Claymore Chapter 119

[Elandyll]

Originally Posted by Dj0rel

There are also 0 evidence that she's alive. Whoever there are also 0 things that imply that she's alive while there are 2 things that imply she's dead

Neg. A monologue of Riful praising Renee for doing the right thing (for herself) does not imply she is dead.
A rock does not imply she is dead either.

Jean and Flora had no backstory either. I don't see you calling them useless characters. In fact, Renee has a much more interesting personality than either of those.

Lol. What personality? The short dialogue that Flora had with Clare made her 100x more personable and relatable to the reader than 3 or 4 chapters with Renee (again, completely useless, specially if she is dead now - which I do not believe to be true).

Fine, I'll spell it out for you. Priscilla was actively trying to kill Irene. Miria was slashed by a bunch of warriors that were trying to fake her death. Priscilla could sense yoki therefore she had better chance to know that Irene wasn't dead unlike organization's men who cannot sense yoki. Therefore Miria's survival has more sense than Irene's. If you complain about how did Miria survive and never asked yourself how did Irene survive then that's double standard.

Irene survived because Pris actually didn't mean to kill her, just swat her out of the way. You said it yourself (again, thanks for the help) that Pris could easily sensed if Irene was still alive, hence the easy explanation: Pris didn't really care.
You also mix up the warriors intention (that changed mid slaughter with Miria) with what the author portrayed and showed. I even forgot that within a few dozen pages he did the same thing -again- with Raftella. Point made (and I'm far from being the only one complaining about this it seems).

There's no proof that she would have died if there was a healer like Cynthia nearby to heal her wounds. Besides her wounds were much more severe than Cynthia's. She was missing a lots of vital organs while Cynthia only lost her arms and legs.

Wrong. Cynthia mentioned having also lost internal organs. Sigh.

The same way Clare would have been caught by Riful in Clare couldn't sense yoki. Take a look at the page 28 of chapter 71. Riful makes a horizontal slash and Clare dodges it because she could sense it coming and on the very next page Clare dodges more attacks which means Riful could have hit her multiple times (in your words, she would have found a single ant in a huge forest if the and hadn't been dodging her ). It would be impossible for Renee to do the same because yoki suppressant pill also disables one's ability to sense yoki. So the answer to your question is: Riful makes a sweeping slash, Renee doesn't sense it coming because she is on YSP and Renee ends up sliced in half.

That's nice to invent story that hasn't been shown and has probably not happened isn't it?

The distance was obviously small enough for Riful and Duff to talk to each other. Riful should have no problem covering that distance in a blink of an eye. And Duff never fully lost the sight of Renee.

Again, not shown, so for all we Know, Renee is alive (not that I care, it's just about what's known and what's not)

After that you can fantasize all you want about what may or may not have happened in between chapters and frames /shrug

[Dj0rel]

Originally Posted by Elandyll

Neg. A monologue of Riful praising Renee for doing the right thing (for herself) does not imply she is dead.

Yes it does. Plus the fact that she hasn't returned to the organization implies that she's dead too.

Originally Posted by Elandyll

Lol. What personality? The short dialogue that Flora had with Clare made her 100x more personable and relatable to the reader than 3 or 4 chapters with Renee (again, completely useless, specially if she is dead now - which I do not believe to be true).

Renee's irritable personality is 100x more interesting and original than that "good leader, just like Miria and Jean" cliched personality we got from Flora.

Originally Posted by Elandyll

You also mix up the warriors intention (that changed mid slaughter with Miria) with what the author portrayed and showed.

You obviously didn't know what their intention was. If they wanted to kill her they would have just cut her head off. Miria was completely incapacitated. One strike and it's over. Instead they just made an unnecessarily huge mess to cover for the fact that she's alive.

Originally Posted by Elandyll

I even forgot that within a few dozen pages he did the same thing -again- with Raftella. Point made (and I'm far from being the only one complaining about this it seems).

