping girls and killing people while wearing the Hound helm after Arya left him to die at the end of A Storm of Swords.

As for why people knew that he had Arya, it's because back in book 3, the two were seen traveling together (heck, the place where he kidnapped her was from the base of the Brotherhood without Banners, and they had spread the word around that Stoneheart was looking for her so ...)

Also, Brienne was actually talking about Sansa, the older sister that Jamie sent her to find using Oathkeeper.

Anyway, it's clear that Brienne lied to Jamie to save Pod's life. She must've agreed to lure him into a trap where Stoneheart kills him or something.

To think he only had a single chapter in this book ... grr

Btw, I liked the DFC backstory about the teats mountains and how Ageon the Unworthy decided to over compensate for his wife Really anime like I thought

[Sabaku Kyu]

Well, I just finished the book and while I think the result was well worth the wait, it didn't excite me the way the GoT or SoS did. It's very much a plot-building book like Feast was, sort of a calm before the storm.

Spoiler for thoughts w/ some spoilers:

The book mostly centers around Jon, Daenerys and Tyrion. And to a lesser extent, Theon.

Like others said earlier, the book starts of kind of slow. Dany's chapters can be tedious since they mostly deal with her challenges as a queen and her daily life in court. The dragons are scarce for most of the story, but they do play an important part towards the end.

Jon's chapters, like Dany's, aren't as exciting as you would think either. It's mostly him dealing with the troubles on the Wall, namely the unruly wildlings pouring into the kingdom who are now his responsibility yet he has little idea how he's going to feed them or keep control of them.

Tyrion's wandering around the world, trying to reach Daenerys. His sharp wit and extraordinarily horrible luck (and fortune at times) make his chapters fun but at the same time I found myself missing him being in King's Landing. He's at his best when he's matching wits with his sister Cersei. He's gets unlikely companions in the form of Jorah Mormont and another dwarf (one of the ones who dueled at Joffery's wedding who turns out was a girl). I thought it was unfitting at first, but Martin makes it work.

Theon's is being held captive by Ramsay Bolton. His chapters are some of the best ones in the book, mainly due to the Boltons, who are just awesomely evil . Martin also does a good job of redeeming Theon's character and actually making him sympathetic again even after the atrocities he's committed. He get's caught up in a scheme to free Arya Stark (actually Jeyne Poole) from Ramsay in a daring escape which was great to read.

Arya, Bran, Jaime and Cersei have chapters too, but their roles are surprisingly small considering their importance in previous books, particularly Jaime's. Though we do find out Briene is alive (or at least moving around) in Jaime's chapter. There's a lot of new/lesser characters with chapters. Some are pretty good (Asha, Davos) others will make you yawn (Griff, Victarion). It's not so much their plots that are boring, but the characters themselves are hard to care about. It would've been better to have a few more chapters with the better known characters.


all in, all a great story that has me primed for the next book. Now all I have to do is wait another 5 years for Winds of Winter to come out.

Originally Posted by Arabesque

-I'm sort of lost as to what to say about the events that transpired in the 5th book. A lot of stuff had happened, for sure, but I can't say that a lot of it was important or really advanced the plot from the end of Feast by much.

Well I'd say the most plot advancing parts were

Spoiler for major spoilers:

-Aegon Targaryen revealed being alive and marching towards Storm's End with the Golden Company

- Manderly realizing Rickon is alive (meaning he has claim to Winterfell) and sending Davos to retrieve him

- The Night's Watch betraying Jon Snow

- Dany finally taming Drogon (and probably using him and the other dragons to reunite all the Dothroki khalasars that split after Drogo's death by the looks of it)

- Winter officially arriving in the epilogue


Some speculation: Rob Strong, having an uncanny resemblance to a certain 8-foot-tall knight we all know (and when I say "uncanny resemblance" I mean he's 8 f**king feet tall) has been placed in the Kingsguard and will be Cersei's champion for her trial. That's all well and good for Cersei, too bad for her she doesn't realize that Oberyn's three slightly psycho daughters are on their way King's Landing. They probably won't be happy when they see a knight resembling the giant who killed their father, raped their aunt and smashed their baby cousin's head against a wall walking around. It could go bad for Cersei.

[Tom Bombadil]

@Arabesque

I agree with your view on the purpose of Tyrion's journey.

I lurked around the westeros forum and was shock about one thing that I missed during the reading.

Menu for a feast (Spoiler for Lord Manderly, a.k.a. the fat lord).

[Proto]

Just finished the book... I'm through-fully satisfied with it, and got really nothing to complain about.

Spoiler for book 5:

After Kevan's Lannister death in the epilogue, I guess this marks for good the beginning of the end of house Lannister. They got no one capable enough anymore. Jaime is not really as much of a leader as he is a soldier. Cersei doesn't even fit into the equation. Myrcella is too young, and Tyrion has been disgraced forever in the eyes of their family. If things keep like this the only things Danerys will have to care about when she returns are the Tyrell and the Ironborn.

Poor Kevan. I sort of liked him.

And I for one I'd like Martin to kill John for good, just for the shock factor. We know he has the balls for it after Ned and Robb.