Obviously, killing Raftella wasn't their top priority. Incapacitating her was. She was armed and could just start killing them all if they didn't jump her in time. Besides, there's no way a high ranking warrior would die from just that.

Originally Posted by Elandyll

Wrong. Cynthia mentioned having also lost internal organs. Sigh.

Still, she didn't lose her whole lung, spleen and God knows whatever else is missing here. Plus it was made perfectly clear that Cynthia indeed would have died if Yuma hadn't intervened.

Originally Posted by Elandyll

That's nice to invent story that hasn't been shown and has probably not happened isn't it?

It has already happened once in ch71 pages 28-29. There's no reason to show the same scene with a slightly different outcome twice.

Originally Posted by Elandyll

Again, not shown, so for all we Know, Renee is alive (not that I care, it's just about what's known and what's not)

This was flat out shown. Riful and Duff were talking while Duff was chasing Renee.

Originally Posted by Elandyll

After that you can fantasize all you want about what may or may not have happened in between chapters and frames /shrug

Sometimes you need to put two and two together order to understand what's really going on and not just wait for every piece of information to be served to you on a silver platter. This isn't Naruto.

[fraktur]

@Nixl

Replying because Elandyll isn't going to:

Well the 2 pages aren't really comparable but let's do it anyway:
First off I'm sure that an assistant drew the background in the "recent panel". And yes I'm sure he drew "more Items" but definatley not with more details. The plant and the grass you're talking about are 2D without any shadows. The trees have some shadows but compared to the Clairepanel (cp from now on...) they indeed lack details. You're saying that they are just too dark but overall it's the lack of contrast. The trees in the cp also have really dark parts but they are more differentiated because they also got really bright parts where the light would hit them in reality or where the roots infront of the trunks. The whole shading is more thoughtout and so it gives the trees a realistic feeling: I'm sure the trees in the cp are birches as the shadows indicate the characteristic patterns their logs have. The trees in the Priscillapanel (pp).. well because of the lack of detail i'm not sure if they are birches... Every time one of us did this "gray in gray" thing, like that in the pp, in "artschool" our teachers would indeed call it a muddy mess. We did this when we were to lazy or were in a hurry and just shaded for the "sake of it" and I'm sure that was also the case here.

the mainproblem of the pp isn't just the background it's the panel as a whole. More specifically the lack of relationship between the background and characters: Priscilla and Riful aren't standing on the ground they are just "there". They are completely disconnected from the ground. If yagi had drawn a few shadows under their feet this problem could have been avoided. The different Style in which background and characters also ads to this problem. Priscilla and Riful just stick out which is simply not the case in the panel of his former style. It's more well rounded and "complete". So objectively the whole cp is better than the pp.

You also said that his style was plain and simple but actually it's the other way around (beware that simple doesn't mean shitty!): He rarely even shades his characters now. Still the characters look better now because he refined his style (especially the older characters like Claire and Miria). But he still can't draw faces in perspective: 3/4 portraits, and backs of heads (mostly Tabitha but everyone with hair that doesn't "cover the head" can qualify). Before replying keep in mind that I was about to drop Claymore as the Theresa arc started (the art was one of the reasons). I don't feel the way now because I don't really care about backgrounds and I know that sometimes backgrounds would just kill the scene (= i support white backgrounds if neccessary). To put it like Galatea: I can overlook some things, but I'll still state that they aren't as good if they aren't.

[creb]

I thought Yagi drew Claymore entirely by himself. Or at least, that's what I was lead to believe several years ago.

[Gooral]

Originally Posted by Dj0rel

This was flat out shown. Riful and Duff were talking while Duff was chasing Renee.

At the time Duff was shouting he was already losing sight of Renee and she was barely visible. Until Riful would get where Duff was with the speed advantage Renee had he would lose the sight of her so unless Riful would land far away from Duff in the direction Renee was heading she would not spot her. And she surely would try to land as near Duff as possible since it was the best bet to be as close to Renee as possible. Hence me saying that Riful couldn't kill Renee unless she was lucky. Renee didn't need much distance advantage seeing how Clare could hide just under Riful's nose.

As for her monologue, one can see it as an implication of Riful killing her and the other of her praising her decision in a hopeless situation. As for her not going back, again, look at Irene's example. Escaping near death situations can change someones perspective drastically and even though Renee planned to report to the organization before she was caught, after Destroyers awakening, Riful chasing her and patrolling the area for all she knew and Priscilla on the lose, a lonely warrior far away from HQ could prefer waiting and later it would be harder to go back because of other reasons. There are of course many other explanations to that, this is just an example.

[Elandyll]

Originally Posted by Dj0rel

Yes it does. Plus the fact that she hasn't returned to the organization implies that she's dead too.

Because obviously after the destroyer sending shards everywhere with lol cats and other shenanigans, her circumstances couldn't be different right?
I'm done with that, just know that your opinion doesn't make you right, and until clarification if it ever comes out, there is no certainty period, as much as you want to make it sound.

Renee's irritable personality is 100x more interesting and original than that "good leader, just like Miria and Jean" cliched personality we got from Flora.

If you say so Again, your opinion, others see things differently.

You obviously didn't know what their intention was. If they wanted to kill her they would have just cut her head off. Miria was completely incapacitated. One strike and it's over. Instead they just made an unnecessarily huge mess to cover for the fact that she's alive.

You again miss the point by a mile (I'm talking mostly about the author's representation), but that's ok, you seem to be intent on doing just that.

Obviously, killing Raftella wasn't their top priority. Incapacitating her was. She was armed and could just start killing them all if they didn't jump her in time. Besides, there's no way a high ranking warrior would die from just that.

Same thing about the author's representation, leading us to believe the org wanted her dead, and that there would be no reason they wouldn't know how to kill a downed warrior.

Still, she didn't lose her whole lung, spleen and God knows whatever else is missing here. Plus it was made perfectly clear that Cynthia indeed would have died if Yuma hadn't intervened.

That's the whole point isn't it?

It has already happened once in ch71 pages 28-29. There's no reason to show the same scene with a slightly different outcome twice.

Yet you invent story because it's convenient to you and your version.

This was flat out shown. Riful and Duff were talking while Duff was chasing Renee.

Wrong (again along with you saying that Cynthia had only lost arms and legs), Duff said he couldn't keep up and lost her. cf chapter 91 pg 20.

Sometimes you need to put two and two together order to understand what's really going on and not just wait for every piece of information to be served to you on a silver platter. This isn't Naruto.

And this isn't your little personal fantasy either. You are making things up with elements that are not even remotely implied, just because it fits with your little version.
Whereas Irene's death was -clearly- implied (but not shown, which leaves room for conspiracy theorists), Renee's death is not only not shown but not even remotely clearly implied at all. The only straw the fans of this version cling to is a Riful monologue that could go either way in the first place.

[creb]

Personally, I have to agree, as much as it pains me, since I think Renee was one of the ugliest Claymores Yagi has drawn. Shallow? Sure. But, please tell me you'd be reading this manga for years if all the girls were replaced with ugly women.

I don't think Renee's circumstances were nearly as clear as...Irene's. I think, in this case, it's highly likely she's alive, but at the same time, like so many other things, I wouldn't be surprised if Yagi never brings her back into the picture as I don't see any need for a third party Claymore to be used as a vehicle of information to bring Clair and Raki back together at this point, seeing how the story is unfolding. It's possible, at the time, Yagi thought the story was going in a slightly different direction when he introduced the whole Renee-Raki subplot.

Thus, even if Riful didn't kill her, Renee is effectively 'dead' I think, as I doubt we ever see her again.

[yononaka]

Just curious, does anyone among the debaters actually care whether Renee is dead or not?

Originally Posted by Dj0rel

The "a character should have died but didn't" routine was the backbone of this manga since the very first chapter. The only thing that changed are the stakes. Considering how much stronger the characters got, they need to be put in greater danger in order to create tension. You say Miria, Helen and Denenve should have died. I say by the same logic, you should be complaining that they didn't die on that AB hunt in Paburo mountains. Also, by the same logic, Clare should have died in Rabona.

This reminds me of my thoughts ages ago, when the anime series ran:

Originally Posted by yononaka

A good anime relative to everything that's out there, but unsatisfying for me personally. I was hoping for something more serious, but this became an exercise in take-backs. I greatly dislike take-backs in series that make it seem in the beginning that they aren't going to have (many of) them. (As opposed to series where take-backs are a given from the beginning.) I don't know why people were surprised about the ending, I expected something like that after take-backs started as early as in the first AB hunt. (Technically with Clare's awakening in the church, but I gave them that.) I might not normally root for something like The Org, but in this case I rooted for them to get all the cheaters eliminated

So yeah, one can definitely complain about that. I really only got back into Claymore (to an extent) because of some of the interesting speculative discussions around here that I happened to come across later on. To an extent, because I still don't like take-backs, and there's been no shortage of them.

Oh, and Gooral, would you mind spoilering that huge image of yours? (Not a fan of horizontal scrollbars )

[Elandyll]

Originally Posted by yononaka

Just curious, does anyone among the debaters actually care whether Renee is dead or not?

Actually not even remotely

I just think that her situation is not clear, and happen to think that there is a little bit more chance that she is alive rather than dead.
But she could be either way, it wouldn't bother me one bit.

The "she is dead" proponents who rely mostly on the Riful monologue also fail to explain why Yoki would not show her at all in those panels, it's not like Yoki is shy on gory details (if she was indeed dead).
They would probably argue that Irene's supposed death was not shown, but in that case there was a definite purpose to that: dramatic exposition.
The death was "implied" by a single frame (the forest), followed by Claire sensing something through her arm and sputtering a "uh? I felt ...".

Here, aside from Riful talking to herself like she would be to Renee (Renee not being shown at all), nothing (and the dramatic exposition wouldn't work anyway, there hasn't been any connection from Renee in the same way that Irene connected to Claire).

Now I'm likely off for a few days, with heavy workload calling me and all

[Gooral]

@Elandyll
You meant Yagi not Yoki I think. But I agree that Bear Yoki > Yagi .

@yononaka
Done.

[creb]

Do you blame Yagi though? For becoming such a softie?

By Awa303:

Spoiler for Poor Yagi:

Think she did this before we found out Miria was alive, so ignore that.

Spoiler for Poor, poor Yagi:

Spoiler for Poor, poor, poor Yagi:

[Claymore!]

Originally Posted by yononaka

Just curious, does anyone among the debaters actually care whether Renee is dead or not?

Not really. she was one of the ugliest characters that yagi has ever drawn (other than Undine and Rachel) And she was really useless because we already have two "eye" warriors (Galatea and Tabitha) and we also have a really fast claymore (Miria). So she really doesn't have a point in the story. except having really ugly hair

[Nixl]

Originally Posted by fraktur

@Nixl

Replying because Elandyll isn't going to:

Well the 2 pages aren't really comparable but let's do it anyway:
First off I'm sure that an assistant drew the background in the "recent panel". And yes I'm sure he drew "more Items" but definatley not with more details. The plant and the grass you're talking about are 2D without any shadows. The trees have some shadows but compared to the Clairepanel (cp from now on...) they indeed lack details. You're saying that they are just too dark but overall it's the lack of contrast. The trees in the cp also have really dark parts but they are more differentiated because they also got really bright parts where the light would hit them in reality or where the roots infront of the trunks. The whole shading is more thoughtout and so it gives the trees a realistic feeling: I'm sure the trees in the cp are birches as the shadows indicate the characteristic patterns their logs have. The trees in the Priscillapanel (pp).. well because of the lack of detail i'm not sure if they are birches... Every time one of us did this "gray in gray" thing, like that in the pp, in "artschool" our teachers would indeed call it a muddy mess. We did this when we were to lazy or were in a hurry and just shaded for the "sake of it" and I'm sure that was also the case here.

the mainproblem of the pp isn't just the background it's the panel as a whole. More specifically the lack of relationship between the background and characters: Priscilla and Riful aren't standing on the ground they are just "there". They are completely disconnected from the ground. If yagi had drawn a few shadows under their feet this problem could have been avoided. The different Style in which background and characters also ads to this problem. Priscilla and Riful just stick out which is simply not the case in the panel of his former style. It's more well rounded and "complete". So objectively the whole cp is better than the pp.

You also said that his style was plain and simple but actually it's the other way around (beware that simple doesn't mean shitty!): He rarely even shades his characters now. Still the characters look better now because he refined his style (especially the older characters like Claire and Miria). But he still can't draw faces in perspective: 3/4 portraits, and backs of heads (mostly Tabitha but everyone with hair that doesn't "cover the head" can qualify). Before replying keep in mind that I was about to drop Claymore as the Theresa arc started (the art was one of the reasons). I don't feel the way now because I don't really care about backgrounds and I know that sometimes backgrounds would just kill the scene (= i support white backgrounds if neccessary). To put it like Galatea: I can overlook some things, but I'll still state that they aren't as good if they aren't.

Perhaps, but for one to claim that the artwork had "gone to hell" is hyperbole in my opinion. I just do not see that as a valid expression, especially if the root of that statement is "it's true because I say so on the internet." I agree with you in regards to the fact that I dislike the shading particularly in page 6 and 7 of chapter 99 due to the fact that a lot of potential detail is lost. That to me, is the primary issue. There is so much shading or monotony of the color scheme to the point that it drowns out everything else.

However, in regards to the comment that "it had gone to hell" I disagree. The reason I bring up the objects is that Yagi has drawn forests multiple times. The difference between chapter 3 and chapter 99 is that that the amount of variable objects, as in the addition of weeds and flowers. To me that is a sign that Yagi is potentially beginning to increase the array of objects within the story. If anything, I think especially in the beginning of claymore Yagi reused a lot of shapes and objects that he memorized, especially with the characters (faces, hair, etc). He still does, but I think he is slowly adding more in. He practiced trees, his characters, and buildings, but as far as that goes I did not see much variation too early in the story. To clarify, I am not saying his previous work was worse because it was simple. Perhaps it would have been better to state that I thought Yagi had put himself into a box with the range of objects and or character models he was using. For me, it is bothersome when I feel like I have seen the exact same object again and again with no variation. For instance, even in chapter 99 the trees he drew were virtually similar to how he started drawing trees. Yagi has not changed the way he has drawn trees, but the difference appears to be the shading.

In all honesty, I do not particularly like comparing previous chapters with new chapters on the basis on whether one is inferior or superior. Yet, I do think it is notable that Yagi appears to be bringing in more variation with his characters(lips, hair, moles, etc) and environments (weeds, flowers, etc) alongside what he normally drew. I feel as though he is building upon his range. For that reason I cannot agree with the assumption that the art, "has gone to hell/south" just due to shading alone. While Yagi's choice of shading has changed, I do not think it can be ignored had he has improved in other respects.

Also, thank you for making a counter argument Fraktur. I appreciate your point and I very glad you gave your reason as to why you think the artwork is different.

[MalakTawus]

@Gooral

Lune is just a warrior with good strenght and a good "eye ability", there is NO WAY that the org would have sent her only eye in dangerous situations,at best she would have observed others fight from the distance......
...Irene would have been the new n.1, so it's 100% sure that if there was a difficult opponent to fight (not to observe from distance,lol) she would have been sent SURELY.
Just because the org didn't use to send warriors against strong ABs it doesn't mean that there was no possibility for them to change their mind (especially since the org underrated Priscilla A LOT!!!),so it makes perfect sense that Irene didn't want to take that chance.

And in the first place what makes you think she would become #1?

She was the strongest warrior alive,so it's 100% sure that she would have been n.1 until someone stronger showed up.....really,it doesn't take a genius,lol.

Going back to Renee though, why would she go back to the organization when she knew they've had nothing to stop neither Priscilla nor Destroyer who she met first hand

This is stupid.Exactly because the destroyer is that strong she should feel the need to report back to the org,afterall from her point of view,only the org has a possibility to come up with a plan in that situation.
Also Lune wasn't even sure if the destroyer was really stronger than Riful....and also Lune has absolutely no idea that Prissy went out of control!!!For all she knows,Prissy is still a little monster with absurd powers that for some strange reason is tamed by Raki.

She also let herself be captured, interrogated and was the trigger to Raciella's awakening

So what?It's not that the org knows what really happened,she could modify the story as she wants.

On the other hand Irene completed her mission, at great cost but completed it and knew that organization would be too weak to punish her so she might have gone back without worries. She just chose not to because she wasn't fit to be a warrior.

She also had the trauma to see her whole team killed under her command, Lune's situation is completely different.
Even Miria was destroyed after Pieta,the only reason she was able to recover is because she had friends left to help her....Irene had nothing, she was completely alone with her fear and her remorse.
And you want to compare Irene's situation with Lune??? Absurd....

As for what Clare said, it's funny you consider her words in such high regard when Riful couldn't find Clare being at point blank range.

LoL,the big problem in your logic is that it's OBVIOUS that even Claire knows Riful's ability very well (infact she is succesfully hiding from her),BUT she is still sure that almost surely Lune can't escape.....so yes, Gooral,when you say that it's very difficult for Riful to find Lune, you are OBJECTIVELY going against something that it's said very clearly in the manga itself (and also it's not said by an idiot character,so your version on that scenario is COMPLETELY weakened,lol).

And we're talking about the same Riful who couldn't catch even one ghost carrying one Claymore...

Think a bit more before you write. That character that escaped was NOT a normal warrior,IT WAS CAIRE!!!
As long as Claire focus only on escaping,it's VERY difficult even for Riful to catch her.It 's useless to try to catch Claire since she showed that she can escape quite easily even when she was left alone in front of Riful......but Lune is not Claire,and Riful knows very well that as long as she reach her target,Lune has no chance in hell to escape.
Also, Lune is running in armor in a forest,there is no way that she won't make any noise....and btw,when Riful decides to go to kill Lune, Lune is still in Dauf's vision!!!!!!!! And you call that a "safe distance"?????? Be serious......."safe distance" my ***!!!
Also if Lune wants to hide like Claire did, SHE HAS TO STOP RUNNING!!!!
But if she stops running Riful will know that something is off (she's VERY smart) since she doesn't hear anyone running in the forest (yes,i know it's difficult to accept,but you make noise if you run in the forest!A lot of noise if you consider that Lune is armored,lol....and we also saw that even idiot Dauf was good enough to catch Yuma before.....and Riful is surely better than him,lol).

Clare is more trustworthy than me when it comes to Claymore as you've put it but Yagi is more trustworthy than Clare and he has clearly shown us that Riful can't track down a cloaked Claymore if he's fast enough. And Renee was fast, Yagi made sure to emphasize it in chapter 81 (and also in chapter 91 where Renee has easily outrun Duff) and Clare had no way of knowing that.

Sorry Gooral,but you are 100% wrong AGAIN,lol.
When Claire makes that comment,she already knows that Lune is fast enough to outrun Dauf (she's not deaf,you know?)........but that doesn't stop her to give that judgment......

[murikibishii]

Originally Posted by Elandyll

I am rooting for a 5 way discussion in a mental dimension (in the cocoon) between Claire, Teresa, Ilena, Rafaela and Priscilla, so that everyone can get what they have on their chest out, and finally clear up some air

No offense dude, but mental mumbo-jumbo like that is the last thing we need more of. Let's just settle everything in the real world or it's going to suck bad.

About the background pic comparisons I have to say that the background in the Clare pic has perspective and feels alive and the one in the Priscilla/Riful pic is flat and dead. I don't really care about background art but in terms of these two pictures the winner is very clear and I don't see how you can think it's better in the P/R pic, Nixl.

As for the lack of deaths, I'm willing to forgive everything if Helen and Deneve get shredded by the resurrected warriors or by anyone really. Whoever neg repped me before will have to keep at it because I won't stop demanding their deaths after all the bs serial lucky saves those two got.

[Claymore!]

Originally Posted by murikibishii

As for the lack of deaths, I'm willing to forgive everything if Helen and Deneve get shredded by the resurrected warriors or by anyone really. Whoever neg repped me before will have to keep at it because I won't stop demanding their deaths after all the bs serial lucky saves those two got.

That is a pretty disturbing idea.
Helen and Deneve are some of the main characters. If either of them died it would be horrible. They are important to the story. They each have their own unique personality that can't be replaced. Helen is the fun-loving claymore who enjoys life (and likes apples ). Deneve is the cool, calm, and Intelligent claymore who had a sad past (not unlike all claymores) but we actually know what happened to Deneve when she was a kid. They have like opposite personalities but that is what makes them so important. They are best friends and it would be horrible if they died. There is no reason for them to die either. They are both fantastic fighters who have a lot of experience. Helen and Deneve are the best pair of claymores in the entire story. They cannot be replaced and the story would be lacking without them. Besides it will be really interesting to see Raki meet Helen and Deneve again . I just really want to see Helen's reaction, i bet she would be shocked and Deneve would remain calm. That is how they are, they are just two great characters and i'm really glad that Yagi made them so well.

I would add more to this more but i have Homework to do, but i think i said what i needed to.

[creb]

Originally Posted by Claymore!

That is a pretty disturbing idea.
Helen and Deneve are some of the main characters. If either of them died it would be horrible. They are important to the story. They each have their own unique personality that can't be replaced. Helen is the fun-loving claymore who enjoys life (and likes apples ). Deneve is the cool, calm, and Intelligent claymore who had a sad past (not unlike all claymores) but we actually know what happened to Deneve when she was a kid. They have like opposite personalities but that is what makes them so important. They are best friends and it would be horrible if they died. There is no reason for them to die either. They are both fantastic fighters who have a lot of experience. Helen and Deneve are the best pair of claymores in the entire story. They cannot be replaced and the story would be lacking without them. Besides it will be really interesting to see Raki meet Helen and Deneve again . I just really want to see Helen's reaction, i bet she would be shocked and Deneve would remain calm. That is how they are, they are just two great characters and i'm really glad that Yagi made them so well..

All of that just makes them the perfect characters to be killed so we can shed some real tears in here.

[Claymore!]

Originally Posted by creb

All of that just makes them the perfect characters to be killed so we can shed some real tears in here.

Thats not funny.
And you obviously missed my point. I was saying that they are just too important to be killed.

[carbontaxes]

Those two are in no way "too important" to be killed. What....so....ever. Those two were heroes of Pieta and helped mutually train the other ghosts since then and are elite rebel fighters. Right now (in 2011 or beginning of 2012) is absolutely ripe for both Helen and Deneve to be slaughtered.

Hell, if Miria is about to die or awaken, those 2 girls are more than ready for some sacrifice. It would be good writing for the majority of the ghosts to die on the way to the zombies sensing that something is weird in the vicinity of Rabona (The youki beacon that the Destroyer is generating) and of course naturally go over there to investigate. Rabona defense is going to be a tear jerker when Galatea dies/awakens, Miata probably awakens after Clarice is murdered, and so on.


Great stuff in store and I look forward to it.

[TheRussianMeatClob]

Helen needs to live but Deneve can die for the change it would bring Helen's character so instead of being the fool Helen can be the sarcastic snarky depressive rampant alcoholic.

Also Helen has yet to invent the apple pie therefore she can not die!